Submarines in Random Battles

[Smegger213]

11 minutes ago, dN00b said:

The exact wording is VERY important. And if only the ones hating submarines vote, the result cannot be valid.

And lets say it is valid. 95% or more of the player base doesn't enjoy submarines. That would mean that you would see them in random once in a blue moon. They would be more rare than unicorns. So what is all the fuss about?

From what I have seen so far tho, people are playing them. And that right there is your true indicator of how many like them and how many do not. Of course, maybe people are just trying them out at the moment because they are a novelty, and the their actual appearance in random will go down, but that remains to be seen.

I have no interest in playing them, never have, never will.

My view is the same with CV's, I will never play them.

 

The question in the poll and the survey says "do you enjoy subs in random battles".

Now there are 2 different things to consider.

1. Do players enjoy playing subs. Well they haven't asked that question. But my answer would be a resounding NO, based on playing them during the tests.

2. Do players enjoy playing against subs. Well, they haven't asked that question either. But my answer would be, definitely NO.

 

 

 

That's not to say, I didn't try out both CV's and Subs, when they were testing them.

I can just about tolerate, playing against CV's.

But I found it just intolerable to play against subs, esp in a BB.

I tried playing ranked during the last sprint (with my other account), but I hated it.

So it remains to be seen, how they end up.

Personally, if subs are still in random battles by the end of the year. I will not be coming back to the game.

[ColonelPete]

6 minutes ago, dN00b said:

The exact wording is VERY important. And if only the ones hating submarines vote, the result cannot be valid.

And lets say it is valid. 95% or more of the player base doesn't enjoy submarines. That would mean that you would see them in random once in a blue moon. They would be more rare than unicorns.

They are not....

You are ignoring that there are 12 players in a team. 5% of 12 is 0.6. That would be every second match or more often, when the Sub players are more active.

 

And from the poll it is obvious that even people liking submarines are voting.

 

And people playing Subs does not mean they like them. We are in a testing stage. People test the boats.

[CorsiTM]

good job WG, guided torpedos... great!

how long have you been working on the submarines and that's what came out? Congratulations, I'm out of the game.

[SlavicNoOb]

18 minutes ago, Smegger213 said:

I have no interest in playing them, never have, never will.

My view is the same with CV's, I will never play them.

 

That's not to say, I didn't try out both CV's and Subs, when they were testing them.

I can just about tolerate, playing against CV's.

But I found it just intolerable to play against subs, esp in a BB.

I tried playing ranked during the last sprint (with my other account), but I hated it.

So it remains to be seen, how they end up.

Personally, if subs are still in random battles by the end of the year. I will not be coming back to the game.

Looks like some of you just cannot adjust to CV or Submarines. You want the game to remain in its more simple initial form.

I just had a battle in ranked where I fired like 50-60 torps at a battleship, I basically focused him the entire match, and I only landed 6 torps on him. With smart use of the DCP and maneuvering he avoided 90% of my torps, and with the use of ASW he actually managed to take my health bar to below 50%, although he never detected me, just based on knowing my direction based on the pings. I survived, and so did he.

I have to admit those players are rare tho. Just like when I play a battleship and at the beginning of the battle I manage to land broadside hits and citadels on other battleships and cruisers, and it happens almost every game, in ranked mind you in gold league. In the same way I have seen that at least 50% of players do not know how to avoid submarine torpedoes. Some of them do not even use the DCP when they're pinged midship and from the side (which means they will receive citadel hits if they're pinged twice).

You know how they say, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[Bad_Seed]

tried again, even tried with submarine......it feels like something 10 year old would play and enjoy it, i sure hope subs will get more  kids to the game as it seems that is WG orientation these days. But for sure subs will emerge some below average players to play more now, we have perfect example in this thread....

[ColonelPete]

23 minutes ago, dN00b said:

You know how they say, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

There is no heat in kitchen. It just stinks. But it looks like you do not mind to eat there anyway...

[Smegger213]

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

There is no heat in kitchen. It just stinks. But it looks like you do not mind to eat there anyway...

But he only eats 47% of the time lol

[Franky76]

3 hours ago, dN00b said:

Looks like some of you just cannot adjust to CV or Submarines. You want the game to remain in its more simple initial form.

I just had a battle in ranked where I fired like 50-60 torps at a battleship, I basically focused him the entire match, and I only landed 6 torps on him. With smart use of the DCP and maneuvering he avoided 90% of my torps, and with the use of ASW he actually managed to take my health bar to below 50%, although he never detected me, just based on knowing my direction based on the pings. I survived, and so did he.

I have to admit those players are rare tho. Just like when I play a battleship and at the beginning of the battle I manage to land broadside hits and citadels on other battleships and cruisers, and it happens almost every game, in ranked mind you in gold league. In the same way I have seen that at least 50% of players do not know how to avoid submarine torpedoes. Some of them do not even use the DCP when they're pinged midship and from the side (which means they will receive citadel hits if they're pinged twice).

You know how they say, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

LoL... You sound like players have only you to fight. Guess what, if that guy lost his time avoiding your torps and chasing, he was not of a great help for his team, just like you weren't for yours in that scenario. You two just did your own little battle. On a teambase game like you keep mentionning.  In your little story, tell me at what point the BB did have a chance to kill you ? No point. And when you're talking about DCP, you sound like it is always up to the player and ready to use... and it's not. In many many cases.

If you don't understand how it is a major flaw in the gameplay when a sub uses a ramming tactic against a DD which is supposed to be the perfect counter to subs... i'm not sure i can help you. 

It is not about adaptability, if a class cannot be countered effectively.

The spotting mechanic, the torps speed, the ramming tactic, all of these have a major impact on a battle. It is not because only 5% of players only want to play it that it is not negative and has no consequences on the gameplay. Even if you personnally like the experience.

[Zemeritt]

11 hours ago, dN00b said:

Try playing a sub and see how it feels when a dd locates you and gets on top of you...

 

From what I've seen these days:

 

Surface just before the DD makes his pass to ram him -> You'll die, but the DD will also take massive damage/sink if damaged beforehand.

 

Thats the way 70% of the Subs I saw these days did it. Few actually died due to DD depth charges

[SlavicNoOb]

2 hours ago, Franky76 said:

LoL... You sound like players have only you to fight. Guess what, if that guy lost his time avoiding your torps and chasing, he was not of a great help for his team, just like you weren't for yours in that scenario. You two just did your own little battle. On a teambase game like you keep mentionning.  In your little story, tell me at what point the BB did have a chance to kill you ? No point. And when you're talking about DCP, you sound like it is always up to the player and ready to use... and it's not. In many many cases.

If you don't understand how it is a major flaw in the gameplay when a sub uses a ramming tactic against a DD which is supposed to be the perfect counter to subs... i'm not sure i can help you. 

It is not about adaptability, if a class cannot be countered effectively.

The spotting mechanic, the torps speed, the ramming tactic, all of these have a major impact on a battle. It is not because only 5% of players only want to play it that it is not negative and has no consequences on the gameplay. Even if you personnally like the experience.

In that scenario had he someone to help him, like the destroyer that went in another direction to cap, they would have sunk my sub fast. But they didn't team play, so I was able to shadow him. I bet he was frustrated, but so was I not being able to hit him. It's a battleship, so he probably was able to fire and hit targets from a distance.

It is not a common scenario, just gave that example to illustrate that battleships can effectively avoid submarine torps, and even fight back. When supported by team members it doesn't last long because the submarine soon is either killed, or it has to deal with said team members (fight them or run/hide from them).

And I see submarines as balanced because I do not deal abnormally higher damage consistently for the tier I am playing. I can be countered by DD, and now other ships that can us ASW. Team communicating and showing on map where the submarine is is also very effective. And CV is a total nightmare for a submarine since a smart CV player keeps it spotted constantly on his way to attack surface ships. That eats up its dive capacity rapidly, and when a sub is out of dive capacity its ability to fight and survive shrinks dramatically.

Submarine to submarine warfare is a lot more effective now too since they made the torps lanchable individually instead two at a time. When they were launched two at a time as a submarine you could position yourself so that they pass beside you, each on one side of the submarine. This was possible because the submarine is narrow enough. But now this is no longer possible, so submarine to submarine encounters are much more deadly. Before the patch I would just pass an enemy sub and keep going in the opposite direction, the casualty being dive capacity eaten on both sides. Now I often get sunk when I encounter a submarine.

All of this taken into account makes submarines balanced in my mind. They cannot magically sink the entire team or deal a lot more damage (on average), and they are no invulnerable. They can be annoying if they single you out, but so can be a cruiser singling out a DD, or a dd torping a BB while shadowing and remaining hidden. And a BB is annoying to a cruiser because the cruise can be eaten alive by the BB on short notice. CV can be annoying but it is vulnerable too, and has to worry about enemy AA fire.

So I do not see how submarines differ from these other ships classes in a way that makes them OP or annoying. It seems to me that you are against adding a new class regardless if it is balanced or not. I haven't heard a single rational explanation so far as to why they should not be. All I hear is anecdotal examples of what happened in this battle or that one, which can be you being bad at dealing with that submarine encounter.. or I hear "I don't like submarines" with no explanation why. Or I hear but they're not balanced, with no detailed and reasonable explanation why you think they're not balanced.

[SlavicNoOb]

Not bad for a class that no one wants to play...

And btw, I forgot to mention in the previous post, life for subs is twice as hard in random than in ranked, since there are so many surface ships that can spot/hurt you.

[NavyBabe]

I do, I quit playing after 5 years. The Subs are no fun in Random. Nice work WG. It cost you more players

 

[SlavicNoOb]

1 hour ago, NavyBabe said:

I do, I quit playing after 5 years. The Subs are no fun in Random. Nice work WG. It cost you more players

 

Well I came back after a year of hibernation.. and as long as submarines stay in random, I intend to play every single day (they need to be added to the tech tree tho). And I intend to buy premium submarines. So they lost you, but they gained me.

EDIT. If submarines were as unpopular as you all claim, this forum thread would have had 80, or 800 pages by now, given how many warships players there are in Europe alone. Instead it has meager 8, with half of the posts being mine, and the other half from people that are against submarines and can be counted on one hand (two hands tops).

[tsounts]

On 10/8/2021 at 11:33 PM, Sir_Lawrence42 said:

Since subs got added to ranked and now randos i didnt have a single game where a sub got into the top 3 nor carried/had any impact in general in any of these matches. CVs spotting and dmg are still complete busted, +2/-2 MM is still WOWS biggest issue and most of you complain about a class that has as much impact as the DD that dies in the first 2min or the BB that suicide rushes at match start into the cap - are you guys even playing the same game as i do?

Well, there you go and please note my experience in submarines is minimal.  This has been my first match in a tier 8 submarine in randoms.

I also stand to my initial opinion that this particular gameplay is boring.

 

 

[Prophecy82]

On 10/8/2021 at 10:33 PM, Sir_Lawrence42 said:

Since subs got added to ranked and now randos i didnt have a single game where a sub got into the top 3 nor carried/had any impact in general in any of these matches. CVs spotting and dmg are still complete busted, +2/-2 MM is still WOWS biggest issue and most of you complain about a class that has as much impact as the DD that dies in the first 2min or the BB that suicide rushes at match start into the cap - are you guys even playing the same game as i do?

Was my first  U-190 Random match btw. 

Is +1100 BXP to the second place carry enough?

[SlavicNoOb]

On 10/8/2021 at 10:33 PM, Sir_Lawrence42 said:

Since subs got added to ranked and now randos i didnt have a single game where a sub got into the top 3 nor carried/had any impact in general in any of these matches. CVs spotting and dmg are still complete busted, +2/-2 MM is still WOWS biggest issue and most of you complain about a class that has as much impact as the DD that dies in the first 2min or the BB that suicide rushes at match start into the cap - are you guys even playing the same game as i do?

As you can see, submarines can totally carry a battle, just like any other ship. Are there battles when you end up on bottom or middle? Absolutely, but you can be on top too. It all depends on your team, yourself, and some luck, just like with any other ship class.


 

[Smegger213]

14 minutes ago, dN00b said:

You apparently don't read everything in the thread, or choose to ignore what doesn't suit you. Keep spamming that irrelevant poll. 42% win rate in ranked tells me everything I need to know...

Really?

42% win rate in ranked eh. Well seeing as I have only played 57 games in ranked, the % rate is irrelevant.

It is irrelevant in this discussion anyway. Any players win rate does not matter one jot when subs are concerned.

But if you want to bring win rate to the discussion. How about your below average 47.68% in randoms and 47.43% in ranked.

 

What does my 42% rate in ranked tell you?

Does it tell you that my arguments about subs are irrelevant? No it doesn't.

All you are doing is trying to stat shame, so go do one pal.

You haven't exactly got epic stats yourself.

But if you want to look at stats, these are from the account I was playing with for the last few months https://wows-numbers.com/player/569839152,SmegTheNoob/?

Granted, its only 44% in ranked, but only 77 games in ranked.

Only 297 games in randoms, but 59.26% tells me all I need to know.

[SlavicNoOb]

21 minutes ago, Smegger213 said:

Really?

42% win rate in ranked eh. Well seeing as I have only played 57 games in ranked, the % rate is irrelevant.

It is irrelevant in this discussion anyway. Any players win rate does not matter one jot when subs are concerned.

But if you want to bring win rate to the discussion. How about your below average 47.68% in randoms and 47.43% in ranked.

 

What does my 42% rate in ranked tell you?

Does it tell you that my arguments about subs are irrelevant? No it doesn't.

All you are doing is trying to stat shame, so go do one pal.

You haven't exactly got epic stats yourself.

But if you want to look at stats, these are from the account I was playing with for the last few months https://wows-numbers.com/player/569839152,SmegTheNoob/?

Granted, its only 44% in ranked, but only 77 games in ranked.

Only 297 games in randoms, but 59.26% tells me all I need to know.

Oh, so you're playing multiple accounts and selling them. Gotcha..

No wonder that you have so few battles as an alpha tester. Now it all makes sense.

[Miscommunication]

I've played 1 random battle since the end of August and now (after seeing this announcement), I have no desire to ever join a random battle again.

 

I think I might just uninstall the game at this point. Bit of a shame, but I can no longer be bothered with these nonsensical updates and additions.

[GermanBoomercaustEnjoyer]

3 hours ago, Prophecy82 said:

Was my first  U-190 Random match btw. 

Is +1100 BXP to the second place carry enough?

Oh no in a t6 match - dont make yourself look like a clown - you can do the same with any class and ship with +2 MM. I did yesterday 10k dmg in a t10 sub with full t10 MM and got 3rd just by capping 3 times - its nothing special what you posted since it has zero weight to it since it applies to every other game that has similar factors to it. 

 

Its ironic how subs are the new "boogeymans" - ignore the fact that subs can be spotted by CVs when nearly fully submerged and the entire spotting/damage of CVs beeing after so many years pretty much untouched - but hey subs are the big game changer now in WOWS. If the outrage that is currently happening would light up again the entire CV discussion in random battles then i would actually take some of you seriously but honestly nearly everyone of you is a complete hypocrite at this point.

 

[SlavicNoOb]

4 minutes ago, Sir_Lawrence42 said:

Oh no in a t6 match - dont make yourself look like a clown - you can do the same with any class and ship with +2 MM. I did yesterday 10k dmg in a t10 sub with full t10 MM and got 3rd just by capping 3 times - its nothing special what you posted since it has zero weight to it since it applies to every other game that has similar factors to it.

#CVs

You're just begging for a screenshot of a t10 match. I actually posted one but that's from ranked. I'll get you one from random, no worries. I actually had such a battle where I was on top and carried the team, with a t8 sub in a t10 match mind you in random, but I didn't take a screenshot of that one.

[Pikkozoikum]

4 minutes ago, dN00b said:

You're just begging for a screenshot of a t10 match. I actually posted one but that's from ranked. I'll get you one from random, no worries. I actually had such a battle where I was on top and carried the team, with a t8 sub in a t10 match mind you in random, but I didn't take a screenshot of that one.

Though he is right, you can have great games in the worst ship and bad games in the best ship :3

[GermanBoomercaustEnjoyer]

20 minutes ago, dN00b said:

You're just begging for a screenshot of a t10 match. I actually posted one but that's from ranked. I'll get you one from random, no worries. I actually had such a battle where I was on top and carried the team, with a t8 sub in a t10 match mind you in random, but I didn't take a screenshot of that one.

Great for you but honestly who cares - is every class/ship in the top 3 now OP or what? Subs or not - this game has so many child diseases that are untouched that its absurd to see how some of you behave because of a class that is by far not as strong as other ships that got released the past 3 years. Daily reminder that the forums are used by a small % compared to the part that is just "clicking ships" so some of you might not wanna behave like this forum is representing most of the WOWS playerbase. If CVs did not kill most of the playerbase so far why should subs be the next nail in the coffin? Exactly - play your overpowered ships that overperform compared to other same tier ships and behave like your not part of the problem.

 

Subs nor CVs should be part of random battles as long as any player accepts to face them in their match or not (dont think that subs are as bad as CVs for the game but would happily do without them to not see CVs ever again) - this would actually show how most players think - including the main playerbase that doesnt care about forums or similar. In the other tank/plane/ship game they back then added map filters and i remember how pretty much nearly everyone in the forums said they want big maps only and the filter would show that most players want to not play on small maps - big shocker was when nearly everyone suddenly played and selected small to medium maps - i can already tell that at this point to many players in WOWS dont care anymore about CVs, Subs or whatever WG has planned for the future.

[SlavicNoOb]

37 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Though he is right, you can have great games in the worst ship and bad games in the best ship :3

When you see win rates like 40-45% on the low side and 55-60% on the high side, it's 90% the player and 10% the ship.

You all claim how WG ruined the game by doing this or that. You know what ruins the game for me, and this goes for tanks too? This single thing made me put the game on hiatus more than once, both tanks and warships. It is bad players, especially when they're on my team. And I'm not talking about average players say with win rate between 47.5-52.5 (lets say that's average), but bad players with win rates between 40-45%.

Those players are borderline bots. Sometimes I wonder if they're actually bots used for grinding accounts. And nothing can get me to be so annoyed to actually stop playing for a period of time like those players or bots that make you lose a battle, or series of battles when you and your own team tried so hard and you know you would have won if it wasn't for that one player or bot. It is either hanging out at the edge of the map, or hiding behind islands and not supporting while you're dying. You check the stats after the battle and sure enough it's a 43% win ratio account.

I do not understand how everyone is not up in arms about THAT, but you are bothered about what I consider minor things like HE, submarines, CV's etc.

And WG can fix this issue very easily. All they have to do is add a special battle mode where you get to participate with any given ship on which during the last 100 battles in the past three months (with that ship) you have a win rate over 50% in random.

[Pikkozoikum]

2 minutes ago, dN00b said:

When you see win rates like 40-45% on the low side and 55-60% on the high side, it's 90% the player and 10% the ship.

Though you would need 20-30 of these matches at atleast, otehrwise you never know, if it was the ship or player. Could be also the case, that the 40% WR player luckily torped a 60% wr player  and shifted the balance ^^

 

3 minutes ago, dN00b said:

ou all claim how WG ruined the game by doing this or that.

Me not ;P