TT-Cruisers < T10 in a bad state?

[Prophecy82]

So I started re-buying some ships to farm that sweet sweet steel for the x-mas event... 

while doing so I realized: Wow, so many cruisers I definitly DONT want to revisit/play. 

 

(Non-premium) Cruiser-wise it boils down for me to: Fiji, Edin, Mogami, Donskoi, JdW, Drake, Roon aaaand thats it. 

The rest is imo lackluster or just plain painful to play. 

 

Maybe its just me...  but given the lack of cruisers in randoms I observe, are they in a bad state?

[Miscommunication_dept]

I agree, there are plenty of nice tier 10s but even at 9 there are few tech trees I’d like to play. Maybe just brindisi.

[Tanaka_15]

14 minutes ago, Prophecy82 said:

So I started re-buying some ships to farm that sweet sweet steel for the x-mas event... 

while doing so I realized: Wow, so many cruisers I definitly DONT want to revisit/play. 

 

(Non-premium) Cruiser-wise it boils down for me to: Fiji, Edin, Mogami, Donskoi, JdW, Drake aaaand thats it. 

The rest is imo lackluster or just plain painful to play. 

 

Maybe its just me...  but given the lack of cruisers in randoms I observe, are they in a bad state?

Imho cursers are in bad state for years. You can play a BB or a DD and to all the things cruser shuld do better then why you would play crusers now? 

[Prophecy82]

13 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

I agree, there are plenty of nice tier 10s but even at 9 there are few tech trees I’d like to play. Maybe just brindisi.

I hate Brindisi since it gets citadeled from any angle. 

[Ocsimano18]

Whenever I see a Buffalo, it gets dev striked.

[ZeuSueZ1337]

All other things being even; imho, the removal of captain skill "fire prevention" for cruisers have proven catastrophic, since you're basically a floating bbq playing a cruiser these days....

[Prophecy82]

6 minutes ago, ZeuSueZ1337 said:

All other things being even; imho, the removal of captain skill "fire prevention" for cruisers have proven catastrophic, since you're basically a floating bbq playing a cruiser these days....

Actually thats one of the few changes I like. 

The reason is, Supercruisers were already stronger than the normal ones and with FP you could mitigate their only downside. 

So in a way it was a nerf to supercruisers, which I welcomed. Lets face it: If you have Alaska, why would you ever touch Seattle or Buffalo again?

And thats imo still true after the Captain-Rebork. 

[Aragathor]

36 minutes ago, Tanaka_15 said:

Imho cursers are in bad state for years. You can play a BB or a DD and to all the things cruser shuld do better then why you would play crusers now? 

Well, whenever there's a change WG makes sure cruisers get a global nerf:

 

-IFHE change - killed mid-tier light cruisers, nerfed high tier light cruisers.

-Skill rework - massively nerfed supercruisers and DD caliber light cruisers.

-CV rework - ruined DefAA consumable and AA in general, killed off lines specialized in AA.

-Sub introduction - cruisers have some of the worst defenses against them.

 

WG hates cruisers or they are too incompetent to balance them.

[Fat_Maniac]

1 hour ago, Prophecy82 said:

So I started re-buying some ships to farm that sweet sweet steel for the x-mas event... 

while doing so I realized: Wow, so many cruisers I definitly DONT want to revisit/play. 

 

(Non-premium) Cruiser-wise it boils down for me to: Fiji, Edin, Mogami, Donskoi, JdW, Drake, Roon aaaand thats it. 

The rest is imo lackluster or just plain painful to play. 

 

Maybe its just me...  but given the lack of cruisers in randoms I observe, are they in a bad state?

The introduction of ever increasing calibre main guns on BB's and the supercruisers, along with CV and now subs spotting, means most cruisers have a short life

[Prophecy82]

6 minutes ago, Fat_Maniac said:

The introduction of ever increasing calibre main guns on BB's and the supercruisers, along with CV and now subs spotting, means most cruisers have a short life

Either this or you are the first half of the match not involved at all. 

Had just such a nice match a few days ago. CV casually spots me (doesnt even attack) and some random shells from Gerogia and Yamato go Lol-pen. was left with 25% HP. Wasnt showing broadside at all. 

[General_Alexus]

11 minutes ago, Prophecy82 said:

Either this or you are the first half of the match not involved at all. 

Had just such a nice match a few days ago. CV casually spots me (doesnt even attack) and some random shells from Gerogia and Yamato go Lol-pen. was left with 25% HP. Wasnt showing broadside at all. 

BB mafia is the paying customer base of WG, WG needs CAs/CLs so that BBBaybie players can get theire occational big dmg numbers on the screen and keep buying the next german premium BB that comes around.

The T10 are good so that people have a reason to grind the shitshow.

But yeah BBs complain about homing torps that do citadel damage while they themself enjoy aimassist + overmatch.

 

As for midtier crusers (I dont play lowtier), I enjoy Atago and everything with a smoke or good cammo+floaty arcs.

[SeaWolf7]

54 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

 

 or they are too incompetent to balance them.

IMO this..

Cruisers have been screwed over for a while now. With BB 's and DD'S (+Russian CV introduction) getting more and more powerful and their attributes increased to entice more people to the game (smoke, radar, increase in caliber etc) they seem to be the one class being constantly ignored. The captain skill rework was a window in to the fact the devs actually don't know how important this class is because it has to do literally a bit of everything. Throwing everything into firepower on  rework doesnt help mitigate damage or extend survivability. Also Throwing radar at every bloody cruiser as an idea just lacks creativity and understanding of the game. They are as a class now woefully under armored and as a result imo easily the hardest to play well and not attractive to new players.

 

They occasionally come out with some corkers like Alaska or Jean Bart wich imo are BALANCED. We just see them as OP because the rest of the cruiser gene pool is so pathetic. And imo there was no need to nurf ROF on RNL cruisers because there lack of amour /ridiculous citadel size already balances this. That little nerf was due to looking at too many spread sheets and not enough of playing the game. Something of wich WG are quite poor on obviously? (Subs for example released in their current state?)

 

 

[MadBadDave]

Play current (T10) brawl and you’ll wait a while in the queue if you play a cruiser or BB, a DD is near instant.

 

T9 is lacking on the cruiser front, a lot are no real improvement over T8 and T10 is a huge improvement, Edi - Neptune - Mino, Tallin - Riga - Petro, Roon anyone ?. 

[Cippalippus]

All the american cruisers are ok, maybe seattle and buffalo are the weak links but still they are somewhat enjoyable.

[arttuperkunas]

7 minutes ago, MadBadDave said:

Play current (T10) brawl and you’ll wait a while in the queue if you play a cruiser or BB, a DD is near instant.

 

T9 is lacking on the cruiser front, a lot are no real improvement over T8 and T10 is a huge improvement, Edi - Neptune - Mino, Tallin - Riga - Petro, Roon anyone ?. 

That doesn't really mean anything though. Brawls meta is significantly different than randoms, basically any cruiser with torpedoes and decent-ish armor is good there. Not so much in randoms.

[Prophecy82]

10 minutes ago, MadBadDave said:

T9 is lacking on the cruiser front, a lot are no real improvement over T8 and T10 is a huge improvement, Edi - Neptune - Mino, Tallin - Riga - Petro, Roon anyone ?. 

 

T9 has been DD/BB-Meta for ages (in ranked and CB). TT CA/CL are way too weak to deal with the BBs and DDs at that tier. 

Since you get just raped by BB-AP and you are lacking the ROF to be dangerous to DDs. 

What will a Seattle do, if a Morg, Tashkent or Udaloi catch them open water? Best option is to go dark and just fire defensive.  

[arttuperkunas]

9 minutes ago, SeaWolf7 said:

IMO this..

Cruisers have been screwed over for a while now. With BB 's and DD'S (+Russian CV introduction) getting more and more powerful and their attributes increased to entice more people to the game (smoke, radar, increase in caliber etc) they seem to be the one class being constantly ignored. The captain skill rework was a window in to the fact the devs actually don't know how important this class is because it has to do literally a bit of everything. Throwing everything into firepower on  rework doesnt help mitigate damage or extend survivability. Also Throwing radar at every bloody cruiser as an idea just lacks creativity and understanding of the game. They are as a class now woefully under armored and as a result imo easily the hardest to play well and not attractive to new players.

 

They occasionally come out with some corkers like Alaska or Jean Bart wich imo are BALANCED. We just see them as OP because the rest of the cruiser gene pool is so pathetic. And imo there was no need to nurf ROF on RNL cruisers because there lack of amour /ridiculous citadel size already balances this. That little nerf was due to looking at too many spread sheets and not enough of playing the game. Something of wich WG are quite poor on obviously? (Subs for example released in their current state?)

 

 

whut?

 

I do agree otherwise though. WG's approach to cruisers seems to be even more gimmick driven than the other lines. Cruisers just potentially pay for it more, as they don't have the concealment to hide, or the survivability to actually take a lot of hits.

[MadBadDave]

1 hour ago, arttuperkunas said:

That doesn't really mean anything though. Brawls meta is significantly different than randoms, basically any cruiser with torpedoes and decent-ish armor is good there. Not so much in randoms.

It means that T9 cruisers are generally not very good and merely a stop gap to usually  the best cruisers (T10).   
 

Another prime example is Buffalo, the Baltimore is the best cruiser up to and incl T8 within the specific tech tree, and at the top; DM, inbetween you have a ship that’s really no better than Balti and a lot worse than DM, same with Neptune etc.  

 

Unlike cruisers other ship classes do generally see an improvement at T9, Kita, Fletcher,FDG etc. 

[Ubertron_X]

Tech tree cruisers have never been in a good state to begin with. For example I am still of the opinion that every tech tree cruiser 8+ definitely needs heals. Play with the big boys (T10), heal like the big boys. This would considerable increase staying power especially considering the fire prevention changes (100% repairable). And WG adding a phletora of >406mm calibre BBs didn't help open water cruisers either.

 

Apart from that I have really liked the French T7+ (still waiting for a proper French premium heavy cruiser) and the Germans T5+, however I have not played any of those lines for quite some time, so my impressions are quite probably very dated.

 

 

[Miscommunication_dept]

I agree with tier 8 heals. We could have one heal for T7 and two for T8.

this would stop a fire with repair on cool down being as deadly as a citadel.

[Bindolaf_Werebane]

I don't know... I agree that cruisers get shafted, but there are a lot I enjoy. The french ones are very strong (though Algerie never clicked with me). British CL are great and CA are ok. Amalfi and lower are great. US cruisers are good (but Buffalo and Seattle are garbage). The Germans seal club at lower tiers and start to get really crappy with Hipper. IJN are strong. I enjoy cruisers, I will say.

[Fat_Maniac]

1 hour ago, arttuperkunas said:

whut?

 

I do agree otherwise though. WG's approach to cruisers seems to be even more gimmick driven than the other lines. Cruisers just potentially pay for it more, as they don't have the concealment to hide, or the survivability to actually take a lot of hits.

They do have concealment, the issue is being perma spotted by planes and now subs. Once spotted with your armour, and all the lol pen you are just farmed for damage.

[Panocek]

Heal should be present on all ships to begin with. DDs could use Brit DD heal (1%hp per second, for 10 seconds).

[SodaBubbles]

2 hours ago, MadBadDave said:

It means that T9 cruisers are generally not very good and merely a stop gap to usually  the best cruisers (T10).   
 

Another prime example is Buffalo, the Baltimore is the best cruiser up to and incl T8 within the specific tech tree, and at the top; DM, inbetween you have a ship that’s really no better than Balti and a lot worse than DM, same with Neptune etc.  

 

Yeah, old Baltimore was way better than the new Buffalo. I loved that thing. 

 

[MadBadDave]

1 hour ago, Bindolaf_Werebane said:

. The Germans seal club at lower tiers and start to get really crappy with Hipper. IJN are strong. I enjoy cruisers, I will say.

A lot slate hipper but I think it and it’s even better sister; Eugen are ok, what gets me is that Roon is totally different to previous ships and Hindi, with other nations you can see some sort of “constant” and path to the top; free roaming jack of all trades roaming raider with roon you realistically have to kite.