What exactly are you supposed to learn/grind/farm in Co op in 4 mins and 9 sec?

[SeaWolf7]

CO OP: Is this game mode getting worse or is it me? Because at higher tiers this mode is as about as useful as a concreate parachute.

 

So im currently dabbling in a bit of cv play and although ive had some success in the furious at tier VI i wanted to avoid jumping in at tier 8 Implacable without some practice first. (The jump for 6 to 8 Is large imo by the way for CV)

But literally every time i go in to co op to practice, the game is over in like 5 mins max! 3 games today @5.19, 5 mins and the last one 4 mins and 8 seconds. 

I even asked in the last game in chat "what exactly can you achieve/learn in co op in 4-5 mins?"

"Farm" Came a reply.

 

Farm?

Farm what exactly? Its taken 2 mins to get within aiming distance of the enemy no? Doesn't leave a lot of time for farming or learning anything of substance.

 

All i see now is two teams charge at each other in literally a strait line no A or D required, BB 's charging DD's (yeah cos that's great practice by the way) Just general behavior that you would never do in Randoms ranked etc unless you have somewhere else to be in 4 mins.

My question is: Does this not promote really bad gameplay/habits that people then take in to randoms/ ranked? Have we not seen some quite bad new People to this game in higher tiers yolo'ing to extreme areas of the map? where did they learn this skill i wonder?

Because recently i see more and more people write in the forum that they are mainly a co op player and that fills me with dread for the future of this title.

 

 

Just wanted to get a general opinion and feedback from you guys what you think of CO-OP atm? 

 

Could this mode be improved and if so in your opinion, how.? 

OR 

If you like it just the way it is, why?

 

 

Many thanks.

 

 

[Molly_Delaney]

Co-op is just a 'shoot at ships' mode; doesn't even matter whether red or green......

But it does teach what happens when you don't avoid flak....

[Yxkraft]

Co op is fine as it is, it should happen fast. You use this to do missions. 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

23 minutes ago, Yxkraft said:

Co op is fine as it is, it should happen fast. You use this to do missions. 

^This^ is why we can't have nice gameplay. People wanting a looter not a shooter.

 

https://www.farming-simulator.com/about.php?lang=en&country=nl&platform=pc

[Prophecy82]

What do you expect from Coop? 

Harder fights? WG tried that ONCE and gave the bots half a braincell. 

Those Coop-Unicums couldnt handle the pressure and the bots got lobotomized again. 

 

IIRC you can try the better bots still in practice-battle... I actually have seen worse human-players. 

[Klopirat]

Vor 29 Minuten, SeaWolf7 sagte:

Farm what exactly? Its taken 2 mins to get within aiming distance of the enemy no? Doesn't leave a lot of time for farming or learning anything of substance.

it is enough to get 400 to 500 base xp in 4-5 minutes. Compare this to the average income of 15 minutes random battles (for the normal player, not the super unicums who make 2.000 base xp in every match)...

[Karasu_Browarszky]

Time management?

 

The problem here is that traditionally it's been a good thing coop is fast, because that's allowed you to farm xp/damage etc and win battles for the missions relatively faster compared to the randoms, and the fact you could fight more coop in the same time as randoms (unless you know... like get sunk in the first 2 mins...) so you haven't actually lost that much in terms of xp/damage (just credits).

 

The cv's and subs complicated this, because they often add to the battle time but do not provide an opportunity to use the added time to farm damage.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

8 minutes ago, Prophecy82 said:

What do you expect from Coop? 

Harder fights? WG tried that ONCE and gave the bots half a braincell. 

Those Coop-Unicums couldnt handle the pressure and the bots got lobotomized again. 

 

IIRC you can try the better bots still in practice-battle... I actually have seen worse human-players. 

I expect a fun coop game, but the meta loot game takes gameplay hostage on almost every level.

[Shirakami_Kon]

I also noticed that somehow co-op battles have become REALLY short. I mean... It's not that killing dumb bots takes a lot, but that was before 1-2 weeks ago.

 

I don't know what it is exactly, but something was modified. I haven't properly tested it yet to say "yes, what changed is definitely X", but it really feels like either capturing areas gives points faster than other game modes now, or that enemy ships killed give more points than it should. Because yes, co-op was always fast, it's fast enough to just kill all the enemy bots, but somehow now you see a lot of co-op matches that finish before all bots are sunk and your team didn't even capture all areas for that. Idk if there's a bug in co-op lately or what, but something is really off.

[Yxkraft]

22 minutes ago, Europizza said:

^This^ is why we can't have nice gameplay. People wanting a looter not a shooter.

 

https://www.farming-simulator.com/about.php?lang=en&country=nl&platform=pc

 

Because of the idiot grindwall WG put their "presents" behind, I did 32 coop missions yesterday, it was mind numbing and I was grateful for every second that I saved doing them. Load, rush forward,  sink a bot, ram another bot, repeat x 32. Instead of putting presents behind a repeatable challenge or something, so I could play game modes I like, it is set up to make the player dislike the game.  Sometimes I wonder if there is a saboteur network in Lesta Studios because people cant be this incompetent, can they. I mean, its obvious it has to be saboteur inside. Right, guys? Guys? Guys...? 

[Yxkraft]

54 minutes ago, SeaWolf7 said:

So im currently dabbling in a bit of cv play and although ive had some success in the furious at tier VI i wanted to avoid jumping in at tier 8 Implacable without some practice first. (The jump for 6 to 8 Is large imo by the way for CV)

But literally every time i go in to co op to practice, the game is over in like 5 mins max! 3 games today @5.19, 5 mins and the last one 4 mins and 8 seconds. 

The only thing you can learn in coop is basic handling mechanics. If you want to learn how to play a ship beyond moving, aiming and firing you need to play against humans. 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

13 minutes ago, SHDRKN4792 said:

I also noticed that somehow co-op battles have become REALLY short. I mean... It's not that killing dumb bots takes a lot, but that was before 1-2 weeks ago.

 

I don't know what it is exactly, but something was modified. I haven't properly tested it yet to say "yes, what changed is definitely X", but it really feels like either capturing areas gives points faster than other game modes now, or that enemy ships killed give more points than it should. Because yes, co-op was always fast, it's fast enough to just kill all the enemy bots, but somehow now you see a lot of co-op matches that finish before all bots are sunk and you're team didn't even capture all areas for that. Idk if there's a bug in co-op lately or what, but something is really off.

 

I guess you could div up with a CV and a sub.

 

Thank me later.

[Siagor]

Co-Op is not about learning, grinding nor farming.

 

It is made as an easy 'let's shoot some ships fast and carefree' and that's all there is to it - made for quick fun.

 

 

[Prophecy82]

27 minutes ago, Europizza said:

I expect a fun coop game, but the meta loot game takes gameplay hostage on almost every level.

 

No fun allowed in WoWS. 

You should know that!

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

14 minutes ago, Yxkraft said:

 

Because of the idiot grindwall WG put their "presents" behind, I did 32 coop missions yesterday, it was mind numbing and I was grateful for every second that I saved doing them. Load, rush forward,  sink a bot, ram another bot, repeat x 32. Instead of putting presents behind a repeatable challenge or something, so I could play game modes I like, it is set up to make the player dislike the game.  Sometimes I wonder if there is a saboteur network in Lesta Studios because people cant be this incompetent, can they. I mean, its obvious it has to be saboteur inside. Right, guys? Guys? Guys...? 

So you do get it right? WG keeps coop mind numbingly stupid because a hopelessly zombie hord playerbase is willing to play 32 mind numbing games to get some 'presents'.

 

2 minutes ago, Siagor said:

Co-Op is not about learning, grinding nor farming.

 

It is made as an easy 'let's shoot some ships fast and carefree' and that's all there is to it - made for quick fun.

 

 

Coop in its current state is hardly 'fun'. It's a damage kill race for loot and kept that way because looters revolted when better AI was tested from what I understand.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

12 minutes ago, Siagor said:

Co-Op is not about learning, grinding nor farming.

 

It is made as an easy 'let's shoot some ships fast and carefree' and that's all there is to it - made for quick fun.

 

 

 

I thought that was what the randoms were about?

[Karasu_Browarszky]

12 minutes ago, Europizza said:

So you do get it right? WG keeps coop mind numbingly stupid because a hopelessly zombie hord playerbase is willing to play 32 mind numbing games to get some 'presents'.

 

 

 

[SeaWolf7]

36 minutes ago, Yxkraft said:

 

Load, rush forward,  sink a bot, ram another bot, repeat x 32. Instead of putting presents behind a repeatable challenge or something, so I could play game modes I like, it is set up to make the player dislike the game. 

See this was my conclusion as well. This would get boring very fast and make players move on to something else. its not exactly going to keep them challenged and keep them playing.

 

1 hour ago, Yxkraft said:

Co op is fine as it is, it should happen fast. You use this to do missions. 

But i dont agree that it should be THAT fast because its just not realistic to the benefit of anyone in real game modes. Any mission that can be done in like 2 mins is bad for the game imo.

 

33 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

I guess you could div up with a CV and a sub.

wash it out mate!!

[SeaWolf7]

24 minutes ago, Siagor said:

Co-Op is not about learning,

 

 

But it should be...no?

[Karasu_Browarszky]

1 minute ago, SeaWolf7 said:

But it should be...no?

 

The term 'Coop' sort of implies it is about learning team tactics and how to play together but...

 

... what are we supposed to make of 'Random' then?

[SeaWolf7]

4 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

The term 'Coop' sort of implies it is about learning team tactics and how to play together but...

 

... what are we supposed to make of 'Random' then?

if they swapped the names round on those modes it would make more sense....

Radom sh*t happens for 4-5 mins and then ends

You battle and co operate with your team for 10 -15 to actually win the game?

 

[HMS_Kilinowski]

19 minutes ago, Europizza said:

So you do get it right? WG keeps coop mind numbingly stupid because a hopelessly zombie hord playerbase is willing to play 32 mind numbing games to get some 'presents'.

 

Coop in its current state is hardly 'fun'. It's a damage kill race for loot and kept that way because looters revolted when better AI was tested from what I understand.

 

Coop is mislabelled. Random Battles are more coop than Coop Battles, cause there players need to cooperate to reach a common goal. Coop Battles however have become toxic. There is no need to cooperate cause a win nowadays is pretty much given. Players compete over who can farm the most XP. It's by definition a PvP mode. You even get reported for "going over your allotment".

 

I remember early coop atmosphere was very friendly and appreciative. People would F10 and F12 a lot, give compliments. Now it's a rush for the buffet. It also becomes increasingly toxic on high tiers, cause the service cost in sum is higher than the value that can be earned from killing the bots. A high tier game has 1-3 winners and 6 players who lose credits.

 

The irony is that this design promotes adverse selection. Players who are bad in coop can't earn credits anymore. As a result they switch to high tier Random Battles, where they are as useless as a second rectum for their team.

 

1 hour ago, SeaWolf7 said:

Could this mode be improved and if so in your opinion, how.? 

OR 

If you like it just the way it is, why?

 

How to solve Coop?

 

Easy. Make it asymmetric. Put in 12 bots or even more. Use the number of bots to balance the game mode down to a 50% winrate. The increased number of bots will also increase the earnings on credits and XP. In a balanced Coop maybe a super-unicum level will finally be an achievement.

[webaake]

Since June this year Coop has really changed a lot! It is definitely quicker and way too fast. Coop must be considered to be be the first learning level for all players. You can't ask completely new players to go to Random battles on Day 1 one, can you? How much abuse would they get? 

 

Since Coop is the learning level how does it really work today? Very bad! Capping is not important because it's all about destroying. And there isn't even time to cap. This does not foster real team playing and cooperation. So WG is fostering a new generation of players that learns to YOLO. They will get use to quick and fast game play. How will that effect Random matches? Is the effect  of a new different kind of players in Random calculated by WG?

 

All I know is that Coop quick games are boring.

 

PS. Any tips on other games?

[hellhound666]

2 hours ago, SeaWolf7 said:

Farm what exactly?

whatever is needed - except credits and exp

[Karasu_Browarszky]

10 minutes ago, hellhound666 said:

whatever is needed - except credits and exp

 

Kills....