[UPDATE] Do any of these lines that I am grinding get better?

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

I am posting as a coop peasant, so please bear this in mind and have pity.  (And sorry for the long post)

 

STATUS
I have been having fun playing again (except for the submarine fiasco, of course), and started to grind those lines which I had suspended or not even started.

 

My time is not unlimited.  I have many great ships to play, so I need a good reason to spend the time to grind a line.

 

I want to regrind the tier 9 ships Friedrich der Grosse & Taskkent because G.K and Khaba will be replaced at tier 10 in 2022.
I also will grind the German BB#2 lin, and German DD#2 line because….err……German.

 

THE QUESTION
Should I grind any of the outstanding lines?
I need to know if what I have seen so far is true of the rest of the line or do they improve later on up-tier?

 

THE LINES
-- USA slow BB line. Agony to play in coop in the current meta.    Already abandoned it semi-officially TBH
-- Italian BB line. Agonising dispersion. Love the Giulio Cesare premium(who doesn't?), and the Italian cruisers are OK, but the BBs are no fun at the moment.
-- EU DD line. I reckon that they would be great for random battles, but I do not play them. Weak alpha punch, and though the reload is quick….in coop, one set of torps is often all you get before the battle ends.
-- Dutch cruisers. Lack punch without the gimmick of the air strike. Planes and me do not mix. (Hopeless in CVs, with spotter planes etc.(Spent hours in the training room and still cannot get the hang of airstrike, except on a stationary target!). No ASW, and (as yet) no torpedoes to play with.

 

Thanks in advance. All thoughts welcome (even from certain Colonels)!

 

[Jvd2000]

As a fellow coop peasant ( mostly hiding from randoms meta) I find it hard to progress in coop with the lines you describe. While “ progress” in coop for high tiers is a struggle from T8 onwards ( at T6 and T7 you can atleast use scenarios) it’s even more so for those classes that cannot make fast and devastating strikes which is required in current coop games.

 

Slow US BB’s slow reload and rng plagued ITA BB guns and direct damage nerfed NL cruisers are not the best positioned to make the best games. And yes occasionally you can have a good game with them but it’s very limited on your starting location and the quality of the competition. Pan EU DD’s are a bit better but they lack the “one strike and the enemy BB is dead” capacity of other DD’s.

 

Do they get better? Nah..at T10 ( but then you have finished the grind) the US BB gets overmatch on most of the enemy cruisers due to 457mm guns.. But still slow and long reload..ITA BB’s stay meh. Dutch cruisers stay meh ( I prefer the T7 which can be made to work in scenario). Pan EU DD’s get slightly better torps that instead of having fluffy points actually do some damage after T8… But still way behind the yolo potential of some DD’s that can take out several enemy  bot ships by torping left and right in one run.

 

You can only increase the progress by playing your first daily game with a ship of one of these lines to get the xp bonus to increase the grind speed. But currently I find the best way is to play my premium ships in scenarios and grind FXP to boost progress on these lines..it’s faster then slugging it out in coop.

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 2 Stunden, Admiral_H_Nelson sagte:

-- USA slow BB line. Agony to play in coop in the current meta.    Already abandoned it semi-officially TBH

Got Kansas in EA, sold her asap, did not touch the line again (dunno if Oklahoma is supposed to be related to that line, but it certainly feels like).

Zitat

-- Italian BB line. Agonising dispersion. Love the Giulio Cesare premium(who doesn't?), and the Italian cruisers are OK, but the BBs are no fun at the moment.

Got T3-T7 in EA, sold them asap, did not touch the line again until I re-purchased the Dante to complete my new T4 fleet (and, after playing her once, did not touch her again).

Zitat

-- EU DD line. I reckon that they would be great for random battles, but I do not play them. Weak alpha punch, and though the reload is quick….in coop, one set of torps is often all you get before the battle ends.

Got the Visby in EA, sold her asap, did not touch the line again until I purchased the Horn to complete my new T4 fleet (and, after playing her once, did not touch her again). Blyska is that much better.

Zitat

-- Dutch cruisers. Lack punch without the gimmick of the air strike. Planes and me do not mix. (Hopeless in CVs, with spotter planes etc.(Spent hours in the training room and still cannot get the hang of airstrike, except on a stationary target!). No ASW, and (as yet) no torpedoes to play with.

Got the T4-T7 in EA, sold them asap, did not touch the line again until I re-purchased the Ruyter to complete my new T4 fleet (and, after playing her several times, I am kind of ok with her - mainly because she shreds planes).

 

[tocqueville8]

1) Slow USN BBs are obviously garbage for Coop, as are New Mexico and Colorado, for that matter. Minnesota and Vermont are okay, but only in Randoms. Kansas is crap in the whole multiverse

2) ITA BBs can't even be properly specced for secondaries (they're bad even with IFHE), so again, the tier doesn't matter.

3) EU DDs lack punch indeed: they're slow and don't carry many torps. The guns and the AA get better, while concealment stays good, but they're not for coop: the torpedo range makes them standoff ships.

4) Dutch CAs are even more standoffish. The airstrike gimmick only really works against stationary enemies and takes 60-90s to reload: it's a nice tool to have in Randoms, but Co-ops are over before you can launch many strikes, plus bots don't typically get stuck. Also, the line doesn't get torps, so that's even less impact for you.

 

 

TL; DR

Basically, you've picked some of the least fun lines to play in Co-op. These ships aren't bad, but if you're looking for action you should go for:

- German BBs (either line)

- British CLs

- French DDs

- IJN DDs with TRB

- maybe Soviet DDs, especially the T9 ones (three torpedo launchers on Udaloi and Tashkent)

- Paolo Emilio

[Aethervoxx]

It was my impression that the higher tier Eu DDs are still quite good to play.

I like the Andrea Doria Ita BB - I do not see that bad a dispersion with it & its AP does quite well.

[totally_potato]

4 hours ago, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

Italian BB line. Agonising dispersion. Love the Giulio Cesare premium(who doesn't?), and the Italian cruisers are OK, but the BBs are no fun at the moment.

this is the best of the bunch. You gotta play them close tho

[invicta2012]

4 hours ago, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

Thanks in advance. All thoughts welcome (even from certain Colonels)!

Funnily enough... I haven't finished these either.

 

USN slow BBs are just too slow and disinteresting. I have better Tier IX and X ships for this mode.

 

With the Italian ones... I have a Roma and a Marco Polo. That's all I need. Roma is better than Vittorio Veneto, and Marco is plagued by the same problems as the rest of the line but at least has a decent gun calibre.

 

I am still playing the Dutch Cruisers and have recently reactivated my Oland. The Dutch Cruiser grind is continuing in the hope that Haarlem offers some improved armour and gun performance over DZP,  a ship that I just cannot make work.

 

Oland is fun if played aggressively, but you have to go full co-op Torp build on your captain - to hell with concealment and RPF, you need to buff floods, base damage and reload time, and if you've got any points left,  buff the main battery as well.

[lafeel]

5 hours ago, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

-- USA slow BB line. Agony to play in coop in the current meta.    Already abandoned it semi-officially TBH

Unfortunately the answer here is a resounding "no". While Vermont is a very accurate ship, she still has the two major issues of her predeccessors, namely slow speed and slow reload. (23 knot and 40 seconds respectively)

5 hours ago, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

-- Italian BB line. Agonising dispersion. Love the Giulio Cesare premium(who doesn't?), and the Italian cruisers are OK, but the BBs are no fun at the moment.

The extra gun barrels of the tier 9 and 10 should go to some way to remedy this at least..one thinks. (at the Carraciolo personally)

5 hours ago, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

-- EU DD line. I reckon that they would be great for random battles, but I do not play them. Weak alpha punch, and though the reload is quick….in coop, one set of torps is often all you get before the battle ends.

Again, doesn't really improve even at tier 10, and that lack of alpha really hurts.

 

Can't speak for the Dutch cruisers yet either way so im leaving those out.

[Verblonde]

5 hours ago, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

THE LINES
-- USA slow BB line. Agony to play in coop in the current meta.    Already abandoned it semi-officially TBH
-- Italian BB line. Agonising dispersion. Love the Giulio Cesare premium(who doesn't?), and the Italian cruisers are OK, but the BBs are no fun at the moment.
-- EU DD line. I reckon that they would be great for random battles, but I do not play them. Weak alpha punch, and though the reload is quick….in coop, one set of torps is often all you get before the battle ends.
-- Dutch cruisers. Lack punch without the gimmick of the air strike. Planes and me do not mix. (Hopeless in CVs, with spotter planes etc.(Spent hours in the training room and still cannot get the hang of airstrike, except on a stationary target!). No ASW, and (as yet) no torpedoes to play with.

Mediocre player perspective (in order):

• I got the T8 in early access, and about the only positive thing I can think to say about it is that the commemorative permaflage is nice. Far far too slow to be much cop in Coop, and I don't believe the higher tiers are any better (at least things start to vaguely liven up in the original US BB line at T8). If I ever get the T9, it'll be years away as about the only time I can be bothered to play the damn thing is snowflakes.
• I pretty much agree with you on the Italian BBs too - dreadful. Play the premiums instead...
• The Ikea DDs are pretty effective for Coop at higher tiers, despite the squeaky toy torps; the lack of smoke doesn't matter in Coop, and you get a heal if some impudent bot manages to shoot you. The torps are good enough and very easy to hit with, and the dakka is more than sufficient from about T8 upwards (the higher tiers are great for massacring bot planes too). Well worth pursuing the line.
• Dunno about the Dutch yet; if you're time poor though, why bother? I'm continuing with the line, but slowly (and I do play Randoms). They're quite fun in Coop though, even if they aren't the most fearsome; the healing potion helps.

All that said though, Coop takes forever to grind higher tier ships in; in that case, why bother with anything you aren't certain will be fun?

[Ronchabale]

No.. US slow BB:s... just no..

Naa.. Italian BB:s; Giulio Premium Cesare is good (good luck getting one) and Roma is brilliant, high tier silver ships the exhaust smoke is useful to get out of trouble but they lack consistent hitting power

Hmm.. EU DD:S at high tier are very good, mid tiers are a pain to get through, yes, I would say they are worth the pain tho..

Urrrk.. Dutch cruisers, dunno, and as far as I have seen most unicum streamers agree on them being weak apart from the carpet bombing stupidity, I ing hate gimmick based ships..

 

 

[Itwastuesday]

6 hours ago, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

THE LINES
-- USA slow BB line. Agony to play in coop in the current meta.    Already abandoned it semi-officially TBH
-- Italian BB line. Agonising dispersion. Love the Giulio Cesare premium(who doesn't?), and the Italian cruisers are OK, but the BBs are no fun at the moment.
-- EU DD line. I reckon that they would be great for random battles, but I do not play them. Weak alpha punch, and though the reload is quick….in coop, one set of torps is often all you get before the battle ends.
-- Dutch cruisers. Lack punch without the gimmick of the air strike. Planes and me do not mix. (Hopeless in CVs, with spotter planes etc.(Spent hours in the training room and still cannot get the hang of airstrike, except on a stationary target!). No ASW, and (as yet) no torpedoes to play with.

 

Thanks in advance. All thoughts welcome (even from certain Colonels)!

 

- The US Superdreadnoughts might just be too slow for co-op. You could practice long-ranged american shots though. 

- RMBB... I think you could like smoke up close to something and smash it with AP in co-op? Just as long as you accept that more often than not it does nothing, since this line is about doing nothing. You had Kurfurst right? How would you like vastly less effective guns that reload slower and have less range?

- The Ikea DD is all about running away while sniping useless torps and complaining that the best AA isn't good enough vs carrier menace. They got decent, if short ranged guns, but I'd think you'll have a better experience in any other dd line in co-op. 

- BRAND ALARM! The T8 Haarlem is the cockroach king of T8 cruisers, very survivable. I'd suggest you try them a bit. Landing a good airstrike on a soft-skinned target is pretty satisfying. If you just don't get anything out of seeing hilarious numbers after some parachutes fall down, I would suspect this line isn't for you. 

[MadBadDave]

Eu line really begins at Skane, Oland can be fun while ostergotland and Halland are definitely worth the grind, Dutch cruisers are hard work but can also be fun, low gun damage (except Golden lion which is definitely the best bote in the tech tree), lack of torps and erratic air strikes count against them though.

 

BTW EU DDs helped me play better as I did tend to rely on smoke, having no smoke promotes better map/situational awareness 😉.

[GulvkluderGuld]

9 hours ago, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

THE QUESTION
Should I grind any of the outstanding lines?
I need to know if what I have seen so far is true of the rest of the line or do they improve later on up-tier?

Nothing outstanding about those 

Completionist here for the anniversary SCs....

 

There are some decent ships in there, but I'm not sure I'd recommend them for a Coop peasant.

- USN snail BS: only Vermont is semi decent because of the heaviest broadside in the game. Not useful for coop though, and the rest are fit only for sado-masochists or completionists.

- Italian tier 9 Lepanto was fun. Reminds me of playing Frederich the great, but with 50% more barrels and therefore, hits.  Also good armor and smoke for the lols. Didnt bother playing the tier X, I dont enjoy BBs.

- EU tier 9 and 10 are good and fun. But i have Småland so I never play them. 

- Dutch cruisers were an aquired taste, but I ended up enjoying them and especially their results in chat .

Air-poop every 30s 4 times and usually at least one fire makes BB players detonate (not their ships)Positions like Cleveland to get in range of bow-tankers, but uses air-poop instead of radar.

[Yedwy]

@op For coop none if the lines has sense, german BCs that you intend to grind anyway are better (speed, secs and torps) then any other BB line in the game for rushing down bots in coop

 

IJN torp boats with Torp reload booster are the best line for coop executions, gunboats are also ok as they have trbr and insane dakka to boot

 

New PAN asian CL line will prob be decent in coop with those massive torp walls

 

We are talking higher mid and high tiers here ofc

[Spartan_Renegade]

[Harvin87]

My first T10 was the Halland as I really enjoy the EU DD line, it suits my gameplay... I never even if available use smoke in DDs, only in cruisers. But tbh, somehow I liked the Östergötland better than the Halland... who knows why.

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 18 Stunden, Admiral_H_Nelson sagte:

My time is not unlimited.  I have many great ships to play, so I need a good reason to spend the time to grind a line.

 

I want to regrind the tier 9 ships Friedrich der Grosse & Taskkent because G.K and Khaba will be replaced at tier 10 in 2022.
I also will grind the German BB#2 lin, and German DD#2 line because….err……German.

 

I think your answer is in your post already.

[Sir_Sinksalot]

17 hours ago, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

I am posting as a coop peasant, so please bear this in mind and have pity.  (And sorry for the long post)

 

STATUS
I have been having fun playing again (except for the submarine fiasco, of course), and started to grind those lines which I had suspended or not even started.

 

My time is not unlimited.  I have many great ships to play, so I need a good reason to spend the time to grind a line.

 

I want to regrind the tier 9 ships Friedrich der Grosse & Taskkent because G.K and Khaba will be replaced at tier 10 in 2022.
I also will grind the German BB#2 lin, and German DD#2 line because….err……German.

 

 

Co-op is a great outlet for simply chilling and shooting some ships in a relaxed environment when a bit tired from work or simply not in the mood to take on anything more challenging at that time so I do like Co-op in that regards. Plus of course, it's great for completing missions that might otherwise prove much longer to complete via random battles etc, such as main battery hits, kill counts, capping, defending caps etc, all of that. 

 

Unfortunately for grinding, especially higher tier grinding, it kinda sucks balls tbh. XP, crew XP, free XP, credits it all takes a notable hit compared to playing randoms or other PvP modes. Sure, you can use xp and credit buffing signals in co-op but when you think of how much more you would have got playing randoms with those same signals it seems very wasteful.

 

Also when it comes to DD play and even some other classes, I've found randoms to be far more rewarding. The problem with Co-op is that the enemy bots are dialed into the bloody Matrix which means they know exactly where you are at all times, they know when they're being targeted, where your torps are and react in ways that generally most human players never will, both good ways and bad ways. When playing a DD they already know where you are and follow you even though you were never detected. They know where your torps are and start to evade them long before the actual detection range plus when they launch torps at you they're the most pixel perfect spread you'll ever see, almost unavoidable no matter what you do lol and when you play a cruiser and BB, have the broadside of a bot ship, they instantly reacted and point bow on at you. This means that when they sail onto your torps and give you their broadside that's also purposefully done, all of which feels unsatisfying and unrewarding. Fine, it's ok for chilling but I'd recommend that just like me recently, you dip your toe in random battles too. I don't play randoms as every battle, but for getting bonuses and such, it's just way better and then I mix it up after that depending on my mood. 

 

In regards the ships you've mentioned the only one of those I bothered with in a meaningful way would be the EU DD's and those are indeed fun in ANY game mode, less so for Co-op for reasons stated "The Matrix!" but I'm sure you play Scenarios too? The Vasteras on Aegis is just one of the most fun non-PvP mode DD maps there is. I've found the Skane to be an interesting play on Narai but not as much fun as a BB so rarely gets a run yet it's really good fun in randoms even for T7 MM. I'm grinding through the T8 Oland at the moment. Again it's a fun a DD at least in randoms with those fast EU torpedo speeds and fast torp reload time but I play it more as a passive torpedo boat tbh just because that's what I enjoy doing with DD's. That said, if you're unchanged about staying playing Co-op indefinitely then you're not missing out on anything much tbh. 

 

 

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

UPDATE.

Thanks to everyone for their feedback. I appreciated it very much.

I played the lines for about a week afterwards. I looked very carefully for all of the characteristics of each line that were mentioned in the comments.

You were right!

 

NEW STATUS
-- USA slow BB line. ABANDONED
-- Italian BB line. Free XP to get tier 8 Vittorio Veneto.  It will be used for Italian Missions. REST OF LINE ABANDONED
-- EU DD line. ABANDONED. The weakest guns, weakest torpedoes, Clumsiest and most fragile DDs that I have ever experienced. Not good for coop at all.
-- Dutch cruisers. Cannot get the hang of airstrike(*), but I love the Dutch so I will keep trying them for the "Daily Double XP" for a while longer.

 

 

(*) Even after practicing in the Training room.

Bots on the other hand seem to have psychic powers to know which direction my ship will turn when they use airstrike against me.

OR IS THIS ONE OF THE INFAMOUS BOT "CHEATS"

 

 

[MadBadDave]

Slow US line - didn’t bother.

Italian line - didn’t bother 

EU DD, got Halland, line handicapped by Torp damage but gunfight guns and effective AA, as with Dutch cruisers it’s a long hard slog until you get to T10, Golden Lion can tank as well as Petro and Halland can dominate if played well.

[MoveZig]

I think if you hate being the squishiest thing around as a cruiser, the high-tier Dutch are a good line to play. The combination of a thick main belt and very low citadel means you shouldn't be eating random cits at all sorts of weird angles. Plus the AA really is punitive on t9 and t10,  and you always have Def AA, so if you hate CVs it's also a good line to play. You might be discouraged by the horrible dispersion on Haarlem, but JDW is noticeably better. Personally, I'm enjoying these ships. Not happy with the decision to not give them any sort of ASW though.

[Prophecy82]

On 10/25/2021 at 4:23 PM, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

THE LINES
-- USA slow BB line. Agony to play in coop in the current meta.    Already abandoned it semi-officially TBH

Skipped that line and FXP´ed to Vermont right away. Vermont is a slug but the guns are insane and very satisfying. 

 

 

On 10/25/2021 at 4:23 PM, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

-- Italian BB line. Agonising dispersion. Love the Giulio Cesare premium(who doesn't?), and the Italian cruisers are OK, but the BBs are no fun at the moment.

T7 Cappuchino got better over time. Skipped T8. Love the T9 and T10... I think they are fun.  

On 10/25/2021 at 4:23 PM, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

-- EU DD line. I reckon that they would be great for random battles, but I do not play them. Weak alpha punch, and though the reload is quick….in coop, one set of torps is often all you get before the battle ends.

T9 and T10 are OK-ish

T10 kills planes efficiently... in most cases.. which is a nice gimmick. 

Still not a line I would play for fun.

 

On 10/25/2021 at 4:23 PM, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

-- Dutch cruisers. Lack punch without the gimmick of the air strike. Planes and me do not mix. (Hopeless in CVs, with spotter planes etc.(Spent hours in the training room and still cannot get the hang of airstrike, except on a stationary target!). No ASW, and (as yet) no torpedoes to play with.

Eendracht was a painful POG. Skipped Haarlem. T9 and T10 are actually nice ships, both are keepers for me.

[Altsak]

Most of the lines (except USN BB line) are meant to milk frexp out of the players pockets. So yes, they get better the higher you go. Usually the sweet ships are T9 and T10.

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

On 10/25/2021 at 4:23 PM, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

I am posting as a coop peasant, so please bear this in mind and have pity.  (And sorry for the long post)

 

STATUS
I have been having fun playing again (except for the submarine fiasco, of course), and started to grind those lines which I had suspended or not even started.

 

My time is not unlimited.  I have many great ships to play, so I need a good reason to spend the time to grind a line.

 

I want to regrind the tier 9 ships Friedrich der Grosse & Taskkent because G.K and Khaba will be replaced at tier 10 in 2022.
I also will grind the German BB#2 lin, and German DD#2 line because….err……German.

 

THE QUESTION
Should I grind any of the outstanding lines?
I need to know if what I have seen so far is true of the rest of the line or do they improve later on up-tier?

 

THE LINES
-- USA slow BB line. Agony to play in coop in the current meta.    Already abandoned it semi-officially TBH
-- Italian BB line. Agonising dispersion. Love the Giulio Cesare premium(who doesn't?), and the Italian cruisers are OK, but the BBs are no fun at the moment.
-- EU DD line. I reckon that they would be great for random battles, but I do not play them. Weak alpha punch, and though the reload is quick….in coop, one set of torps is often all you get before the battle ends.
-- Dutch cruisers. Lack punch without the gimmick of the air strike. Planes and me do not mix. (Hopeless in CVs, with spotter planes etc.(Spent hours in the training room and still cannot get the hang of airstrike, except on a stationary target!). No ASW, and (as yet) no torpedoes to play with.

 

Thanks in advance. All thoughts welcome (even from certain Colonels)!

 

Swedish DDs, rest is kind of crap! Östergötland is a bif step up and Halland is torp soup deluxe with decent guns, heal and best AA in game so big F-U to all CV mains.

[BLUB__BLUB]

Hahaha I just finished regrinding the slow US BBs for the 5th time...

And I have te T9 Minnesota for the fatties, halfway to Vermont. 

Somehow I like these ships... 

 

Spoiler