Important Message for the World of Warships Community

[Smegger213]

18 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

Yes, those 500 are vocal minority and we always listen to you ideas and gather feedback and sometimes we do changes based on your relevant feedback.

Unfortunately, I can't share you any data from our surveys. If we would decide to share any data, it would be done globally, either on DevBlog, or in the article like this particular one.

 

We do care what our customers want. We know, that some part of our customers doesn't want Submarines, but at the same time we have data, that some part of our customers want submarines and also are playing them.

 

Subs are not broken. DevBlog about Subs changes explained what exactly we just implemented to the live server. We had plenty data and implemented changes based on them. Subs are for rental, because they are still being in testing.

 

I detest this utter contempt for the player base.

So 500 plus players bother to go on a poll on the forums and say they hate subs in random battles.

Well, Wargaming, have you ever thought of a reasonable hypothesis of taking that poll, and scaling it up as a reasonable account of the feeling of the WHOLE player base.

Even if it is not totally accurate. It still gives a judgement on the overall response to subs in the game.

Only a minority will go on the forums and fill in such a poll.

But when 89.27% of 568 players say they hate subs in random battles, YOU SHOULD WAKE UP AND TAKE NOTICE WARGAMING.

 

Turning round and saying those 500 plus players are a minority, is just a stupid arrogant response.

I and many other long time players have quit the game over this issue, but you continue to push subs into the game.

 

But why am I even bothering to comment on here?

Wargaming, you do not give one hoot about your own player base.

You will continue to ram subs down our throats and suffer the consequences.

 

You will only lose more players in the long run.

Your loss Wargaming, not ours. 

[admiraldelorin]

3 hours ago, Smegger213 said:

 

I detest this utter contempt for the player base.

So 500 plus players bother to go on a poll on the forums and say they hate subs in random battles.

Well, Wargaming, have you ever thought of a reasonable hypothesis of taking that poll, and scaling it up as a reasonable account of the feeling of the WHOLE player base.

Even if it is not totally accurate. It still gives a judgement on the overall response to subs in the game.

Only a minority will go on the forums and fill in such a poll.

But when 89.27% of 568 players say they hate subs in random battles, YOU SHOULD WAKE UP AND TAKE NOTICE WARGAMING. 

 

Turning round and saying those 500 plus players are a minority, is just a stupid arrogant response.

I and many other long time players have quit the game over this issue, but you continue to push subs into the game.

 

But why am I even bothering to comment on here?

Wargaming, you do not give one hoot about your own player base.

You will continue to ram subs down our throats and suffer the consequences.

 

You will only lose more players in the long run.

Your loss Wargaming, not ours. 

Still wating for a ( slightly)  convincing argument that the sample is representative of the player base..   Your loss is my (our) gain..   :) 
I am sure the numbers will speak for them selves.. no matter the vitriol spewed here.. Why is limiting sub nrs necceesary? Because too many players want them ?   
 

When you are right surely somebody wil develop a battleship only game where you can go play and it wil be a tremendous result.
So basically you should support anything that furthers that cause.... I would thank you for it. 

 

[Smegger213]

8 minutes ago, admiraldelorin said:

Still wating for a ( slightly)  convincing argument that the sample is representative of the player base..   Your loss is my (our) gain..   :) 
I am sure the numbers will speak for them selves.. no matter the vitriol spewed here.. Why is limiting sub nrs necceesary? Because too many players want them ?   
 

When you are right surely somebody wil develop a battleship only game where you can go play and it wil be a tremendous result.
So basically you should support anything that furthers that cause.... I would thank you for it. 

 

Honestly don't know what you are trying to say with these statements.

[admiraldelorin]

On 11/12/2021 at 1:39 PM, Smegger213 said:

Honestly don't know what you are trying to say with these statements.

That is obvious.  You claim 500 players are representative for the player base, yet you have no acces to such data (the WG user base) so litteraly can not know, and bassically by law are not allowed to know.
(beyond what WG is allowed to let you use through the EULA)

So any argument based on that "survey" is as valid as the survey, NO value at all except that of the 500 or respondants  some 20% did not agree with you ? 
Lets put some perspective on things..  500 is about  3  % of  15.000, the players on line at one single moment on european server some afternoon..  That play the game as it is..  those 15.000 like it enough to spend the leisure time, valued higher then their working hours (school hours, for supervised under age players) . Let me set that at a value  of 1 US $ per minute.. that's easily ends up millions of US$ per day.  Mind you that the actual revenue that WG makes is a drop in an ocean vs the value (in time)  players spend. The wiser simlpy do not spend their time doing your survey , or reading through forums full of nonsense. So the others care enough to spend millions yet not enough to do your survey..

 

If submarines are such a bad idea it would become clear much faster, when you support their developent and addition in the game.. if no one  plays them then you are absoltuly right.. 

When you do not support their addition then you are afraid you are wong..  or you already know you are wrong but are just trolling and bashing to see if you can get your way anyway..... good luck with that..  

Maybe you underdstand why as you say this " this utter contempt for the player base."   happens....   exept it is not "utter contempt" it's  just the mumbers ....  sorry.
   

[StaK_1980]

I didn't fully finish the post but I rushed here to take a look.

Did I miss it or not one CC / ex-CC commented here about this update?

[416taylor]

On 11/11/2021 at 3:01 PM, YabbaCoe said:

Of course with everything, there is a question of the effectiveness. As I mentioned, some ships are much better at countering others, some are rather ineffective at countering certain ship. Of course the interaction of CVs against other ships is very different to any other interaction in our game, but still there are options how to deal with that. 

 

Well, I don't think Submarines are OP, as their influence in the entire battle is kinda limited. Like with every single ship, Submarine can play very well to be first in the table, but how many times have you seen that? Submarines can add value towards a victory in the battle, but they are not the main decisive factor that contributes to the victory. They can be strong in certain situations, but also there are plenty of ways how to counter them. We are trying to achieve the situation when the interaction with other classes would be good enough, Sub would be able to do something at least in the battle, but still can be punished for mistakes and the vast majority of ships can damage it quite effectively. 

Do you really think that I'm going to a battle with all signals and other flags mounted . risking to be sinked by hoaming torpidos from somewhere you don't know. put them 6 feet under soil.

[Smegger213]

17 hours ago, admiraldelorin said:

That is obvious.  You claim 500 players are representative for the player base, yet you have no acces to such data (the WG user base) so litteraly can not know, and bassically by law are not allowed to know.
(beyond what WG is allowed to let you use through the EULA)

So any argument based on that "survey" is as valid as the survey, NO value at all except that of the 500 or respondants  some 20% did not agree with you ? 
Lets put some perspective on things..  500 is about  3  % of  15.000, the players on line at one single moment on european server some afternoon..  That play the game as it is..  those 15.000 like it enough to spend the leisure time, valued higher then their working hours (school hours, for supervised under age players) . Let me set that at a value  of 1 US $ per minute.. that's easily ends up millions of US$ per day.  Mind you that the actual revenue that WG makes is a drop in an ocean vs the value (in time)  players spend. The wiser simlpy do not spend their time doing your survey , or reading through forums full of nonsense. So the others care enough to spend millions yet not enough to do your survey..

 

If submarines are such a bad idea it would become clear much faster, when you support their developent and addition in the game.. if no one  plays them then you are absoltuly right.. 

When you do not support their addition then you are afraid you are wong..  or you already know you are wrong but are just trolling and bashing to see if you can get your way anyway..... good luck with that..  

Maybe you underdstand why as you say this " this utter contempt for the player base."   happens....   exept it is not "utter contempt" it's  just the mumbers ....  sorry.
   

I did not say 500 players are a representative for the player base.

I said 500 players could be a representative of the feeling of the player base.

I did not say its a fact.

 

I was saying that if you take that survey as an example of player feeling.

When over 89% of 571 players say they do not enjoy subs in random battles, Wargaming should wake up and take notice.

 

Its a fact that players that put stuff on the forums are a minor amount of the player base.

But Wargaming should NOT ignore the fact that that a good number of players do not want subs in the game.

You only have to go through the forums to see that far more players answer posts saying they hate subs, than those that say they love subs.

That is why I said that Wargaming has an utter contempt for its own player base.

 

In the end we all know that Wargaming will ignore any negative feedback, and keep pushing subs into the game, no matter how much they will destroy the player experience.

Trust me when I say that if subs stay in the game, the number of players playing will go down.

 

[admiraldelorin]

On 11/18/2021 at 9:49 AM, Smegger213 said:

I did not say 500 players are a representative for the player base.

I said 500 players could be a representative of the feeling of the player base.

I did not say its a fact.

 

I was saying that if you take that survey as an example of player feeling.

When over 89% of 571 players say they do not enjoy subs in random battles, Wargaming should wake up and take notice.

 

Its a fact that players that put stuff on the forums are a minor amount of the player base.

But Wargaming should NOT ignore the fact that that a good number of players do not want subs in the game.

You only have to go through the forums to see that far more players answer posts saying they hate subs, than those that say they love subs.

That is why I said that Wargaming has an utter contempt for its own player base.

 

In the end we all know that Wargaming will ignore any negative feedback, and keep pushing subs into the game, no matter how much they will destroy the player experience.

Trust me when I say that if subs stay in the game, the number of players playing will go down.

 

500 players can only be represetantive IF the demograpics correlate. Your "could" just means that. Any group could, including the 1000 of which all 100%  WANT submarines.   A "good number" is not a "fact",  sorry.

"far more players"... ?   most never get to the forum , let alone post. I would hope that Wargaming is imune to "Tabloid" and "fake news" arguments..  Yelling  does not make an argument....    

"In the end we all know that Wargaming will ignore any negative feedback, and keep pushing subs into the game, no matter how much they will destroy the player experience." 

 

Are you saying that they have been very successful becasue they ignored negative feedback? If that contributed to their success sofar, I would suggest they just keep doing what they have been doing then.  

"Trust me when I say that if subs stay in the game, the number of players playing will go down."     I don't trust fake arguments .. or dramatized opinionated arguments.   

 

In the end I hope Wargming will ignore any and all fake argument and does what serves continuity for them most.
 

[tsounts]

How about the Russian cvs that seem to be way over powered compared to the other nations' carriers?

[Zemeritt]

15 hours ago, tsounts said:

How about the Russian cvs that seem to be way over powered compared to the other nations' carriers?

 

Nah, their holy spreadsheets do not comfirm, as many soviet ships are very balanced accoding to the papers.

[Smegger213]

On 11/21/2021 at 11:10 PM, admiraldelorin said:

500 players can only be represetantive IF the demograpics correlate. Your "could" just means that. Any group could, including the 1000 of which all 100%  WANT submarines.   A "good number" is not a "fact",  sorry.

"far more players"... ?   most never get to the forum , let alone post. I would hope that Wargaming is imune to "Tabloid" and "fake news" arguments..  Yelling  does not make an argument....    

"In the end we all know that Wargaming will ignore any negative feedback, and keep pushing subs into the game, no matter how much they will destroy the player experience." 

 

Are you saying that they have been very successful becasue they ignored negative feedback? If that contributed to their success sofar, I would suggest they just keep doing what they have been doing then.  

"Trust me when I say that if subs stay in the game, the number of players playing will go down."     I don't trust fake arguments .. or dramatized opinionated arguments.   

 

In the end I hope Wargming will ignore any and all fake argument and does what serves continuity for them most.
 

1. I am not quoting facts. I just say that if 500 players answer a survey and 89% of those 500 say they do not like subs in random battles. Then Wargaming should just not dismiss it because its only 500 players. You may gauge it as a possible feeling of a big proportion of the player base.

 

2. You are right that most players never get to the forum. But what I am saying is that far more players that do post on the forums hate subs, than players that like subs.  You go look at any thread where subs are discussed. You will see that there are far more players answer saying they do not want subs. The players posting that they love subs are in a minority.

 

3. Wargaming time and time again have ignored tons of negative feedback. Do you think they have been successful by ignoring that feedback? I would say no. Look at the garbage CV rework, look at the obvious Russian BIAS. Look at the fact that only Wargaming and a small majority want subs in the game. Look at the aggressive monetisation tactics that Wargaming use. Hell tons of CC's quit because of that. How many times have Wargaming broke promises? Remember it was Wargaming themselves that said subs would never be put in the game.

 

Many players have quit playing because of subs.

I will say it again. No matter how much Wargaming tweak subs. They will never be able to balance them fairly.

[admiraldelorin]

6 hours ago, Smegger213 said:

1. I am not quoting facts. I just say that if 500 players answer a survey and 89% of those 500 say they do not like subs in random battles. Then Wargaming should just not dismiss it because its only 500 players. You may gauge it as a possible feeling of a big proportion of the player base.

 

2. You are right that most players never get to the forum. But what I am saying is that far more players that do post on the forums hate subs, than players that like subs.  You go look at any thread where subs are discussed. You will see that there are far more players answer saying they do not want subs. The players posting that they love subs are in a minority.

 

3. Wargaming time and time again have ignored tons of negative feedback. Do you think they have been successful by ignoring that feedback? I would say no. Look at the garbage CV rework, look at the obvious Russian BIAS. Look at the fact that only Wargaming and a small majority want subs in the game. Look at the aggressive monetisation tactics that Wargaming use. Hell tons of CC's quit because of that. How many times have Wargaming broke promises? Remember it was Wargaming themselves that said subs would never be put in the game.

 

Many players have quit playing because of subs.

I will say it again. No matter how much Wargaming tweak subs. They will never be able to balance them fairly. 

Yes so a sub group of a sub group does not like subs. Oh and a sub group of that sub group is no longer playing.. and still resources are poured into the further development.. WG must be  very unsuccessfull..  wait that does not add up. Ah.. right  WG is very succesfull .. you are right in one thing though complaining is always louder than the praise.. I keep repeating my self BUT you cannot argue against the numbers..  i'm sure revenue streams are well guarded..  even when the whole leisure market is upended at the moment i'm sure that continuity is the priority, not what is communictaed by a sub group of the playerbase.

And there is more.. you can't invest less then 0 in subs but those that want subs can spend more and more resources...  as they say you are on a  downward track.  

So its all only about your personal experience in the game that suffers and you do not "like" so no one can have it.. al you have to do is not to enter any game that can have a sub in it or leave right away..   just like i can avoid any game that can't have them.   Again in the end the numbers wil decide, only differnce is that i wil not go on a tirade to get what i want but will happily rebuke anyone that tries.  

[jdo666]

Totally agree this class should be ditched, I have just played in a T7 game in my german BB P.Heinrich (which is great fun normally) and was chased for the 1st 5 mins by a sub before being sunk by it, I had no counter, could not see it, absolute joke.

I HAD 000000   (Zero) FUN wargaming.

Please remove subs totally & while your at it ditch the other Fun Police ----- CVs. On the rare occasion when these classes are not present the game for everyone is great - DUMP them before players start dumping you, because once again your ignoring there feedback.

 

[Smegger213]

On 11/23/2021 at 6:04 PM, admiraldelorin said:

Yes so a sub group of a sub group does not like subs. Oh and a sub group of that sub group is no longer playing.. and still resources are poured into the further development.. WG must be  very unsuccessfull..  wait that does not add up. Ah.. right  WG is very succesfull .. you are right in one thing though complaining is always louder than the praise.. I keep repeating my self BUT you cannot argue against the numbers..  i'm sure revenue streams are well guarded..  even when the whole leisure market is upended at the moment i'm sure that continuity is the priority, not what is communictaed by a sub group of the playerbase.

And there is more.. you can't invest less then 0 in subs but those that want subs can spend more and more resources...  as they say you are on a  downward track.  

So its all only about your personal experience in the game that suffers and you do not "like" so no one can have it.. al you have to do is not to enter any game that can have a sub in it or leave right away..   just like i can avoid any game that can't have them.   Again in the end the numbers wil decide, only differnce is that i wil not go on a tirade to get what i want but will happily rebuke anyone that tries.  

Just look at every post on the forums that mentions submarines. You will find far more players that DO NOT WANT THEM IN THE GAME, than those that do.

As for your statement that Wargaming are very successful. Well only time will tell on that one. Judging on what server stats I can find. At the moment, numbers look steady at about 25,000 online on EU server. Buts that's a piss poor number compared to the high of 45,000 in 2015. https://stats.wotapi.ru/stats/wows/eu/EU.

On 11/23/2021 at 11:50 PM, jdo666 said:

Totally agree this class should be ditched, I have just played in a T7 game in my german BB P.Heinrich (which is great fun normally) and was chased for the 1st 5 mins by a sub before being sunk by it, I had no counter, could not see it, absolute joke.

I HAD 000000   (Zero) FUN wargaming.

Please remove subs totally & while your at it ditch the other Fun Police ----- CVs. On the rare occasion when these classes are not present the game for everyone is great - DUMP them before players start dumping you, because once again your ignoring there feedback.

 

There you go admiraldelorin. Yet another happy customer comments on the forums about subs.

DUMP them before players start dumping you. Nice comment from another player that hates subs.

But its OK for the MINORITY THAT LOVE SUBS.

[admiraldelorin]

11 hours ago, Smegger213 said:

Just look at every post on the forums that mentions submarines. You will find far more players that DO NOT WANT THEM IN THE GAME, than those that do.

As for your statement that Wargaming are very successful. Well only time will tell on that one. Judging on what server stats I can find. At the moment, numbers look steady at about 25,000 online on EU server. Buts that's a piss poor number compared to the high of 45,000 in 2015. https://stats.wotapi.ru/stats/wows/eu/EU.

There you go admiraldelorin. Yet another happy customer comments on the forums about subs.

DUMP them before players start dumping you. Nice comment from another player that hates subs.

But its OK for the MINORITY THAT LOVE SUBS.

You seem to fail to grasp that for every LOOSER there is a WINNER .. but i regress.  there are regularly 100 BBS in que for every 10 DD every 2 CV and every 2 submarinse  so 100 can 't handle it ? Is that what you are saying the LOOSERS hate submarines .... ha ha so your whole argument is just about sorry loosers ..  ... well thanks for clearing that up :)   

[Smegger213]

12 hours ago, admiraldelorin said:

You seem to fail to grasp that for every LOOSER there is a WINNER .. but i regress.  there are regularly 100 BBS in que for every 10 DD every 2 CV and every 2 submarinse  so 100 can 't handle it ? Is that what you are saying the LOOSERS hate submarines .... ha ha so your whole argument is just about sorry loosers ..  ... well thanks for clearing that up :)   

So, your only argument is to resort to insults.

Fine. Guess what. I don't give a fig.

Its what Wargaming do that matter.

[Hanse77SWE]

On 11/23/2021 at 12:44 PM, Smegger213 said:

I am not quoting facts. I just say that if 500 players answer a survey and 89% of those 500 say they do not like subs in random battles. Then Wargaming should just not dismiss it because its only 500 players. You may gauge it as a possible feeling of a big proportion of the player base.

One "funny" thing here is if >500 people took a poll about something and 89% said this is fine, then WG would take that as proof that it's a good thing.

 

Why isn't the opposite true?