Suggestion - Radar Should Show Ships In A Sweep, Not Perma-Spotted like LoS

[Sir_Sinksalot]

Hi guys.

 

What the F am I talking about? lol. 

 

Ok, I'm only recently back playing this game and my first regular involvement in Random Battles.

 

Here's my finding's as a noob in regards Radar ships and I do have a few radar cruisers myself so my suggestion is at least coming with a little experience, not much, but not blindly talking about something I don't know either. Also, it takes some experience to know both how and when to best use radar, it's certainly not just braindead about the map permanently exposing ships lol.

 

Rather than babble on, my suggestion is nothing more based on radar sweeps itself.

 

In this game, when you use radar, the target is fully exposed and remains so, just like is you spotted him with line of sight. This is not radar however and tbh, it's a little unfair, regardless of the experience needed to make the best use of radar.

 

What I am suggesting, is to still show the target, BUT, only like a radar would, intermittently in sweeps so that the target has brief moments of invisibility to at least throw some shots wide from enemy guns and give that target a little bit of a fair chance to try and maneuver aggressively so that those little blind moments where the enemy can't see you will result in a few missed shots, not just sit there in full view permanently for so long as the radar is active like we currently have.  

 

What do you guys think? It's nothing more than how radar operates or at least operated at the time.

 

This is just an example of how radar shows a target in sweeps. As you can see, it doesn't permanently show the target.

 

[Yedwy]

Not happening, the current iteration is already 2 complicated for the "average player" to understand...

[Sir_Sinksalot]

It's only a case of showing the ship and then not showing the ship in pretty much 2 second intervals. That's the short and simple version. 

 

How would having a ship shown for 2 seconds and then remain invisible for 2 seconds for the normal radar duration be complicated or hard to understand? It's practically the exact same thing as now just with broken exposure intervals. 

[Pikkozoikum]

I personally think, that Radar needs a change. It's one of the strongest consumables, but it's limited to some ships. That makes them often way higher valuable

[Yedwy]

2 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I personally think, that Radar needs a change. It's one of the strongest consumables, but it's limited to some ships. That makes them often way higher valuable

Agreed Radar should be a Slot 5 module with either VERY short duration or VERY short range or even both and the corresponding upgrades for it should be in the slot 6 and slot 3 as so one needs to give up something that hurts for having it and also can have it on any ship from the appropriate period, all radar skills should be 4 pt...

[Pikkozoikum]

Just now, Yedwy said:

Agreed Radar should be a Slot 5 module with either VERY short duration or VERY short range or even both and the corresponding upgrades for it should be in the slot 6 and slot 3 as so one needs to give up something that hurts for having it and also can have it on any ship from the appropriate period, all radar skills should be 4 pt...

I personally would have the idea to make the spotter plane like an alternative to Radar. That spotterplanes maybe circle a bit more, immun to dmg (altitude advantage) and also use ship-detection instant of air-detection.

The spotter plane would a very well for spotting like a radar, but in a different way and ships like Zao would get more value

 

the issue here is: More spotting pressure against stealthy ships

[Yedwy]

7 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I personally would have the idea to make the spotter plane like an alternative to Radar. That spotterplanes maybe circle a bit more, immun to dmg (altitude advantage) and also use ship-detection instant of air-detection.

The spotter plane would a very well for spotting like a radar, but in a different way and ships like Zao would get more value

 

the issue here is: More spotting pressure against stealthy ships

Nope that isnt same as radar, the smoke camping needs to have a counter and spotter planes dont do that, radar as radar is fine but as you said making it available only on certain ships of certain nations makes it unbalanced, if WG thinks that this would make BBs (might be a legitimate concern even though we already have several BBs with radar) 2 powerful it can be limited to DDs and Cruisers as current radar and made a targeting radar on BBs instead letting one have say -30% dispersion or something similar for the duration of the consumable...

[Camperdown]

What you are describing is search radar.

Warships also have targeting radar, which keeps a fixed beam on an acquired target. So the WoWs solution is not completely whacky.

As for the rest: WoWs is an arcade game, not a simulator. Because the graphics look so convincing, this is easy to forget. But the game is not optimised for realism, but for game experience. Ahem make that last bit profit maximation.

[Prophecy82]

Just had yet another match where a Cleveland failed to understand his radar range. 

 

Thing is, a good DD will pretty much never die to radar. yea, you can scare him off a cap for a moment but thats it. 

Given that radar is pretty much the only consumable that also is somewhat effective vs subs it would be terrible to have this effect with radrar. 

Besides: The Lock-on-bug still exists. This would just make the use of radar even more useless. 

Also: You need Radar as a counter to DDs, especially if your teams DDs fail (yet again). 

 

No point to change anything. 

 

Addendum: Fix planespotting and operational-depth-spotting first both is way worse then radar. 

[Pikkozoikum]

32 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

39 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I personally would have the idea to make the spotter plane like an alternative to Radar. That spotterplanes maybe circle a bit more, immun to dmg (altitude advantage) and also use ship-detection instant of air-detection.

The spotter plane would a very well for spotting like a radar, but in a different way and ships like Zao would get more value

 

the issue here is: More spotting pressure against stealthy ships

Nope that isnt same as radar, the smoke camping needs to have a counter and spotter planes dont do that, radar as radar is fine but as you said making it available only on certain ships of certain nations makes it unbalanced, if WG thinks that this would make BBs (might be a legitimate concern even though we already have several BBs with radar) 2 powerful it can be limited to DDs and Cruisers as current radar and made a targeting radar on BBs instead letting one have say -30% dispersion or something similar for the duration of the consumable...

I wrote, that it would be the same catergory, not the exact same consumable: a tool for spotting, but different. Radar is a constant spotting tool for a short time duration in a radius. The Spotter plane would become a non-constant spotting tool for a longer time duration

 

The value of ships like Zao would increase heavily, because they could pressure now DDs

 

The spotter plane right now is not really a tool for spotting, there is very little use for spotting, when someone is behind island for example, or against submarines, But mostly a spotter plane can't spot, before the surface ship spots anyways.

[Yedwy]

Spotter planes biggest problem as actual spotting tool is that it can be shot down easily and you need to wait for 2 min to get another one...

[Panocek]

WG found out applying any kind of logic to game mechanics would "confuse the players", so I doubt it would happen

[Deckeru_Maiku]

18 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Spotter planes biggest problem as actual spotting tool is that it can be shot down easily and you need to wait for 2 min to get another one...

and that they don't work a bit like a real spotter..

Give them high altitude flight above flak, but have them get sent to a certain spot on the minimap to "spot ships" there by going in smaller circles, without giving their floating master longer range...

As it is the "spotter planes" circle so close to their ships that they have less chance to spot enemies than the ship itself..

[Migantium_Mashum]

In WW2 from about 1943 almost all surface ships had radar so in reality radar would be coming from many directions not just one.

 

Although I am a DD main, I think that they have got radar just about right... 

 

Spend half an hour learning the radar capabilities of your opponents and radar isn't a problem...

 

Example: See a Moskva on the enemy team I know that if I stay outside 12km range of her position I am fine.

[totally_potato]

4 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Hi guys.

 

What the F am I talking about? lol. 

 

Ok, I'm only recently back playing this game and my first regular involvement in Random Battles.

 

Here's my finding's as a noob in regards Radar ships and I do have a few radar cruisers myself so my suggestion is at least coming with a little experience, not much, but not blindly talking about something I don't know either. Also, it takes some experience to know both how and when to best use radar, it's certainly not just braindead about the map permanently exposing ships lol.

 

Rather than babble on, my suggestion is nothing more based on radar sweeps itself.

 

In this game, when you use radar, the target is fully exposed and remains so, just like is you spotted him with line of sight. This is not radar however and tbh, it's a little unfair, regardless of the experience needed to make the best use of radar.

 

What I am suggesting, is to still show the target, BUT, only like a radar would, intermittently in sweeps so that the target has brief moments of invisibility to at least throw some shots wide from enemy guns and give that target a little bit of a fair chance to try and maneuver aggressively so that those little blind moments where the enemy can't see you will result in a few missed shots, not just sit there in full view permanently for so long as the radar is active like we currently have.  

 

What do you guys think? It's nothing more than how radar operates or at least operated at the time.

 

This is just an example of how radar shows a target in sweeps. As you can see, it doesn't permanently show the target.

 

how would it be, if

Radar was more like detection waves. So for eg. The radar lasts 60 seconds. Every 10 seconds, a wave goes out at a very fast speed, and whatever ship, this wave passes through, is visually detected, for like 5 seconds, and perma detected on minimap till radar expires. So that's like 6 waves of visual detection, for 5 seconds each, so about 35 seconds of being visually detected for a 60 second radar. However, this will happen, if they are out in the open, behind smoke or if the front part of the ship is sticking out from behind an island. If they are behind hard cover, 75% of the ping will get absorbed by that hard cover, and will detect ships on the minimap behind the island, but not visually, in any shape or form. 

[tocqueville8]

5 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

What do you guys think? It's nothing more than how radar operates or at least operated at the time.

 

I'm not against it, but the problem is...persistence of vision? aiming permanence...? I don't know how to call it.

Basically, guns in this game are more accurate when you're locked onto the target, and if you lose the target, you still get the same accuracy for a bit, but your aim gets yanked upward a bit. You can still do blind shots, but you have to use the minimap dot trick. Furthermore, you lose your lead: the binocular view that was tracking the target (assuming it was moving) stops at once (maybe that's what causes the yank, I dunno).

 

In short, this change would interfere with the lock-on mechanism, which is crucial to get...well, citadel hits instead of a couple of superstructure overpens, let's say. It's a fine idea, but it would require some reworking of one of the basic game mechanics...and we all know what that means 

[Bindolaf_Werebane]

Am I weird in thinking that radar is fine as it is? It doesn't bother me much. I can see how it can be a problem if MM is too uneven, but other than that *shrug*

[Camperdown]

2 hours ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

In WW2 from about 1943 almost all surface ships had radar so in reality radar would be coming from many directions not just one.

 

Although I am a DD main, I think that they have got radar just about right... 

 

Spend half an hour learning the radar capabilities of your opponents and radar isn't a problem...

 

Example: See a Moskva on the enemy team I know that if I stay outside 12km range of her position I am fine.

If you always stay out of radar range, your effectiveness is severely restricted. You also need to know when you can risk being inside radar range, e.g. how many and which enemies can fire at you, How long the enemy radar lasts etc.

 

[Ronchabale]

Whole radar, air spotting and hydro system is stupid..

Like if an aircraft, radar or hydro sees a ship then how the hell is the information visually transmitted to every player on the team ?? Some star wars techno stuff going on there

 

[General_Alexus]

You know that this slow radarsweep is something for movies, in RL the frequency is way faster.

No reason to complicate a simple mechanic like radar overly.

I would be all for Radar (and hydro) not spotting through Ilands though, but maybe not possible with the current engine (as the radar implementation of just increesing ensured detectibility to 10km/12km is a little bit cheap)

[Yedwy]

9 minutes ago, General_Alexus said:

You know that this slow radarsweep is something for movies, in RL the frequency is way faster.

Frequency depends at least in this era about gen of radar and dish size or ie how fast they could spin it, this would actually be quite quick for WW2 i think

[Aethervoxx]

Your idea is good, Sir_Sinks_ALot, however, War Failing needs to remove radar ability that goes through land (& islands).

After all, we know how financially poor WG is & how swamped with 'essential' projects their programmers are.

[Itwastuesday]

Why though? Destroyers are coddled enough as it is, smoke cruisers pretty darn good as they are and cruisers in general not in a great place. If anything more cruisers need radars. 

[totally_potato]

1 hour ago, Camperdown said:

If you always stay out of radar range, your effectiveness is severely restricted. You also need to know when you can risk being inside radar range, e.g. how many and which enemies can fire at you, How long the enemy radar lasts etc.

 

tbh, the only radar I fear is Nevsky radar in a DD. For DDs I do play Elbing a ton, and I murder likes of DMs worcesters, jebait Soviet heavy cruiser radar, etc. But Moskva and Nevsky are some of the best radar ships in the game, and those two I do fear. Even tho a Moskva is rather easy to kill, Nevsky not so much

[El2aZeR]

7 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

How would having a ship shown for 2 seconds and then remain invisible for 2 seconds for the normal radar duration be complicated or hard to understand?

 

Because this is the WoWs playerbase we are talking about.