Sub blog out. Cheat torps retained, but other asked-for changes are implemented

[SodaBubbles]

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/237

A mixed bag, but at least notable for its candor. They seem determined to ram subs down our throats no matter how unpopular they are, sadly. They learned nothing from CVs. 

But at least they worked hard to polish this turd and at least they were open about it. 

Note that they removed the damage bonus.  

 

To address this issue, while also preserving the unique gameplay we've built for submarines, we've reworked their torpedoes, splitting them into two types that will receive different bonuses from their use in conjunction with sonar pings.

• The first type are homing torpedoes. Their maneuverability will be reduced, and the distance at which they stop homing on destroyers and cruisers will be increased twofold. The rest of the parameters and mechanics of these torpedoes remain similar to the current ones on the live server: the first ping activates homing, the second ping improves it, but doesn't make it better than how it is now on the main server. However, the successfully Sonar Pinged torpedoes no longer receive any bonus to their damage.
• The second type are torpedoes with a magnetic detonator. Their base damage is somewhat higher than that of homing torpedoes. The first ping reduces the torpedoes' detectability by 25%, and the second ping doubles their damage if they hit the torpedo protection. These torpedoes can potentially deal a lot of damage, but they do not have any horizontal homing at all — when the Ping effect is active, they can only ascend or descend to match the level of the target.

[SodaBubbles]

Also, it would great if some kind of reward were offered for using the players as guinea pigs for a live test in Randoms.

[PaP_Mentoles]

Just another example of empty wording, sloppy implementation, nothing regarding the Damage Control Party just to meet the spreadshit numbers.

Didn't expect anything else from WeGreedy

[PaP_Mentoles]

Just now, SodaBubbles said:

Also, it would great if some kind of reward were offered for using the players as guinea pigs for a live test in Randoms.

What do you mean? Isn't pressing G enough rewarding and fun? 

[arttuperkunas]

@YabbaCoe, can you clarify something in the devblog. It said double pinged homing torps no longer get bonus damage... However, can you please clarify:

 

a. do they still ignore torpedo protection?

b. do they still lead to citadels?

 

As far as I can see, this was not addressed in the dev blog one way or the other.

 

(edit: as a sidenote, I think it's hilarious that subs have "exceeded" their popularity goal; the five year plan was completed in four years! huzzah!)

 

 

[SodaBubbles]

18 minutes ago, PaP_Mentoles said:

Just another example of empty wording, sloppy implementation, nothing regarding the Damage Control Party just to meet the spreadshit numbers.

Didn't expect anything else from WeGreedy

I didn't expect them to do anything about DCP. The devs have repeatedly been disingenuous in their presentations about DCP and pings, signaling that griefing with pings is here to stay. At that level of malice, they are obviously enjoying the players' dismay at their idiotic assignment of DCP to handle pings. 

 

Fundamentally, subs remain garbage. But look at the positive side -- they were open about what they did and why. I think someone has finally explained to the head office that they run a company that markets a product, and are not running a Tsarist state in which the serfs can be expected to stay on the estates no matter how they are mistreated.

[YabbaCoe]

10 minutes ago, arttuperkunas said:

@YabbaCoe, can you clarify something in the devblog. It said double pinged homing torps no longer get bonus damage... However, can you please clarify:

 

a. do they still ignore torpedo protection?

b. do they still lead to citadels?

 

As far as I can see, this was not addressed in the dev blog one way or the other.

 

(edit: as a sidenote, I think it's hilarious that subs have "exceeded" their popularity goal; the five year plan was completed in four years! huzzah!)

 

 

The first type are homing torpedoes. Their maneuverability will be reduced, and the distance at which they stop homing on destroyers and cruisers will be increased twofold. The rest of the parameters and mechanics of these torpedoes remain similar to the current ones on the live server: the first ping activates homing, the second ping improves it, but doesn't make it better than how it is now on the main server. However, the successfully Sonar Pinged torpedoes no longer receive any bonus to their damage.

It's important to remember that anti-torpedo protection coefficient reduces the damage of these torpedoes (as well as the ones we currently have on the live server).

 

I am not sure about citadels, but they shouldn't ignore torpedo belt. 

So the plan mostly is, that you either have homing torps which deal some damage, or magnetic detonator ones, which deal more damage but doesn't home to the target.

[Fat_Maniac]

Its an improvement. get horizontal homing but no dmg bonus or double dmg if you hit torp protection but with no horizontal homing WASD hacks should counter. Time will tell if it works.

 

[arttuperkunas]

1 minute ago, YabbaCoe said:

The first type are homing torpedoes. Their maneuverability will be reduced, and the distance at which they stop homing on destroyers and cruisers will be increased twofold. The rest of the parameters and mechanics of these torpedoes remain similar to the current ones on the live server: the first ping activates homing, the second ping improves it, but doesn't make it better than how it is now on the main server. However, the successfully Sonar Pinged torpedoes no longer receive any bonus to their damage.

It's important to remember that anti-torpedo protection coefficient reduces the damage of these torpedoes (as well as the ones we currently have on the live server).

 

I am not sure about citadels, but they shouldn't ignore torpedo belt. 

So the plan mostly is, that you either have homing torps which deal some damage, or magnetic detonator ones, which deal more damage but doesn't home to the target.

Ok, I had a little trouble parsing the text you cited (which I did read, but did not fully understand). I suppose that does mean that the torps will no longer ignore torpedo protection.

[MementoMori_6030]

So... do the US subs get Mark 14 torps with Mark 6 magnetic exploders? 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_14_torpedo

[BanzaiPiluso]

[Asatori]

Look if Sub_O has to go to corporate and tell them that the money they invested on developing submarines was a waste and that they won't see a return of investment he gets fired. (Or whomever was responsible for this waste of money)

So just like the CV rework we get this abomination rammed through our throats just because some knobhead developers are too afraid to admit they made a big mistake.

 

Just like wit the CV rework we will only see small minor changes to subs from now, if they have to change too much now they will never make the money invested back and the developers would still have to admit they made mistakes, and this is soviet russia we do not admit makeing mistakes. 

 

So the playerbase gets stuck with this underdeveloped monstrosity, just because money was invested and noone at WG will admit that it was a wrong choice to develop submarines in the first place. 

 

Funny part about the graphs they showed for me is that they are so desperate to show submarines are ok (btw a good gameplay experience for players can't be read from a spreadsheet you morons!) that they have to admit that CVs are completely broken (the CV spotting in gold league says it all...)

[BanzaiPiluso]

What about a 3rd kind of torps, one that goes puff with glitter to spread love and happiness around the world.

 

[Redwing6891]

You forgot to mention the obligatory captain skill re-work that will follow as sure as night follows day...

[Redwing6891]

32 minutes ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

So... do the US subs get Mark 14 torps with Mark 6 magnetic exploders? 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_14_torpedo

Well, at least we know now where the spiritual ancestors of the WoWS submarine developers worked...

 

BuShips didn't want to listen to the submariners either. Lucky for them they could ignore directives and modify the exploder themselves so that it worked. If only we had that option... toggle switch to de-activate submarines and CVs in WoWS... please cut the red wire...

[nlegolass]

Well I guess that's a bit better... Not sure.

 

But to be honest the biggest problem with subs is their incredible spotting ability... It breaks at least 50% of the game's mechanics.

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 7 Minuten, Redwing6891 sagte:

Well, at least we know now where the spiritual ancestors of the WoWS submarine developers worked...

 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

It's a start. Some changes will be effective to a degree and a help in mitigating the griefing. Core counterplay issues will need to be adressed in the near future: high underwaterspeed vs. destroyers, risk free pingspam abuse and the surface/periscope depth detection game leaning too heavy towards subs with little to no downsides.

Looking forward to test these, but not in random mode if possible, thanks. I still have premium time running for which we do not seem to get compensated at all while testing these things even in their broken stages on the live server in the main battle mode. Can someone ask @YabbaCoe about compensation for testing like this?

[Tanaka_15]

56 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

The first type are homing torpedoes. Their maneuverability will be reduced, and the distance at which they stop homing on destroyers and cruisers will be increased twofold. The rest of the parameters and mechanics of these torpedoes remain similar to the current ones on the live server: the first ping activates homing, the second ping improves it, but doesn't make it better than how it is now on the main server. However, the successfully Sonar Pinged torpedoes no longer receive any bonus to their damage.

It's important to remember that anti-torpedo protection coefficient reduces the damage of these torpedoes (as well as the ones we currently have on the live server).

 

I am not sure about citadels, but they shouldn't ignore torpedo belt. 

So the plan mostly is, that you either have homing torps which deal some damage, or magnetic detonator ones, which deal more damage but doesn't home to the target.

well this seems to be step in right direction. Still subs are way to fast underwater. 

[arttuperkunas]

10 minutes ago, Europizza said:

It's a start. Some changes will be effective to a degree and a help in mitigating the griefing. Core counterplay issues will need to be adressed in the near future: high underwaterspeed vs. destroyers, risk free pingspam and the surface/periscope depth detection game leaning too heavy towards subs with little to no downsides.

Looking forward to test these, but not in random mode if possible, thanks. I still have premium time running for which we do not seem to get compensated at all while testing these things even in their broken stages on the live server in the main battle mode. Can someone ask @YabbaCoe about compensation for testing like this?

The issue of sub speed really depends on what WG wants the sub/dd interaction to be. If they want it to be more a case of subs revealing DDs than DDs hunting subs, then it's probably more or less fine. If they really want ship-dropped depth charges to be a viable weapon rather than a tool of last resort, then sub underwater speeds need to be looked at.

[Cippalippus]

That's it I guess. Was a fun ride.

[Rockstone_III]

I think these are good changes... In particular the change in homing, dealing (far) less damage.

Interesting twist with the magnetic detonation torpedo, no homing but more damage. Should make sub gameplay more interesting...

 

[Yedwy]

Not good, subs get double damage torps vs BBs (you know things that actually have meaningfull torpedo damage reduction belts) if they are somewhat capable of assesing how fast the torpedo can ascend they will have devstrike wepons from stealth now…

Hint to WG devs that dont play their own game - you can’t see the f* torps untill they are at least at about the deepwater level as they are not rendered until then…

 

Oh yes and Btw afaik all torpedo damage amidships is counted as citadel damage If the target has citadel even if you dont get the ribbon, try repairing the damage when couple of torps slam into your side and tell me how much it healed back…

[Prophecy82]

@YabbaCoe

 

Can you pls answer a few questions?

 

1. How long will this sub test last? Or are you just ninja-implementing them (like: "Nah, its still a temporary test, but it just never ends)

2. What will you do about "operational depth spotting"? As it is right now, its suicidal to try to hunt a sub in a DD, if that sub has allies left anywhere. 

3. You do know, that these magnetic torps make it easier to shotgun-DDs. Are you planning on making them like DWT? 

 

Edit. 

 

4. Since you still havent given Okhotnik any ASW, can we expect you will give it strike planes as compensation? 

[NoirLotus]

Some changes are good, but am I the only one who find a bit counter intuitive that torpedo protection can cause you to take MORE damage ??