Sub vs CA, no contest.

[Cyclops_]

CA's have literally zero counter play to a Sub whether it is T6, 8 or 10.

 

I just played a T10 battle in the U-2501, we won the game I did a reasonable score of 136k dmg and came 3rd, but I felt so sorry when I took on a near full hp Venezia, he stood no chance as the CA has literally zero counter play to the sub, he could not un ping me, he took 2 full sets of torps with little effort from myself, it was just wrong and I felt so bad  I even sent an apologetic message to him after the battle.

 

Come on WG sort these damn things out, Subs are OP, Unbalanced and a curse on this game.

[Camperdown]

Sorry OP, WG first needs to recoup their investment in premium sub sales. Then they just might think about game balance again 

[hellhound666]

34 minutes ago, Cyclops_ said:

CA's have literally zero counter play to a Sub whether it is T6, 8 or 10.

 

I just played a T10 battle in the U-2501, we won the game I did a reasonable score of 136k dmg and cam 3rd, but I felt so sorry when I took on a near full hp Venezia, he stood no chance as the CA has literally zero counter play to the sub, he could not un ping me, he took 2 full sets of torps with little effort from myself, it was just wrong and I felt so bad  I even sent an apologetic message to him after the battle.

 

Come on WG sort thses damn things out, Subs are OP, Unbalanced and a curse on this game.

what do you expect when the final decision maker plays mainly t4 clemson ...

[OldPappy]

I think they are doing some sorts of nerfs in the coming update. 
How effective they will be remains to be seen……………….🤔

[OldPappy]

38 minutes ago, Cyclops_ said:

CA's have literally zero counter play to a Sub whether it is T6, 8 or 10.

 

I just played a T10 battle in the U-2501, we won the game I did a reasonable score of 136k dmg and cam 3rd, but I felt so sorry when I took on a near full hp Venezia, he stood no chance as the CA has literally zero counter play to the sub, he could not un ping me, he took 2 full sets of torps with little effort from myself, it was just wrong and I felt so bad  I even sent an apologetic message to him after the battle.

 

Come on WG sort thses damn things out, Subs are OP, Unbalanced and a curse on this game.

I know what you mean. I played 1 (only 1) game in random. I played in test and a few in coop but only maybe 10 in total. 
And I did easily 105 k damage. Just sitting in a cap head on with a bb and sunk him. I met a cruiser in a small space. His bombs were ineffective and I simply torped him with my rear torps after he passed me. 

[Ronchabale]

40 minutes ago, Cyclops_ said:

CA's have literally zero counter play to a Sub whether it is T6, 8 or 10.

 

I just played a T10 battle in the U-2501, we won the game I did a reasonable score of 136k dmg and cam 3rd, but I felt so sorry when I took on a near full hp Venezia, he stood no chance as the CA has literally zero counter play to the sub, he could not un ping me, he took 2 full sets of torps with little effort from myself, it was just wrong and I felt so bad  I even sent an apologetic message to him after the battle.

 

Come on WG sort thses damn things out, Subs are OP, Unbalanced and a curse on this game.

Yes, in the hands of a skilled player they are OP

Also if u have a large skill gap between the sub player on green team vs red team the team with the noob is at a great disadvantage

Like CV:s the Submarine class has a disproportional effect on game outcome 

[Capra76]

2 hours ago, Ronchabale said:

Yes, in the hands of a skilled player they are OP

 

 

The big question is how high is the skill cap?

 

My impression is that it's fairly low, such that an average player should be able to get close to the level of a top player relatively easily, at which point it'll then be OP in the hands of an average player.

[doerhoff_damian]

Subs are very strong in the Hands of good Commanders. They are never spottet and all you see is Pings and Torps.

Against average Sub Commanders you have far better Chances. 

They can get spottet  and quick thinking CA and BB Captains will launch their Planes and if they predict the movement of the sub right these depth charges can do a lot of damage.

Subs usually get spottet by other subs or if they are too close to an enemy when pinging him. They can also be spottet by cv planes when they are at the surfice

Some subs even get spottet at the surfice close to an enemy and this can result in a quick death by primary and secondary guns.

My biggest problem would be the homing torps because changing speed and zig zaging like you do it against dds doesn´t work here.

This is very problemetic for bbs who are not fast and maneuverable

[Ronchabale]

8 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

 

The big question is how high is the skill cap?

 

My impression is that it's fairly low, such that an average player should be able to get close to the level of a top player relatively easily, at which point it'll then be OP in the hands of an average player.

Good question, viewed quite a bit of Flambass and Mr__ Gibbins larking around with subs on Twitch stream, they for sure were wreaking havoc on the enemy team 

Myself I find them difficult to handle, I am an highly average player 52%, Played like 5 battles in coop and one or 2 in random I mostly get very limited damage, did get lucky and sank a Dunkerque in random

[MadBadDave]

13 hours ago, Cyclops_ said:

CA's have literally zero counter play to a Sub whether it is T6, 8 or 10.

 

I just played a T10 battle in the U-2501, we won the game I did a reasonable score of 136k dmg and cam 3rd, but I felt so sorry when I took on a near full hp Venezia, he stood no chance as the CA has literally zero counter play to the sub, he could not un ping me, he took 2 full sets of torps with little effort from myself, it was just wrong and I felt so bad  I even sent an apologetic message to him after the battle.

 

Come on WG sort thses damn things out, Subs are OP, Unbalanced and a curse on this game.

Just like cvs; in good hands Subs are OP, and counter play is non existent but in an idiots hands you’re almost guaranteed a win.   
 

Having got fed up with T10, I’ve revisited a few old faves, tonight it was Nagato, yep surprisingly it was bottom tier, who’d a thought eh 😉,  anyway T8 sub decides to stalk me,  while his team’s getting hammered, instead of protecting B cap and going after botes near the cap he continued to chase, ping and launch torps at me, in all I was pinged at least 5 times and at least 3 Torp salvos were fired at me, not 1 single torps struck and even though a friendly Kita came to support me (because we were winning by such a margin), the sub continued to chase me.

 

Bear in mind I was nowhere near a cap and duelling with 3 reds.  once again this highlights the contrast in intelligence and how stupid the player base; you could put an idiot in the very best bote and they’d still screw it up, think Mino reload? Thunderer he with Yammy’s ap power, 40knts, 9km detection,100 AArating, triple rated icebreaker and keel citadel, and they’d still be dead within a minute; that stupid.

 

A good sub player would have affected the game outcome by contesting where it mattered, sinking me in the process, a bad player forgets the cap and notion of winning in favour of chasing aT7 BB and launching multiple torps, all of which miss, similar to a cvs player rushing headlong into the middle of the ocean and def aa. 
 

Homing Torps ARE the reason why most of us hate subs but in truth most players are so stupid manual torps would never even hit an island.

 

[Cyclops_]

43 minutes ago, MadBadDave said:

Just like cvs; in good hands Subs are OP, and counter play is non existent but in an idiots hands you’re almost guaranteed a win.   
 

Having got fed up with T10, I’ve revisited a few old faves, tonight it was Nagato, yep surprisingly it was bottom tier, who’d a thought eh 😉,  anyway T8 sub decides to stalk me,  while his team’s getting hammered, instead of protecting B cap and going after botes near the cap hr continued to chase, ping and launch torps at me, in all I was pinged at least 5 times and at least 3 Torp salvos were fired at me, not 1 single torps struck and even though a friendly Kita came to support me (because we were winning by such a margin), the sub continued to chase me.

 

Bear in mind I was nowhere near a cap and duelling with 3 reds.  once again this highlights the contrast in intelligence and how stupid the player base; you could put an idiot in the very best bote and they’d still screw it up, think Mino reload? Thunderer he with Yammy’s ap power, 40knts, 9km detection,100 AArating, triple rated icebreaker and keel citadel, and they’d still be dead within a minute; that stupid.

 

A good sub player would have affected the game outcome by contesting where it mattered, sinking me in the process, a bad player forgets the cap and notion of winning in favour of chasing aT7 BB and launching multiple torps, all of which miss, similar to a cvs player rushing headlong into the middle of the ocean and def aa. 
 

Homing Torps ARE the reason why most of us hate subs but in truth most players are so stupid manual torps would never even hit an island.

 

To be fair to the sub, a BB is the hardest  ship to score good torps against, it has counter play, when it DCP's it has a 15 second to 20 second window that the sub can not ping you ( A CA has only a 5 second window, the same as a DD ) it has depth charges delivered by plane up to 10K plus away, also a BB can more easily out manoeuvre torps from a sub due to the ships length, all it has to do is turn into torps and turn away again,  as sub will then ping the bow and when the BB turns 180% the torps lose direction and totally miss, so it is far easier to avoid torps in a BB. Then again the BB is the most moddy coddled ship in WoW's.

[Ymustihaveaname]

6 hours ago, Capra76 said:

My impression is that it's fairly low, such that an average player should be able to get close to the level of a top player relatively easily, at which point it'll then be OP in the hands of an average player.

My limited impression is the opposite, they are so different from other ships that there is a huge amount to learn and get used to?

 

Things like knowing the map underwater geography, so you know where it is sufficiently deep to dive away, will greatly benefit more experienced players as it's not obvious and not shown on the surface or minimap......?

[Ronchabale]

3 hours ago, Ymustihaveaname said:

Things like knowing the map underwater geography, so you know where it is sufficiently deep to dive away, will greatly benefit more experienced players as it's not obvious and not shown on the surface or minimap......?

Think they may have "forgotten" about that info on the minimap

 

[MadBadDave]

8 hours ago, Cyclops_ said:

To be fair to the sub, a BB is the hardest  ship to score good torps against, it has counter play, when it DCP's it has a 15 second to 20 second window that the sub can not ping you ( A CA has only a 5 second window, the same as a DD ) it has depth charges delivered by plane up to 10K plus away, also a BB can more easily out manoeuvre torps from a sub due to the ships length, all it has to do is turn into torps and turn away again,  as sub will then ping the bow and when the BB turns 180% the torps lose direction and totally miss, so it is far easier to avoid torps in a BB. Then again the BB is the most moddy coddled ship in WoW's.

I disagree, it’s always been known to turn into torps, for cruisers and DDs turning isn’t an issue and even ships like the Alabama and Warspite which can turn better than most turn slowly.  
 

In a dd / cruiser you can outrun the torps /run out of range, even fully specced nagatos top speed is 28knts and the target is huge,   Are you telling me it’s harder for a T8 sub to hit a T7 BB than a cruiser or DD ?.   And don’t forget chasing after me left the cap undefended.   

[Ronchabale]

49 minutes ago, MadBadDave said:

I disagree, it’s always been known to turn into torps, for cruisers and DDs turning isn’t an issue and even ships like the Alabama and Warspite which can turn better than most turn slowly.  
 

In a dd / cruiser you can outrun the torps /run out of range, even fully specced nagatos top speed is 28knts and the target is huge,   Are you telling me it’s harder for a T8 sub to hit a T7 BB than a cruiser or DD ?.   And don’t forget chasing after me left the cap undefended.   

Yeah, u need some speed too, not like any sluggish ship is gonna make great dodges, maybe Andrea Doria, Roma, Scharnhorst and a couple more

Did manage some real nice dodges in the Mackensen couple of days ago, kiting away / last sec wiggle and dmg con technique, evaded 2 sets of ping locked torps, Mackensen has fast reload dmg con

Turning into them u are more likely to get them all to land on your bow, flooding, possible dmg saturation will save u until he reloads

[Sink_Different]

Cancer complaining about COVID 19.

When the community needs a cure to both .

[General_Alexus]

CAs all have access to hydro,actually the best tool to depleat battery of a sub (most subs get killed after depleating battery)

CAs have RPF if they so choose, a great tool against subs (if not the best)

Yes Torp homing in Subs+Citadells is to strong but it will be fixed both with 10.10 (->devblog), so I dont consider this complaint valid anymore.

There is a sub-threat, no need to create new ones and discuss outdated or wrong information.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

1 hour ago, General_Alexus said:

CAs all have access to hydro,actually the best tool to depleat battery of a sub (most subs get killed after depleating battery)

CAs have RPF if they so choose, a great tool against subs (if not the best)

Yes Torp homing in Subs+Citadells is to strong but it will be fixed both with 10.10 (->devblog), so I dont consider this complaint valid anymore.

There is a sub-threat, no need to create new ones and discuss outdated or wrong information.

Even though some of the main offending issues are indeed adressed in the devblog, the main omission of fun and engaging counterplay will probably still remain. Tormenting cruisers like in the video I posted earlier will only take a bit longer, but still will be as painful as it currently is. In this particular example the lack of citadels would be comepensated by the 2 additional torpedoes that were about to hit him. The only thing that would have helped him is the planned range increase of tracking being lost on cruisers. I'm reposting it here since the original thread seems to have vanished.

 

 

[Dave6]

Před 12 minutami General_Alexus řekl/a:

CAs all have access to hydro,

All? 

[Aragathor]

50 minutes ago, General_Alexus said:

CAs all have access to hydro,actually the best tool to depleat battery of a sub (most subs get killed after depleating battery)

CAs have RPF if they so choose, a great tool against subs (if not the best)

Yes Torp homing in Subs+Citadells is to strong but it will be fixed both with 10.10 (->devblog), so I dont consider this complaint valid anymore.

There is a sub-threat, no need to create new ones and discuss outdated or wrong information.

Not all lines have access to hydro, also several premium cruisers don't have it. So there is no need to discuss your argument, as it isn't factual at all.

OP said Venezia, and that ship doesn't have hydro.

[SmokinSerj]

17 hours ago, Cyclops_ said:

CA's have literally zero counter play to a Sub whether it is T6, 8 or 10.

 

I just played a T10 battle in the U-2501, we won the game I did a reasonable score of 136k dmg and cam 3rd, but I felt so sorry when I took on a near full hp Venezia, he stood no chance as the CA has literally zero counter play to the sub, he could not un ping me, he took 2 full sets of torps with little effort from myself, it was just wrong and I felt so bad  I even sent an apologetic message to him after the battle.

 

Come on WG sort thses damn things out, Subs are OP, Unbalanced and a curse on this game.

 

I'll probably get a lot of downvotes (  ),  but I see nothing wrong about this. In the real war, the surface ship had as many chances against a sub as your Venezia.... and nobody sent them apologies after.

[geschlittert]

15 minutes ago, SmokinSerj said:

 

I'll probably get a lot of downvotes (  ),  but I see nothing wrong about this. In the real war, the surface ship had as many chances against a sub as your Venezia.... and nobody sent them apologies after.

this isnt real war, this is a game. 

[Cyclops_]

5 hours ago, MadBadDave said:

I disagree, it’s always been known to turn into torps, for cruisers and DDs turning isn’t an issue and even ships like the Alabama and Warspite which can turn better than most turn slowly.  
 

In a dd / cruiser you can outrun the torps /run out of range, even fully specced nagatos top speed is 28knts and the target is huge,   Are you telling me it’s harder for a T8 sub to hit a T7 BB than a cruiser or DD ?.   And don’t forget chasing after me left the cap undefended.   

 

From mine and other Sub users, a BB has more chance of avoiding torps than a CA at this moment in this update, the next it will change.

[Cyclops_]

31 minutes ago, SmokinSerj said:

 

I'll probably get a lot of downvotes (  ),  but I see nothing wrong about this. In the real war, the surface ship had as many chances against a sub as your Venezia.... and nobody sent them apologies after.

You have missed the point of this post completely 

[Cyclops_]

1 hour ago, General_Alexus said:

CAs all have access to hydro,actually the best tool to depleat battery of a sub (most subs get killed after depleating battery)

CAs have RPF if they so choose, a great tool against subs (if not the best)

Yes Torp homing in Subs+Citadells is to strong but it will be fixed both with 10.10 (->devblog), so I dont consider this complaint valid anymore.

There is a sub-threat, no need to create new ones and discuss outdated or wrong information.

 

Again you have missed the point, with this iteration of subs my post is 100% correct, come next update things Will be changing. 

Your point of all CA's having hydro is incorrect, just imagine if they gave all CA's hydro & RPF, a lot would have to be re balanced as it would make them OP to other surface ships and that is the problem by adding subs you have to change ALL surface ship parameters to cope with them and it will take years to rebalance, this is the worst thing that WG has EVER done and I doubt they will ever be able to balance the game now.