Best Use of 18 Skill Points on IJN and EU DD's

[Sir_Sinksalot]

Hi guys,

 

Just putting this question out there while I still have a few days left of skill resetting. Why 18 points and not 15 or 21? Simply, because that's what both Commanders currently have lol... also I guess 17/18 skill points is fairly attainable with some free premium time and signals when played in the well rewarded random battles and other forms  PvP game modes featuring decent amounts of ships like ranked.

 

Right then. To focus in a little more specifically, I'm only talking T8 and upward, not anything lower tier because I'm not really playing there. Currently running with the Kagero and Oland. They're interesting styles that differ from each other in their guns, detection, torpedo characteristics, consumable options such as the IJN's torpedo reload booster compared to the Eurpean's repair party and Defensive AA fire so just go about their business differently.

 

So I'm guessing the first 10 points is a shared thing such as 

 

1. Preventative Maintenance(I go with incoming fire alert because noob but shhhhh, lets ignore that))

2. Last Stand because you need to have control of your destroyer at all times

3. Survivability Expert because its a DD with the smallest HP pool and every extra bit helps, higher the tier, more you get, and we're higher tier lol.

4 Concealment Expert.... because.

 

Right, so that's 10 skill points used. Where do the next 8 go?

 

Currently I see good value in using 3 for Adrenaline Rush because DD's lose a lot of health pretty quickly. The Europeans can gain some of that back which makes this skill interesting because using a repair party effectively will effectively nerf the gains you make with AR... interesting.

 

The IJN is more of a torpedo based DD and do play them for that sneaky bar steward playsytle and as such I'm very tempted to put 3 skill points into Fill the Tubes for a -10% reload time which I'm assuming will combine with any gains made by the AR skill for possibly as much as -26% reload times... nice right?

 

The European torps aren't big bangers but they are incredibly fast so for those DD's I played around with Swift Fish for +5% torp speed which combines with the torpedo equipment to create some pretty rocket like torps lol! Detection is the same but when they're coming at that speed, wow, some sight to behold. Also I tried the Swift In Silence Skill on the European DD for 4 points and that was actually fun. It was like having a perma Engine booster so long as I remained unspotted and allowed me to scoot about the map that bit faster, even more faster when working with the engine booster consumable itself. Great fun to have a DD that fast with torpedoes that fast lol... but I kinda felt like it was a waste of 4 skill points.

 

Anyway, enough with the walls of texts. Where would you DD junkies place 18 skill points on these two higher tier nations?

[Murqy]

For EU DD:s, If you only have 18 point captains I would advice your current basic build (10p). Go adrenaline rush and Radio location (this is almost obligatory to have since u dont have any smoke to disengage with and also rather slow turret traverse). Use radio location to always have ur guns pointed in the right direction and send pre-torps  in the direction of enemy DD:s. Last point I would put in the 1 point skill that gives better gun traverse (usefull up till you get Halland). Last 3 points for torp reload. Swift fish is nice and fun, but doesnt give enough compared to what you have to give up just to have it. This is a good generalised captain which I currently use as a permanent cap for Östergötland.

 

Halland is similiar, except last 1 point is for flooding chance instead of gun traverse. Öland and Skåne is running the same first 17, with Öland last 4 on brawler and Skåne with the 3 point gun reload perk (to get the 3 sec gun reload, its an underrated gunboat for tier 7).

[Verblonde]

14 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Where would you DD junkies place 18 skill points on these two higher tier nations?

Bearing in mind I'm not very good, it depends a bit on which branch you're talking about for the IJN - Shima line calls for going a bit more torp-heavy by default (although you can turn her into a worthwhile gunboat if you want to), whereas the other line is all about the dakka from T8 and up.

 

For the Ikeas, I tend to go with the following (21 points):

 

For 18, I would omit PT and flooding. The logic is: 'standard' ten points, then extra healing potion, then AR because it works on anything (bonus points for magic captain with that skill boosted); follow that with even faster torps (Ikea torps make squeaky toy noises when they hit, so you want to maximise number of hits).

 

For context, this is my Halland build that the above captain is working with:

 

If you don't already know about it, the Fitting Tool site is useful for playing with potential builds (both ship and captain): https://wowsft.com/

 

Some further notes on my captain:

• I find PT very useful; many expert players don't - if your situational awareness is razor-sharp, you can do without this.
• I don't run RL; many expert players will consider me a blithering idiot for this! I prefer not to tell people that I know roughly where they are, but there are situations where you will miss it if you don't have it.
• I used to go a bit more torp-centric, but this captain is also used on Smaland, so the build is as much for her as for Halland (although it does work on Halland pretty well).

[MementoMori_6030]

For IJN torpedoboats:

[Ze_Reckless]

20 minutes ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

For IJN torpedoboats:

Flooding chance is pretty high already, I would choose the turret traverse instead. The guns hit like a truck so it's worth to have them on target sooner.

 

Swift in Silence is a skill 'for fun', Radio Location is way more useful for defense (invisible threats) and offense (blind torpedoes). RL is easier to use effectively, most players won't benefit from SiS.

[Yedwy]

I would go survival skills for first 10pt then next 6 into the torp skills and then 3 into AR (19pt) after that IDK maybe PT or Save the flood chance point for bft at 21

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

1 hour ago, Verblonde said:

Ikea torps make squeaky toy noises

Where do I send the invoice for a new keyboard?

Ruined the last one by reading your comment whilst drinking a cup of tea!

 

[Migantium_Mashum]

If you've got low concealment I believe extra health isn't needed if you play right. 

I value Radio Location because it prepares you and blind firing torpedoes really does mess up the enemy plans.

 

My Shima 

 

 

 

[Yedwy]

Just now, Migantium_Mashum said:

If you've got low concealment I believe extra health isn't needed if you play right. 

I value Radio Location because it prepares you and blind firing torpedoes really does mess up the enemy plans.

 

My Shima 

 

 

 

That is a valid point as well

[Verblonde]

26 minutes ago, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

Where do I send the invoice for a new keyboard?

Probably LWM: I can't remember if I'm quoting her, or being inspired by her. At one point (Smaland review, maybe?) she described Ikea torp hits as being something like 'fluffy bunny kisses' or similar. I don't remember if 'squeaky toys' is also hers...

 

(I'd probably pay money for the game to make said squeaky toy noises whenever an Ikea torp hits though...)

[Margin_Walker]

I'd go standard 10 point, 

Radio Location

Adrenaline Rush or Torp reload - Depends on playstyle

Turret traverse - Or more likely save the point until you are up to three again to take one of the skills above. 

 

I use radio location on pretty much every DD and most cruisers at the moment. Find the information it gives you worth the dpm trade.

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 1 Stunde, Ze_Reckless sagte:

Flooding chance is pretty high already, I would choose the turret traverse instead. The guns hit like a truck so it's worth to have them on target sooner.

Flooding chance depends a lot on which IJN DD you play and if your target employs additional protective skills. Especially the low tier torps do profit a lot from the additional flooding modifier. Turret traverse is unimportant, because you should not use your guns unless your life depends on it, and with your superior concealment you can turn your turrets well in advance to have an emergency shot ready.

Vor 1 Stunde, Ze_Reckless sagte:

Swift in Silence is a skill 'for fun'

Again, it depends on the DD. There are some pretty slow IJN boats, and getting in position and away with extra speed is - to me - a big help.

Vor 1 Stunde, Ze_Reckless sagte:

Radio Location is way more useful for defense (invisible threats)

IJN DD are so stealthy that they usually spot the enemy well before they get spotted themselves, so I see RL as a tool for DD with bad concealment.

Vor 1 Stunde, Ze_Reckless sagte:

RL is easier to use effectively

And alerts the target...

 

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 1 Stunde, Yedwy sagte:

I would go survival skills for first 10pt then next 6 into the torp skills and then 3 into AR (19pt) after that IDK maybe PT or Save the flood chance point for bft at 21

I usually don't take AR on stealthy torp DDs. If you play well, you won't be spotted and damaged at all - and the 3 points are wasted... but if you get spotted and damaged, AR is not really a lifesaver. 

[tocqueville8]

 

1) Oland with 18 points (with 3 more, I'd go Superintendent, as the problem with the torps is the low number, not the reload imho)

Stock turret traverse is 10°/s, a bit on the slow side for a ship with such good concealment.

 

 

 

2) Halland with 21 points - hybrid build

I think RPF is kind of mandatory on a slowish, smokeless DD.

You can take the torpedo reload module in slot #6, but the increase chance of incapacitations is annoying.

You can also take Fearless Brawler instead of torpedo reload and flooding chance, but you're still not a gunboat, not compared to Daring, Marceau and such.

 

 

3) Kagero, Yugumo, Shima

Once again, you can take Fearless Brawler instead of RPF, but I find the latter is more useful both defensively (need to run away) and offensively (you outspot almost anything: go and find light them up for your team), depending on the respective hp and team support.

 

At least, this is what I run.

To be fair, I could never quite make the Halland work 

[General_Alexus]

2 hours ago, Ze_Reckless said:

Flooding chance is pretty high already, I would choose the turret traverse instead. The guns hit like a truck so it's worth to have them on target sooner.

 

Swift in Silence is a skill 'for fun', Radio Location is way more useful for defense (invisible threats) and offense (blind torpedoes). RL is easier to use effectively, most players won't benefit from SiS.

Radio location is a double edged sword, it makes alot of things easier, but also makes it realy easy for a target to tell if you are close. I noticed my Torp hitrate increese alot when not having RL skilled as people are more unsuspecting.

[Yedwy]

48 minutes ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

I usually don't take AR on stealthy torp DDs. If you play well, you won't be spotted and damaged at all - and the 3 points are wasted... but if you get spotted and damaged, AR is not really a lifesaver. 

Well he asked about pan-EU as well they all have heals and T8+ can get into a gunfight too if needbe and survive more often then not…

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

3 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Hi guys,

 

Just putting this question out there while I still have a few days left of skill resetting. Why 18 points and not 15 or 21? Simply, because that's what both Commanders currently have lol... also I guess 17/18 skill points is fairly attainable with some free premium time and signals when played in the well rewarded random battles and other forms  PvP game modes featuring decent amounts of ships like ranked.

 

Right then. To focus in a little more specifically, I'm only talking T8 and upward, not anything lower tier because I'm not really playing there. Currently running with the Kagero and Oland. They're interesting styles that differ from each other in their guns, detection, torpedo characteristics, consumable options such as the IJN's torpedo reload booster compared to the Eurpean's repair party and Defensive AA fire so just go about their business differently.

 

So I'm guessing the first 10 points is a shared thing such as 

 

1. Preventative Maintenance(I go with incoming fire alert because noob but shhhhh, lets ignore that))

2. Last Stand because you need to have control of your destroyer at all times

3. Survivability Expert because its a DD with the smallest HP pool and every extra bit helps, higher the tier, more you get, and we're higher tier lol.

4 Concealment Expert.... because.

 

Right, so that's 10 skill points used. Where do the next 8 go?

 

Currently I see good value in using 3 for Adrenaline Rush because DD's lose a lot of health pretty quickly. The Europeans can gain some of that back which makes this skill interesting because using a repair party effectively will effectively nerf the gains you make with AR... interesting.

 

The IJN is more of a torpedo based DD and do play them for that sneaky bar steward playsytle and as such I'm very tempted to put 3 skill points into Fill the Tubes for a -10% reload time which I'm assuming will combine with any gains made by the AR skill for possibly as much as -26% reload times... nice right?

 

The European torps aren't big bangers but they are incredibly fast so for those DD's I played around with Swift Fish for +5% torp speed which combines with the torpedo equipment to create some pretty rocket like torps lol! Detection is the same but when they're coming at that speed, wow, some sight to behold. Also I tried the Swift In Silence Skill on the European DD for 4 points and that was actually fun. It was like having a perma Engine booster so long as I remained unspotted and allowed me to scoot about the map that bit faster, even more faster when working with the engine booster consumable itself. Great fun to have a DD that fast with torpedoes that fast lol... but I kinda felt like it was a waste of 4 skill points.

 

Anyway, enough with the walls of texts. Where would you DD junkies place 18 skill points on these two higher tier nations?

For IJN torp boats RPF is a great investment because that makes you control the engagements. After that you build for AR and torps (reload, speed and flood).

 

For regular Swedish DDs you go for AR and torps as well, if you have Småland you build for guns. Jerzy legendary captain is OP A-F which you trigger every match.

 

 

[totally_potato]

5 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Hi guys,

 

Just putting this question out there while I still have a few days left of skill resetting. Why 18 points and not 15 or 21? Simply, because that's what both Commanders currently have lol... also I guess 17/18 skill points is fairly attainable with some free premium time and signals when played in the well rewarded random battles and other forms  PvP game modes featuring decent amounts of ships like ranked.

 

Right then. To focus in a little more specifically, I'm only talking T8 and upward, not anything lower tier because I'm not really playing there. Currently running with the Kagero and Oland. They're interesting styles that differ from each other in their guns, detection, torpedo characteristics, consumable options such as the IJN's torpedo reload booster compared to the Eurpean's repair party and Defensive AA fire so just go about their business differently.

 

So I'm guessing the first 10 points is a shared thing such as 

 

1. Preventative Maintenance(I go with incoming fire alert because noob but shhhhh, lets ignore that))

2. Last Stand because you need to have control of your destroyer at all times

3. Survivability Expert because its a DD with the smallest HP pool and every extra bit helps, higher the tier, more you get, and we're higher tier lol.

4 Concealment Expert.... because.

 

Right, so that's 10 skill points used. Where do the next 8 go?

 

Currently I see good value in using 3 for Adrenaline Rush because DD's lose a lot of health pretty quickly. The Europeans can gain some of that back which makes this skill interesting because using a repair party effectively will effectively nerf the gains you make with AR... interesting.

 

The IJN is more of a torpedo based DD and do play them for that sneaky bar steward playsytle and as such I'm very tempted to put 3 skill points into Fill the Tubes for a -10% reload time which I'm assuming will combine with any gains made by the AR skill for possibly as much as -26% reload times... nice right?

 

The European torps aren't big bangers but they are incredibly fast so for those DD's I played around with Swift Fish for +5% torp speed which combines with the torpedo equipment to create some pretty rocket like torps lol! Detection is the same but when they're coming at that speed, wow, some sight to behold. Also I tried the Swift In Silence Skill on the European DD for 4 points and that was actually fun. It was like having a perma Engine booster so long as I remained unspotted and allowed me to scoot about the map that bit faster, even more faster when working with the engine booster consumable itself. Great fun to have a DD that fast with torpedoes that fast lol... but I kinda felt like it was a waste of 4 skill points.

 

Anyway, enough with the walls of texts. Where would you DD junkies place 18 skill points on these two higher tier nations?

 

imo, this is the first 18 points you want to take on any torp boat DD, not just IJN or EU. 

As for the rest, it depends on what you want. For EU, i'd suggest SI for extra heal and DFAA, for IJN, you could take, main battery reload to reinforce your gunpower, as the guns hit hard, or you could go GtG and Pyro (mostly for subs and 10% fire chance ez mode)

 

[Sir_Sinksalot]

1 hour ago, General_Alexus said:

Radio location is a double edged sword, it makes alot of things easier, but also makes it realy easy for a target to tell if you are close. I noticed my Torp hitrate increese alot when not having RL skilled as people are more unsuspecting.

 

How does the RL skill make it really is for a target to tell if you're near?

[Trench4nt]

Vor 2 Stunden, tocqueville8 sagte:

 

1) Oland with 18 points (with 3 more, I'd go Superintendent, as the problem with the torps is the low number, not the reload imho)

Stock turret traverse is 10°/s, a bit on the slow side for a ship with such good concealment.

 

 

 

2) Halland with 21 points - hybrid build

I think RPF is kind of mandatory on a slowish, smokeless DD.

You can take the torpedo reload module in slot #6, but the increase chance of incapacitations is annoying.

You can also take Fearless Brawler instead of torpedo reload and flooding chance, but you're still not a gunboat, not compared to Daring, Marceau and such.

 

 

That is a good built and I use it on my Shima as well. For the European DDs, you may want to switch 1x1 with 1x2 to increase you flooding chance. European torps are not that good but, on the other hand, Halland's turret traverse is decent.

 

If you only have 18pts, go for the standard 10 points plus RPF and torpedo reload (17pts). Then wait for AR (20pts) and take the one pointer last. 

[Verblonde]

41 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

 

How does the RL skill make it really is for a target to tell if you're near?

When someone with RL is tracking you, you get an alert marker on the screen (which stays there); that tells you that you are the nearest thing to something with RL.

 

Based on the map, where your allies are, and the enemy team make-up (press and hold tab - I think - if you've forgotten), you can then make an educated guess as to what might be out there, and you already know you're the closest target to whatever it is, so you can infer where they are likely to be.

 

At the very least, you know to be on the alert for someone coming after you...

[General_Alexus]

42 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

 

How does the RL skill make it really is for a target to tell if you're near?

The closest target to you (the one RL points you to) get a little symbol on the HUD that they are the target beeing located by radio location (but of course no location indicator like the user of RL)

Now if you are a BB/CA permaspotted its not so clear where the DD is, especially if you have like 12+km concealment.

But if you see this little symbol and you have some teammates around, you know YOU are the closest target to the Ship using RL on you and most likely the target of the next torps comming.

[Sir_Sinksalot]

Interesting. Thanks.

 

But that being said, most players would feel the pro's of the RL skill outweigh the cons?

 

I tried it in a battle just now on both DD's. The Kagero battle ended badly but was just a complete horror show of team imbalance ROFL stomp so that was hardly much insight and the second battle featuring my Oland, was a much longer and typical battle, a far better testbed and that RL skill was really nice for several important moments such as...

 

1. A DD popped a smoke and I was able to hone in and hit him with a couple of torps but because they're European it probably only removed 5% health instead of killing him had they been Japanese death torps. I jest, he was in a bad way, not dead, but in no condition to get ballsy and try a gun fight there after.

 

2. I was given an "early alert" when the RL switched from that DD to an unseen target on the left of me which from that range and not spotted could only have been the other enemy DD in the battle, so I was able to react and leave instead of being spotted and possibly killed in a 2 vs 1 and probably 3 vs 1 with an enemy cruiser not too far away while I only had a couple of BB's drooling about aimlessly behind me for support lol. So that was really nice too.

 

3. An enemy Scharnhorst had made an aggressive push some time later after my BB's and most the team had all relocated to the other side of the map but I THINK he knew that I was on his case, and not because I was spamming torps at him, I was actually trying to get the perfect most broadside line of his BB but he seemed to keep reacting and chase me even though I wasn't seen. Because my Oland isn't really fast and he was flank speed, I was actually spotted at 5.8 km once so he was doing a pretty good job at keeping me on my toes regardless of me feinting an untrue direction while spotted etc. Anyway he was eventually picked off with a wall of European torps and floods finished him off but still, perhaps that RL notification kept his interest, perhaps not. Hard to know, maybe I'll ask him if it's not too late.

 

4. My team were now in total control but there was an enemy DD left if I didn't have RL there was literally no way I would have guessed that he went where he did, was a nice move on his part but thanks to the RL skill, I could simply straight line that sat-nav on my DD lol. 

[Ze_Reckless]

3 hours ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

Turret traverse is unimportant, because you should not use your guns unless your life depends on it, and with your superior concealment you can turn your turrets well in advance to have an emergency shot ready.

 

My play style is different, I use my guns whenever I can (i.e. it is safe and favourable) even when I play TRB Yugumo. The alpha and fire chance is just too good to miss out on.

 

Though since I have a 21 pointer I don't use the TT skill myself. RL helps me instead by always pointing to the closest target. Concealment doesn't help because the differences are too small (5.6 vs 6.0 isn't much especially with render delay) and doesn't help at all when you run into a Småland or radar Mino.

 

3 hours ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

Again, it depends on the DD. There are some pretty slow IJN boats, and getting in position and away with extra speed is - to me - a big help.

 

I have more than 800 battles on my Shima and Yugumo combined so I played around with a lot of different builds. SiS may be interesting for players like you and me in that regard but I wouldn't recommend it to someone who isn't sure about his preferences yet.

 

It's a fun skill to goof around with but a player who is new to IJN torp boats will benefit more from stronger skills like RL or other survival skills.

 

3 hours ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

IJN DD are so stealthy that they usually spot the enemy well before they get spotted themselves, so I see RL as a tool for DD with bad concealment.

And alerts the target...

 

Without RL I would need to change my play style for TRB Yugumo completely. There is too many invisible threats in this game (see concealment problem above). RL gives information that is vital for survival.

 

IMO RL is more important for the DDs that are food. The hunters usually have other tools and RL is just a bonus for them.

 

About alerting the target:

Most players don't notice that they are located. Some do notice but they don't know what it means.

And if you happen to run into someone who does know how to use your RL against you, you are dealing with a unicorn who probably knows what you are planning before you know it yourself. RL or not won't make much of a difference against him.

 

In short, RL doesn't really have a negative effect for you.

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 13 Stunden, Ze_Reckless sagte:

My play style is different

Yes! 

Zitat

I use my guns whenever I can (i.e. it is safe and favourable) even when I play TRB Yugumo. The alpha and fire chance is just too good to miss out on.

I basically gunned down everything in convoy mode with my Asashios. Yet still, in regular matches I would desist to give away my position at any cost.

Zitat

Though since I have a 21 pointer I don't use the TT skill myself. RL helps me instead by always pointing to the closest target. Concealment doesn't help because the differences are too small (5.6 vs 6.0 isn't much especially with render delay) and doesn't help at all when you run into a Småland or radar Mino.

Well, if you insist to play high tiers... I find the concealment advantage quite sufficient where I play, especially with no radar around.

Zitat

It's a fun skill to goof around with but a player who is new to IJN torp boats will benefit more from stronger skills like RL or other survival skills.

I'm not sure if RL is that helpful for new players, as you need to keep tabs on both the enemy team composition and known positions on the minimap to figure out what RL might be telling you.

Zitat

About alerting the target:

Most players don't notice that they are located. Some do notice but they don't know what it means.

And if you happen to run into someone who does know how to use your RL against you, you are dealing with a unicorn who probably knows what you are planning before you know it yourself. RL or not won't make much of a difference against him.

 

In short, RL doesn't really have a negative effect for you.

I'm all with you to assume I am probably facing complete tools, but still, i find RL more suitable for short range torps/crappy concealment DDs like Clemson than for high range torps/excellent concealment DDs like Isokaze.

 

But I concede, it all depends on personal preferences and playstyle what combination is working best for you.