Suggested changes for Submarines

[Grim_Destiny]

Making post to avoid suggestions drowning in a thread of "concern!"

 

In short:

1. Submarine torpedos should NOT do citadel hits - ever

2. Torpedos should only start homing after TWO pings

3. First ping should highlight the pinged ship for 60 seconds regardless of smoke, LOS etc and should give team update on speed and heading (for 30 seconds).

4. Double ping - torpedos home-in on target for 8 seconds (or 6).

5. 950 meter turning circle for torpedos

 

 

 

Personally I dont mind submarines. They are squishy and quickly die in random - my non-secondary focused Midway has sunk a few already. A poorly balanced matchmaker, is the greater problem. And of course, homing citadel hitting torpedos, are simply gamebreaking. Rein this in and the subs will be in a much better place. Then please work on matchmaking. 3 subs per team, or 5 destroyers, or 2x CVs, or even 5 BBs make for very bad games. When more than one of these happen at the same time, I just want to log off because its a waste of my time.

 

 

 

[Bindolaf_Werebane]

11 minutes ago, Grim_Destiny said:

Making post to avoid suggestions drowning in a thread of "concern!"

 

In short:

1. Submarine torpedos should NOT do citadel hits - ever

2. Torpedos should only start homing after TWO pings

3. First ping should highlight the pinged ship for 60 seconds regardless of smoke, LOS etc and should give team update on speed and heading (for 30 seconds).

4. Double ping - torpedos home-in on target for 8 seconds (or 6).

5. 950 meter turning circle for torpedos

 

 

 

Personally I dont mind submarines. They are squishy and quickly die in random - my non-secondary focused Midway has sunk a few already. A poorly balanced matchmaker, is the greater problem. And of course, homing citadel hitting torpedos, are simply gamebreaking. Rein this in and the subs will be in a much better place. Then please work on matchmaking. 3 subs per team, or 5 destroyers, or 2x CVs, or even 5 BBs make for very bad games. When more than one of these happen at the same time, I just want to log off because its a waste of my time.

 

 

 

You do realize that you are describing an utterly toothless, bleak class. Why would anyone play the submarines you propose? As to matchmaking, you are right.

[Prophecy82]

16 minutes ago, Grim_Destiny said:

 

3. First ping should highlight the pinged ship for 60 seconds regardless of smoke, LOS etc and should give team update on speed and heading (for 30 seconds).

 

You mean like a sticky radar? HELL NO!

[Rockstone_III]

Reload on both pings and torps to increase.

Turning radius of homing torps to increase... or remove homing all together and make it a submersible DD.

Stop homing distance for CC's and DD's to increase a lot... and remove double ping-effect for reducing it.

Detectability of subs to increase,.. especially after pinging (longer time visible and from a greater distance).

[Cippalippus]

Simpler solution: get them out of random and ranked, put them in a dedicated mode, everybody has fun, problem solved.

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

The thing that gets me most worked up about the Submarine mechanics is the way that you can only remove being pinged by using DCP.

 

One idea is that you should have immunity from being re-pinged for "x" seconds after you remove a ping by activating DCP.

 

Something similar happens with fires, so the concept is not a new one. Also it can be used for tweaking "balans".

 

Though I suppose that WG will want to use their more traditional tools.

[Itwastuesday]

For starters, depth charges should be way more lethal to submarines. They don't care about fire and flooding since they always have dcp available and the bomb damage is pathetic across the board. They should force sub to surface, or maybe sub shouldn't have dcp, or perhaps just the bomb damage need to be 3x higher. 

 

But best would be to not include them at all. They add nothing and instead detract from the game, even moreso than carrier.

[Synth_FG]

Make them team killable without penalty 

[Gudgeon]

Yes depth charging a submarine should be lethal. In this implantation, depth charging a sub is similar to hitting an EBR with a 120mm shell..........not very much, as with EBR's you quite often just buckle the wheel.....and subs just take a bit of HP damage.....a joke when you take into account the homing torpedo's dealing citadel damage.

[fumtu]

The only thing I would change on subs is their state .... from "present" to "deleted".

[The_Angry_Admiral]

Right now subs either die quickly or they wreck other ships. There is currently no middle ground.

[Verblonde]

4 hours ago, Bindolaf_Werebane said:

You do realize that you are describing an utterly toothless, bleak class. Why would anyone play the submarines you propose?

Sounds win-win to me...

Submarines in their present form are a blight on the game (especially at high tiers).

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

9 minutes ago, The_Angry_Admiral said:

Right now subs either die quickly or they wreck other ships. There is currently no middle ground.

Which is a refreshing change from either play bad but dont die quickly or wreck everything and don't die quickly like the carriers brought us. 

[invicta2012]

4 hours ago, Grim_Destiny said:

Making post to avoid suggestions drowning in a thread of "concern!"

 

In short:

1. Submarine torpedos should NOT do citadel hits - ever

2. Torpedos should only start homing after TWO pings

3. First ping should highlight the pinged ship for 60 seconds regardless of smoke, LOS etc and should give team update on speed and heading (for 30 seconds).

4. Double ping - torpedos home-in on target for 8 seconds (or 6).

5. 950 meter turning circle for torpedos

Nah. 

 

Give subs two sorts of torpedoes. 

 

1 - Destroyer ones. They go in straight lines, they're quick. Firing 75 knot torpedoes is going to be a quite effective weapon if done from stealth 12km away, even with poor torp detection compared to DDs.

 

2 - Homing ones. These are "sea mines". They're Sims/Heavy German DD slow - 40 knots or so. They do less damage. They track, you can guarantee hits with them if the poor target doesn't have any DCP left, but they're much more about harassment then they are about Dev Strikes. The job of these things is to cause floods, waste DCP, not one shot anyone. 

 

That's "interesting gameplay" without being situationally massively OP. 

 

FWIW Subs also need a proximity detection rework as they are far too strong around caps - the combination of stealth, lack of means of detection and the existing homing torps is way OTT. 

[FooFaFie]

1 hour ago, invicta2012 said:

Nah. 

 

Give subs two sorts of torpedoes. 

 

1 - Destroyer ones. They go in straight lines, they're quick. Firing 75 knot torpedoes is going to be a quite effective weapon if done from stealth 12km away, even with poor torp detection compared to DDs.

 

2 - Homing ones. These are "sea mines". They're Sims/Heavy German DD slow - 40 knots or so. They do less damage. They track, you can guarantee hits with them if the poor target doesn't have any DCP left, but they're much more about harassment then they are about Dev Strikes. The job of these things is to cause floods, waste DCP, not one shot anyone. 

 

That's "interesting gameplay" without being situationally massively OP. 

 

FWIW Subs also need a proximity detection rework as they are far too strong around caps - the combination of stealth, lack of means of detection and the existing homing torps is way OTT. 

I had the same idea with the 2 torps. But in my version the Homing ones are deep water torps that can't hit a DD (or even light cruisers). And the homing one stops at the same distance for cruisers as for BBs.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

4 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

That's "interesting gameplay" without being situationally massively OP

The problem is, this would need players interested in subs to have at least a bit of a working brain... which is not in WGs interest, as they try their hardest to cater to the brainless...

[Herbstnebel1975]

You won't hear me complaining. Don't change them.

 True, you die quick or you are the terror of the map till the end of the battle .

 

 

[Verblonde]

There is, of course, a single lone forlorn plus point to having submarines in the game:

 

 

 

(One for the Old People in the vicinity.)

[SodaBubbles]

Just remove them from Randoms. Then their brokenness wont matter.

It's sad that we had the same exact discussions about CVs three years ago. WG sucks hard. 

[Nagine]

21 hours ago, Bindolaf_Werebane said:

You do realize that you are describing an utterly toothless, bleak class. Why would anyone play the submarines you propose? As to matchmaking, you are right.

 

Homing torps is one of the few serious flaws of the class in general. Removing that would remove half of the arguments why such subs do not belong in a WW2 game. Dumb torps can still do damage, while offering counterplay for all classes, so people who actually like to think while playing would enjoy the challenge. I am all for single fired non-homing torps with higher damage and maybe more stealth. Not every class needs to be dumbed down for easy damage farming.

[SodaBubbles]

1 minute ago, Nagine said:

 

Homing torps is one of the few serious flaws of the class in general. Removing that would remove half of the arguments why such subs do not belong in a WW2 game. Dumb torps can still do damage, while offering counterplay for all classes, so people who actually like to think while playing would enjoy the challenge. I am all for single fired non-homing torps with higher damage and maybe more stealth. Not every class needs to be dumbed down for easy damage farming.

Unfortunately WG has decided monetizing griefer mechanics is the way to go. 

 

So this who thread is pointless. Homing torps are exactly the kind of griefer mechanic the devs love. 

 

Meanwhile, you're talking about a marketing team so inept, we have two types of ships, CVs and subs, that hardly anyone wants in the game, but the whole game has been re-arranged for, while we dont even have a f*cking cart in the f*cking premium shop. 

Probably could have sold more stuff with a cart in the premium shop than the money they have made off CVs. 

 

English needs to coin a new word for behavior this stupid. 

 

 

[Nagine]

3 minutes ago, SodaBubbles said:

Unfortunately WG has decided monetizing griefer mechanics is the way to go. 

 

So this who thread is pointless. Homing torps are exactly the kind of griefer mechanic the devs love. 

 

Meanwhile, you're talking about a marketing team so inept, we have two types of ships, CVs and subs, that hardly anyone wants in the game, but the whole game has been re-arranged for, while we dont even have a f*cking cart in the f*cking premium shop. 

Probably could have sold more stuff with a cart in the premium shop than the money they have made off CVs. 

 

English needs to coin a new word for behavior this stupid. 

 

 

Good points. Sadly :( However, repeating "homing torps are broken - change that" has a higher chance to influence actual changes than spamming "subs are broken - remove them". Hopefully, homing torps will be changed after enough premium subs are bought.

[gms763]

If sub have homing torpedoes I suggest CVs get ASW helicopters that can drop acoustic homing anti-sub torpedoes.

[Ronchabale]

I suggest...

Get rid of them, game is enough of a mess already

[Shirakami_Kon]

Come on, guys. We all know the amount of money, effort, game development expertice and deep thought into balance WG has put into subs. We can't ask them to get rid of subs after such a monumental feat.

 

Therefore, what they should do is remove the rest of the classes in the game, so we can properly enjoy and have fun with the product of their efforts these years.