Submarines in Random Battles

[SlavicNoOb]

38 minutes ago, Sir_Lawrence42 said:

Great for you but honestly who cares - is every class/ship in the top 3 now OP or what? Subs or not - this game has so many child diseases that are untouched that its absurd to see how some of you behave because of a class that is by far not as strong as other ships that got released the past 3 years. Daily reminder that the forums are used by a small % compared to the part that is just "clicking ships" so some of you might not wanna behave like this forum is representing most of the WOWS playerbase. If CVs did not kill most of the playerbase so far why should subs be the next nail in the coffin? Exactly - play your overpowered ships that overperform compared to other same tier ships and behave like your not part of the problem.

 

Subs nor CVs should be part of random battles as long as any player accepts to face them in their match or not (dont think that subs are as bad as CVs for the game but would happily do without them to not see CVs ever again) - this would actually show how most players think - including the main playerbase that doesnt care about forums or similar. In the other tank/plane/ship game they back then added map filters and i remember how pretty much nearly everyone in the forums said they want big maps only and the filter would show that most players want to not play on small maps - big shocker was when nearly everyone suddenly played and selected small to medium maps - i can already tell that at this point to many players in WOWS dont care anymore about CVs, Subs or whatever WG has planned for the future.

The things is  I don't only play Submarines or CV's. I play all ship classes. So far Minsk and Shenyang are my favorite destroyers, Vladivostok favorite BB. And I had a lot of fun fun with the Ranger.. Recently got the Lazo and I like that cruiser as well. I haven't played most of the ships on the tech tree so I can only speak for the ones I have.

So as a person that likes to play all classes, I don't find CV's particularly annoying. I mean they're annoying to an extent, but that's the point of the game, all ships from the enemy team shooting at you are annoying, they're supposed to be. But I haven't found CV's to be OP when I play other ship classes, and neither do I find submarines OP right now. Do submarines need slight balancing? Maybe, only WG can tell that with the statistics they get from all this testing. But I as a player do not find them more dangerous than any other class when I play a surface ship.

The only two ships that I find kinda scary when I play a bb, are the Shimakaze and the Minotaur. The Shimakaze with its swarms of torps, and the Minotaur is stupidly annoying when spamming HE and hiding behind an island, because of its insane rate of fire. I have 113 battles with the Kremlin in Ranked so far, and I didn't find submarines to be much of a threat. Sure, if you make a stupid move, they can be. And sometimes they can just ambush you. But most of the time I have not had an issue with them. The Shima and the Minotaur on the other hand have ruined my day many times.

 

[Saulot]

Hello

I have just played a T10 game with 2 subs on each side. I could see a minotaur chased by sub torps that were following him and nothing he could do but die.

I can't understand how you see that an improvement in the game.

Subs are destroying the game.

Subs destroy the peasure many players have.

Subs will destroy your revenue, if this is the langage you can understand.

Saulot

[Cirno9999]

On 10/6/2021 at 12:05 PM, zmeul said:

the moment I see subs in random battles is the moment I quit playing WoWs for good

how often i heard that and people still played wows after that

if xxx makes in the game im gonna quit

adjust, adapt, overcome

[anonym_cwVecOS6ecVy]

1 hour ago, dN00b said:

and the Minotaur is stupidly annoying when spamming HE

[Smegger213]

3 hours ago, dN00b said:

Oh, so you're playing multiple accounts and selling them. Gotcha..

No wonder that you have so few battles as an alpha tester. Now it all makes sense.

LOL you really are trying to scrape the bottom of the barrel with your comments.

 

For your information, I created a new account to play WoT with.

I got bored with my Smegger213 account in WoT, but I did not want to be a re-roll scrub.

So I created a new account to play WoT again from scratch, SmegTheNoob.

But after doing that, I thought I may as well start playing WoWS with SmegTheNoob.

That saved me having to log into different accounts in the Wargaming Game Centre.

 

The reason Smegger213 has only 1700 plus battles, is because WoT has always been my main game of choice.

I did not play WoWS nearly as much as WoT.

 

But that still gives me the right to voice my views on here and other forums etc.

Why have you got to shout down EVERY player that disagrees with your view on subs?

Face the fact that MORE PLAYERS HATE SUBS THAN LIKE THEM.

You are in the minority, so deal with it.

[Smegger213]

Oh by the way mr dN00b.

The poll has now got 218 total votes, and the sub dislikes has now climbed to 87%.

So the dislikes is going up pal, not down.

[QueenOfKillers]

I just lost a game because I spent 5 mins chasing a sub. I was with my smalland. Radar ineffective. He just dived at max depth and I never caught him. I was also spotted while capping by this invisible crap. It was incredibly raging. NO SUBS OR I MIGHT QUIT THE GAME!!!

[Zespetjest]

5 hours ago, dN00b said:

You apparently don't read everything in the thread, or choose to ignore what doesn't suit you. Keep spamming that irrelevant poll. 42% win rate in ranked tells me everything I need to know...

I have 61% WR in ranked, so you should be quiet when I am speaking, right?

[Misago]

Can I get a pink Balao? No? Well, then the only thing subs could add to this game is lost.

 

Seriously though, as much as I like submarines in principle, the way they are implemented in this game is just stupid. They're just extremely stealthy underwater destroyers. If there actually was some skill to this, like having to stay slow to stay quiet and undetected, and surface ships able to use ASDIC (rather than burdening the hydro cooldown), and of course without the stupid homing torpedoes, they might be fun. As it stands, they seem like that in any given game, they'd be either completely pointless or frustrating, depending on what you are driving and how good the submarine player is. Just don't see this creating any meaningful new interactions.

 

Worst of all, they're not even a good counter to carriers, which would have been a great opportunity. As it stands, its another way to annoy the poor BB players again.

[Hanse77SWE]

Played a game in my Napoli yesterday.

 

Got double-pinged and had six torps coming at me. Used DCP but ate some torps none the less. Before my DCP was back up and runing again I was double-pinged (again) and had six new torps coming at me (again). Nothing I could do. Fun? Hell no!!!

 

I haven't played a single game in subs because I decided to first of all test how it affected the "old" game. If the "old" games still was fun, then I would test the subs. Guess what? It wasn't so I didn't.

[Prophecy82]

5 hours ago, Sir_Lawrence42 said:

Oh no in a t6 match - dont make yourself look like a clown - you can do the same with any class and ship with +2 MM. I did yesterday 10k dmg in a t10 sub with full t10 MM and got 3rd just by capping 3 times - its nothing special what you posted since it has zero weight to it since it applies to every other game that has similar factors to it. 

 

Your statement makes actually no sense, since its harder to get the same BXP if you are toptier fighting lower tiers then vice versa (that is: you have to do more for it). 

 

Sure I can do the same with any class. I can do that in a few ships even easier if Im bottom tier. But thats not the point: The point is you asked for a carry in a sub and you asked for a sub in the Top 3. There you go. I provided that. 

No stop derailing. 

[GermanBoomercaustEnjoyer]

33 minutes ago, Prophecy82 said:

 

Your statement makes actually no sense, since its harder to get the same BXP if you are toptier fighting lower tiers then vice versa (that is: you have to do more for it). 

 

Sure I can do the same with any class. I can do that in a few ships even easier if Im bottom tier. But thats not the point: The point is you asked for a carry in a sub and you asked for a sub in the Top 3. There you go. I provided that. 

No stop derailing. 

You might wanna start rereading everything i wrote then cause seems like you are derailing in this thread alone already non stop *honk honk* )))) 

The excuse of beeing top tier made me cringe slightly tho - ngl - btw with nearly 2k CV games beeing so against subs is a bit ironic dont you think? My bad you arent part of the problem that subs are part now of the game cause oh shocker you should been one of the guys with nearly no CV games then right when we talk about balancing )))).

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

18 hours ago, dN00b said:

Well I came back after a year of hibernation.. and as long as submarines stay in random, I intend to play every single day (they need to be added to the tech tree tho). And I intend to buy premium submarines. So they lost you, but they gained me.

EDIT. If submarines were as unpopular as you all claim, this forum thread would have had 80, or 800 pages by now, given how many warships players there are in Europe alone. Instead it has meager 8, with half of the posts being mine, and the other half from people that are against submarines and can be counted on one hand (two hands tops).

Using your own spam as leverage is pretty speshul ^^ You might want to spread your wings to other parts of the forum instead of locking yourself in this hijacked private fapping topic.

 

I haven't read one single useful piece of advise from you anywhere about playing or countering subs. Not a single piece of insight on how it makes the game more interesting, other then drivel about how you like them and they're gonna stay so nanana. Maybe you have nothing worthwhile to offer, I don't know. Your performance doesn't seem to indicate much worth sharing. All I see here is pages filled with schadenfreude. Class act, really.

[SlavicNoOb]

5 hours ago, Smegger213 said:

LOL you really are trying to scrape the bottom of the barrel with your comments.

 

For your information, I created a new account to play WoT with.

I got bored with my Smegger213 account in WoT, but I did not want to be a re-roll scrub.

So I created a new account to play WoT again from scratch, SmegTheNoob.

But after doing that, I thought I may as well start playing WoWS with SmegTheNoob.

That saved me having to log into different accounts in the Wargaming Game Centre.

 

The reason Smegger213 has only 1700 plus battles, is because WoT has always been my main game of choice.

I did not play WoWS nearly as much as WoT.

 

But that still gives me the right to voice my views on here and other forums etc.

Why have you got to shout down EVERY player that disagrees with your view on subs?

Face the fact that MORE PLAYERS HATE SUBS THAN LIKE THEM.

You are in the minority, so deal with it.

Got bored with your account...ok, that makes A LOT of sense.

And I'm not scraping anything. Having multiple accounts and so few battles on your "alpha tester" one is highly suspicious. Innocent until proven guilty of course, but it is suspicious.

5 hours ago, Smegger213 said:

Oh by the way mr dN00b.

The poll has now got 218 total votes, and the sub dislikes has now climbed to 87%.

So the dislikes is going up pal, not down.

I'm not your pal...

[SlavicNoOb]

31 minutes ago, Europizza said:

Using your own spam as leverage is pretty speshul ^^ You might want to spread your wings to other parts of the forum instead of locking yourself in this hijacked private fapping topic.

 

I haven't read one single useful piece of advise from you anywhere about playing or countering subs. Not a single piece of insight on how it makes the game more interesting, other then drivel about how you like them and they're gonna stay so nanana. Maybe you have nothing worthwhile to offer, I don't know. Your performance doesn't seem to indicate much worth sharing. All I see here is pages filled with schadenfreude. Class act, really.

Yes yes, you are full of useful advice and rational explanations of why submarines "suck".

 

My performance has already been explained. But let me paint a clearer picture for you. I live in a country where a store clerk earns 200 euro per month, whereas in western Europe it is several times that, in some countries even an order of magnitude higher. I'm not a store clerk, I'm just giving that example to establish a baseline.

So unlike most of you, I haven't spent much on premium ships, premium account, flags, etc. Not that I don't want to, but I spend what I can afford to spend on a game. That means I play with un-upgraded ships longer, way longer, and it also takes longer to train my captains. I do not use flags that boost ship performance in random battles. All of that may not entirely explain my more or less average stats, but it is a big portion of it.

Try grinding for months or a year without a premium account and see how it goes.

So check your privilege ;)

[SlavicNoOb]

So here's what my impression is after trying to figure out what's behind this anti-CV and anti-submarine rebellion. Portion of the player base is against the game gaining complexity. And with every new class that is radically different in its mechanics, the way it needs to be countered, etc., the game is gaining complexity.

You cannot even explain the root-reason why you are against something. Someone else has to figure it out.

[ColonelPete]

56 minutes ago, dN00b said:

You cannot even explain the root-reason why you are against something. Someone else has to figure it out.

It is all over the forum.

• Subs are boring and less dynamic (there is a reason the US BB split is unpopular)
• Subs are boring to play against
• players camp more with Subs in the match, leading to less dynamic gameplay --> boring
• when a match is decided early, but one enemy Sub is left, it takes longer to find it --> waste of time
• Subs generate a similar frustration level as CV, as fighting them is only possible AFTER you beat the enemy team or their players really mess up

[SlavicNoOb]

12 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

It is all over the forum.

• Subs are boring and less dynamic (there is a reason the US BB split is unpopular)
• Subs are boring to play against
• players camp more with Subs in the match, leading to less dynamic gameplay --> boring
• when a match is decided early, but one enemy Sub is left, it takes longer to find it --> waste of time
• Subs generate a similar frustration level as CV, as fighting them is only possible AFTER you beat the enemy team or their players really mess up

Submarines are not boring for me, and other players who have been waiting for them.
I don't find submarines boring or challenging to play against.
When one team camps because it is afraid of the submarine/s, and the other one plays aggressively, the aggressive team wins 95% of the time. And submarines encounter each other early in the game quite often, and they often die during that encounter.
It's supposed to be hard to find, it relies on stealth because it has low HP and armor. Very low. And it's not as hard as you you might think, the pings give up its location. Again, it all depends on the skill of the players, and if they work as a team or not. For instance, I often tell my team at the start of a match to point sub location on the map when they get pinged, which makes things MUCH EASIER during that match.
Since you mentioned CVs, they are the best tool to counter submarines, as they spot them which depletes their dive capacity rapidly. Smart CV players drop a fighter plane over the last known sub location. Extremely effective and extremely annoying for the sub player. Bad CV players don't even try to spot the sub in any way. I love those bad CV players when I play a sub...

As I said, it all boils down to part of the player base not liking the increase in game complexity. Bad players have a hard time adapting. Good players that used to have 60% win rates in the past, cannot sustain that in a more complex game. Simple as that. You want the game to remain on easy mode for one reason or another, and you don't have the guts to admit it.

[ColonelPete]

5 minutes ago, dN00b said:

Submarines are not boring for me, and other players who have been waiting for them.
I don't find submarines boring or challenging to play against.
When one team camps because it is afraid of the submarine/s, and the other one plays aggressively, the aggressive team wins 95% of the time. And submarines encounter each other early in the game quite often, and they often die during that encounter.
It's supposed to be hard to find, it relies on stealth because it has low HP and armor. Very low. And it's not as hard as you you might think, the pings give up its location. Again, it all depends on the skill of the players, and if they work as a team or not. For instance, I often tell my team at the start of a match to point sub location on the map when they get pinged, which makes things MUCH EASIER during that match.
Since you mentioned CVs, they are the best tool to counter submarines, as they spot them which depletes their dive capacity rapidly.

As I said, it all boils down to part of the player base not liking the increase in game complexity. Bad players have a hard time adapting. Good players that used to have 60% win rates in the past, cannot sustain that in a more complex game. Simple as that. You want the game to remain on easy mode for one reason or another, and you don't have the guts to admit it.

It does not matter what you think. It matters what the majority thinks, unless you plan to buy WG...

And it is not a matter of being challenging, as explained.

 

[SlavicNoOb]

6 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

It does not matter what you think. It matters what the majority thinks, unless you plan to buy WG...

And it is not a matter of being challenging, as explained.

 

Wargaming has spent years developing the submarines, and they don't care what you think, or what polls show, especially early polls like the ones we have now, they care what the player base does. Are sufficient numbers of players playing the submarines or not? That gives them an indication of future premium submarines sales and people upgrading to premium account because they have extra stuff to grind.

And from what I have seen so far people are playing submarines... I often send a provocative message at the start of battle, like "I love submarines", "submarines are great", etc. I never got a response in randoms. People just don't care. There was this one guy that suicided in ranked after ranting about submarines and how he dislikes them, but other than that I haven't seen much negative comments in-game.

So calm down, it's all going in the right direction... ;)

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

1 hour ago, dN00b said:

Yes yes, you are full of useful advice and rational explanations of why submarines "suck".

 

Blabla

So check your privilege ;)

Yup, and you probably should get with the program. I couldn't care less for excuses why you wouldn't have anyting of substance to offer to the discussion while being such a avid fan of subs. Or why a lack of money would make your performance be below average all over the board. I've played tier 5 6 7 and 8 for 2 years like a maniac before I made move to rank 10. Played F2P for those first 2 years mostly. At least you did decent with BB's in ranked from what I can see, so I'm guessing you are learning something. Show us how you counter. Show us what you do best in subs. Show mistakes too.

 

I played my first 3 sub battles in random tonight to see what the fuss is all about. I like subs, but pvp is not ready for them. I'll post some of my thoughts on changes later on, just for kicks.

[SlavicNoOb]

1 minute ago, Europizza said:

Yup, and you probably should get with the program. I couldn't care less for excuses why you wouldn't have anyting of substance to offer to the discussion while being such a avid fan of subs. Or why a lack of money would make your performance be below average all over the board. I've played tier 5 6 7 and 8 for 2 years like a maniac before I made move to rank 10. Played F2P for those first 2 years mostly. At least you did decent with BB's in ranked from what I can see, so I'm guessing you are learning something. Show us what you do right to counter. Show us what you do right in subs. Show mistakes.

 

I played my first 3 sub battles in random tonight to see what the fuss is all about. I like subs, but pvp is not ready for them. I'll post some of my thoughts later on, just for kicks.

How you played and what you played is your problem. Aside from "lack of money" maybe I had lack of time too to play tens of thousands of battles. You didn't think of that one, did you?

And I value your opinion as much as you value mine.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

46 minutes ago, dN00b said:

How you played and what you played is your problem. Aside from "lack of money" maybe I had lack of time too to play tens of thousands of battles. You didn't think of that one, did you?

And I value your opinion as much as you value mine.

Really. You played a lot of WOT, wtf do I care. You sit here in this little corner weilding a big mouth over a game you barely looked at for 4 years, took a break from for a over a year, and just now started playing again. You are probably learning as we speak. All this thread highlights is that your opinion lacks substance. It's as much of a BS attitude as the people you seem to detest.

1 hour ago, dN00b said:

As I said, it all boils down to part of the player base not liking the increase in game complexity. Bad players have a hard time adapting. Good players that used to have 60% win rates in the past, cannot sustain that in a more complex game. Simple as that. You want the game to remain on easy mode for one reason or another, and you don't have the guts to admit it.

This is too funny really. It's the same BS BeastofWar has been trying to push in the past. Most unicums thrive on complexity, that is how they become unicums. Most are smart, agile and well experienced gamers. It's common for untalented or inexperienced players that struggle in all classes to think unicums are some weird idiot savants, and that adding something new will throw them off. It actually won't. If anything they will adapt faster.

[SlavicNoOb]

12 minutes ago, Europizza said:

Really. You played a lot of WOT, wtf do I care. You sit here in this little corner weilding a big mouth over a game you barely looked at for 4 years, took a break from for a over a year, and just now started playing again. You are probably learning as we speak. All this thread highlights is that your opinion lacks substance. It's as much of a BS attitude as the people you seem to detest.

This is too funny really. It's the same BS BeastofWar has been trying to push for over a year in the past. Most unicums thrive on complexity, that is how they become unicums. Most are smart, agile and well experienced gamers. It's common for untalented or inexperienced players that struggle in all classes to think unicums are some weird idiot savants, and that adding something new will throw them off. It actually won't. If anything they will adapt lightning fast.

Yes yes, your opinion is valuable because you spent money, or you spent time... right? So where is Wargaming's valuing for loyalty? That's what those like you keep asking.

I don't think anyone of you signed a contract saying that playing a lot, or spending a lot, or being alpha/beta tester, or being a unicum, gives you the right to dictate the development of the game. Get over yourself.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

10 minutes ago, dN00b said:

Yes yes, your opinion is valuable because you spent money, or you sent time... right? So where is Wargaming's value for loyalty? That's what those like you keep asking.

I don't think anyone of you signed a contract saying that playing a lot, or spending a lot, or being alpha/beta tester, or being a unicum, gives you the right to dictated the development of the game. Get over yourself.

^^ This is way funnier then the weird 'jokes' about name changes or wanting to be a forum mod. Anyway, it's a bit like this: I bring arguments to compliment my whine, you bring tears to salt your excuses.