What to do with beginners and bad players

[Grolaris]

Hello folks,

 

For some time now I've been enjoying the forum here - and one thing strikes me in particular: Beginners and newcomers have a particularly difficult time in Wows. Not because of the game, but because the community makes it so difficult for them. Yes, we make it difficult for newcomers. Hardly a week goes by without someone opening a thread on how to keep new players out of all modes. In the game itself they are insulted and reported wherever possible. Sometimes the insults continue after the game in port chat. 

 

Why is that?

 

I think the stats and the way you move up ranked lead to this. Everyone has to win, otherwise the statistics are red (deadly sin, nobody takes you seriously) or you take a step back in the ladder. That's annoying. Maybe you used expensive flags, they are gone too. The argument that this is part of the game does not apply here. There is frustration, someone is looking for a scapegoat - and it starts loudly.

 

Why is it played badly so often?

 

The game itself is complicated. The trailer "Duel" actually shows quite nicely which values you have to consider in order to play well. As a BB angle. Where you aim, which ammunition you use when, how you drive and how fast, what distance to the enemy makes sense - you basically have to learn and know that before you can get better. And not only with your ship, but also with the enemy. Which DD is it? Hat it smoke? How far does its torpedoes go, and the like. Even more so as a DD player, as I need to know immediately what the radar range is and how the ship is armed in order to be able to play well. There are around 500 ships in the game - it takes time to get the hang of it.

 

The only way to learn this is to play the game. Nobody sits down and crumbles several weeks of ship data before they start. That has to come gradually. I think that a lot of people (especially those who are constantly thinking of new things about how to keep beginners out of all areas of play) no longer have this on their radar because they are there from the beginning. How many ships and mechanics were there in the beginning? 30 ships and one mechanic? It's much easier to take it with you one by one than having to learn everything at once. The game itself does not provide any help.

 

Why do players often have lousy stats?

 

The system with the win / lose ratio is not bad, but it benefits players who are there from the start. This gives a nice picture over time. But a beginner will lose in the beginning. Often. All the time. And what he loses, he has to win again in return in order to somehow get out of the red zone. This takes a while. Often you can't just start over because you've already bought some (expensive) ships - you have to play your way in the green zone over the years. You can do that, but until then you are not really taken seriously as a player and you have to take some verbal beating.

 

Why do the bad players of all people play on my team?

 

WG relies on matchmaking, which throws players of all skill levels together. An inexperienced player would therefore not want to play against cracks with you, he would certainly prefer a match with opponents of equal strength, perhaps even weaker ones to practice. But that is not possible in terms of the game. Especially when he doesn't know his way around well, his ship is "undertiered" and desperately trying to make the most of the game, he needs the help of the cracks - and not insults.

 

Why do I write this?

 

I love this game. In principle, it is the only one of its kind and if you have been around for a while and begin to understand the game properly, it begins to really unfold its depth. But games live from a constant stream of new players. We have to be open to "noobs" who are just starting out and slowly finding their way into the game. We must give everyone time to learn and understand these mechanics. The more players play it, the more new it is, the more new there is, the longer it runs. Games that want to limit themselves to a hardcore basis and have only listened to their wishes disappear quickly (best example: Wildstar).

 

Therefore: Stop reporting bad players, rather praise those who make an effort. Also give a tip if you see a player doing something in your opinion stupid. Most of them are probably overwhelmed and grateful for it. Punish those who insult and abuse others. It'll do the game more than good, I'm sure of that.

[RenamedUser_92906789]

I gave tips to many.

I got "shut up noob".

 

So yeah...

 

Also I hate people ignoring chat / pings etc ... and do their own thing and loose the game for the team.

Their response is either something insulting or "I play for fun". Sure ....

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 5 Minuten, Grolaris sagte:

Stop reporting bad players.

...

Punish those who insult and abuse others.

Just my POV, but you are talking about the very same players here.

[Yedwy]

@OP TLDQ WG is stimulating people to go to high too fast, if they wanted people to actually learn stuff they would keep them locked in T4 and lower for those 200 or so battles ie graying out the T5+ ships and all the premiums until That’s played out, they would also include a learning campaign that would stimulate people to learn crucial skills and apply them, possibly even again barring their way higher then the T4 before its completed (one might get a special cap and a T5/6 premium ship crate as a reward or something) but again WG doesn’t want that, what WG wants is the noobs to get smashed as soon as possible so they get frustrated and start spending on the premium content higher up which is councidentally MUCH more expensive…

[arttuperkunas]

11 minutes ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

Just my POV, but you are talking about the very same players here.

The rear admiral raging in chat rarely breaks 50%; more commonly 40-45% winrate. Not always a noob, though.

[maybe__baby]

if they all start to play well, we won't have enough meat. so let them play and have fun, they are not playing on the cow. only schoolchildren play statistics. successful men, businessmen or big heads of state corporations are ashamed to play on statistics.

[Trench4nt]

Vor 33 Minuten, Grolaris sagte:

Hello folks,

 

For some time now I've been enjoying the forum here - and one thing strikes me in particular: Beginners and newcomers have a particularly difficult time in Wows. Not because of the game, but because the community makes it so difficult for them. Yes, we make it difficult for newcomers. Hardly a week goes by without someone opening a thread on how to keep new players out of all modes. In the game itself they are insulted and reported wherever possible. Sometimes the insults continue after the game in port chat. 

 

Why is that?

 

I think the stats and the way you move up ranked lead to this. Everyone has to win, otherwise the statistics are red (deadly sin, nobody takes you seriously) or you take a step back in the ladder. That's annoying. Maybe you used expensive flags, they are gone too. The argument that this is part of the game does not apply here. There is frustration, someone is looking for a scapegoat - and it starts loudly.

 

Yes, when I am playing, I want to win - but no - I typically do not want to achieve this on my own. It is teamplay, you know...

In fact, at the higher tiers, I fell myself experienced enough to identify a beginner who made it to T10 with less than 500 battles. 

 

I understand that the average 10k-battles-45%-WR player does not listen to other more experienced players, because otherwise he won't have 45% WR, but I do not understand why it is so difficult, as a beginner, to listen to things that are written in chat. However, I currently play a lot of T9/T10 and there are only few player with less than 1000 matches. So actually the current system works quite well.

[MementoMori_6030]

This was a game where my entire team except for me had a WR between 39% and 44%.

Did I report anyone? Did I insult anyone? No. It's a game, and uneven distribution of potatoes is a part of it.

[ZeMalm]

7 minutes ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

This was a game where my entire team except for me had a WR between 39% and 44%.

Did I report anyone? Did I insult anyone? No. It's a game, and uneven distribution of potatoes is a part of it.

 

7 minutes ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

 

I am a bit unsure of what you are trying to state with this screenshot?

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 15 Minuten, ZeMalm sagte:

I am a bit unsure of what you are trying to state with this screenshot?

Bad players are part of the game. Cursing or educating them changes nothing.

[Redcap375]

Lots of new people play, few want to learn. 

 

Too many people want to be spoonfed or simply want to go "pew pew". If that's their definition of enjoyment then fine, each to their own. 

 

WOWS have never helped new players. Back in the CV RTS days, WG never once brought out a training video on how to play them. The players had to do it for themselves. 

 

When I started playing I looked at videos, ask questions on this forum, got involved in a clan from the start and I listened to people. LISTENED.

 

By doing all that mixed with my natural competive nature and wanting to always better myself I turned into a decent player.. 

 

It wasn't easy, it wasn't quick and took time but good things to those that wait. In this day and age, people don't wanna wait as everything is moving so fast. 

 

It takes discipline and the want to get better and many many many people don't want that or have it. 

[RenamedUser_92906789]

Welcome EPIC GAMES player :D :D

[BanzaiPiluso]

I don't mind the new players and their mistakes, we all been there,  but the experienced ones making all sort of stupid moves. Those are the ones I report. 

[Ocsimano18]

The question is not what I do with them, but what WG does with them. They put them into T10 submarines and send them into battle

[anonym_cwVecOS6ecVy]

3 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

Lots of new people play, few want to learn. 

 

Too many people want to be spoonfed or simply want to go "pew pew". 

 

WOWS have never helped new players. Back in the CV RTS days, WG never once brought out a training video on how to play them. The players had to do it for themselves. 

 

When I started playing I looked at videos, ask questions on this forum, got involved in a clan from the start and I Listened to people. 

 

By doing all that mixed with my natural competive nature and wanting to always better myself I turned into a decent player.. 

It is the same braindead 5 year old drooling and thumb sucking fanbase in the vast majority like in World of Tanks. They can insta suicide with a PR of 115 and a 35% WR after 30.000 battles and still try to school the entire team. Then even upon mildly asking what actually went wrong they wish you and your family cancer and such. No other game franchise than WG's is such a host and magnet for the inable, infantile, learning-resistant, ignorant and unsporting completely braindead population. Skill does not scale AT ALL, not even after tens of thousands of battles played. Not even in Call of Duty you have that many zero skill bots. It is like throwing yourself on the ground in a soccer game,  refusing to play and crying while mother Karen insists her failed individual needs to be part of the team otherwise she would file complaints to "corporate". And the entire rest of the team is punished for having to deal with idiots. The entire WG franchise revolves only around who has less bots on the team, not which team actually plays more clever. And WG actively promotes and incentivices the skipping of tiers and cashing into higher tier premiums, making the experience worse and worse for every single committed player. And ON TOP OF THAT they are punished with CVs and submarines.

[Grolaris]

Vor 15 Minuten, Redcap375 sagte:

Lots of new people play, few want to learn. 

 

Too many people want to be spoonfed or simply want to go "pew pew". If that's their definition of enjoyment then fine, each to their own. 

 

WOWS have never helped new players. Back in the CV RTS days, WG never once brought out a training video on how to play them. The players had to do it for themselves. 

 

When I started playing I looked at videos, ask questions on this forum, got involved in a clan from the start and I listened to people. LISTENED.

 

By doing all that mixed with my natural competive nature and wanting to always better myself I turned into a decent player.. 

 

It wasn't easy, it wasn't quick and took time but good things to those that wait. In this day and age, people don't wanna wait as everything is moving so fast. 

 

It takes discipline. 

 

Thats' the way to go. I think we should encourage every new player to learn the game. The discipline comes with the first successes.

 

Vor 2 Minuten, Ocsimano18 sagte:

The question is not what I do with them, but what WG does with them. They put them into T10 submarines and send them into battle

 

I'm not really a friend of discouraging players to not try the higher Tiers. WG won't stop them either and sells their most expansive ships there, so let anyone play these tiers too. Most will notice very fast that they'll be more competative in lower tiers for the time being. As I started, i know very soon that I have to learn more to make a few points there. The more you are trying to keep anyone out of higher tiers, the more attractive those tiers seem to the new players.

[MadBadDave]

3 hours ago, Grolaris said:

Hello folks,

 

For some time now I've been enjoying the forum here - and one thing strikes me in particular: Beginners and newcomers have a particularly difficult time in Wows. Not because of the game, but because the community makes it so difficult for them. Yes, we make it difficult for newcomers. Hardly a week goes by without someone opening a thread on how to keep new players out of all modes. In the game itself they are insulted and reported wherever possible. Sometimes the insults continue after the game in port chat. 

 

Why is that?

 

I think the stats and the way you move up ranked lead to this. Everyone has to win, otherwise the statistics are red (deadly sin, nobody takes you seriously) or you take a step back in the ladder. That's annoying. Maybe you used expensive flags, they are gone too. The argument that this is part of the game does not apply here. There is frustration, someone is looking for a scapegoat - and it starts loudly.

 

Why is it played badly so often?

 

The game itself is complicated. The trailer "Duel" actually shows quite nicely which values you have to consider in order to play well. As a BB angle. Where you aim, which ammunition you use when, how you drive and how fast, what distance to the enemy makes sense - you basically have to learn and know that before you can get better. And not only with your ship, but also with the enemy. Which DD is it? Hat it smoke? How far does its torpedoes go, and the like. Even more so as a DD player, as I need to know immediately what the radar range is and how the ship is armed in order to be able to play well. There are around 500 ships in the game - it takes time to get the hang of it.

 

The only way to learn this is to play the game. Nobody sits down and crumbles several weeks of ship data before they start. That has to come gradually. I think that a lot of people (especially those who are constantly thinking of new things about how to keep beginners out of all areas of play) no longer have this on their radar because they are there from the beginning. How many ships and mechanics were there in the beginning? 30 ships and one mechanic? It's much easier to take it with you one by one than having to learn everything at once. The game itself does not provide any help.

 

Why do players often have lousy stats?

 

The system with the win / lose ratio is not bad, but it benefits players who are there from the start. This gives a nice picture over time. But a beginner will lose in the beginning. Often. All the time. And what he loses, he has to win again in return in order to somehow get out of the red zone. This takes a while. Often you can't just start over because you've already bought some (expensive) ships - you have to play your way in the green zone over the years. You can do that, but until then you are not really taken seriously as a player and you have to take some verbal beating.

 

Why do the bad players of all people play on my team?

 

WG relies on matchmaking, which throws players of all skill levels together. An inexperienced player would therefore not want to play against cracks with you, he would certainly prefer a match with opponents of equal strength, perhaps even weaker ones to practice. But that is not possible in terms of the game. Especially when he doesn't know his way around well, his ship is "undertiered" and desperately trying to make the most of the game, he needs the help of the cracks - and not insults.

 

Why do I write this?

 

I love this game. In principle, it is the only one of its kind and if you have been around for a while and begin to understand the game properly, it begins to really unfold its depth. But games live from a constant stream of new players. We have to be open to "noobs" who are just starting out and slowly finding their way into the game. We must give everyone time to learn and understand these mechanics. The more players play it, the more new it is, the more new there is, the longer it runs. Games that want to limit themselves to a hardcore basis and have only listened to their wishes disappear quickly (best example: Wildstar).

 

Therefore: Stop reporting bad players, rather praise those who make an effort. Also give a tip if you see a player doing something in your opinion stupid. Most of them are probably overwhelmed and grateful for it. Punish those who insult and abuse others. It'll do the game more than good, I'm sure of that.

WR, pure and simple.

 

remove that or make it invisible (so that you can only see your own stats), and you immediately remove the biggest burden and potential to insult others, leaving us to just think about playing the game, and not getting mad because a total A hole has ruined your game play and WR,  we can all see how bad things have got by playing a couple of convoys, there is stupid and then there are those we all regularly see; absolutely brain dead.

 

WG could help ALOT, remove WR, improve MM, promote Map awareness, restrict access to higher tiers, release more lower tier premiums, improve the Karma system which is about as out of date as WG’s customer care.   
 

But it’s WG so they’ll do Absolutely zero, except release another high tier paper ship.

 

 

[webaake]

I totally agree with the original post! Thanks for taking the time and write a long and insightful post!

 

Just as ingame, it is at the forum - a new guy has a   legit question about the game like; " what's the best cammo for X" - and often the answers question his ability to play. They look up his stats and belittle him. Over the years, I've been in many forums and this is by far the most unfriendly I've ever been a member of. This culture doesn't promote new players at all. As well as the chat ingame, does not welcome new players. 

 

As a side note: the way Coop is set up these days, it does not encourage teamplay either. The matches are so quick that each player races to the juiciest target to get his ponts. "I me mine" - as George Harrison said. 

 

Let's ponder about the culture. Where does it come from? After reading posts, articles and viewing youtube clips I can wonder it it isn't coming from the top? From the Russian company World Gaming? At least WG has allowed it.

 

Remember; poeple aren't snow flakes - they are just normal people wanting to play a fun game. A game!

[Redcap375]

The single biggest thing that stops players getting better and this is from 6 years of running a clan is this..... 

 

They don't listen. 

 

In a nutshell, they don't listen. 

 

Second is not taking responsibility. 

 

There was a player that came into our clan and he was the lowest WR we have ever had. However, there was potential in him as from the moment he joined (and seen him in battle, hence the invite) he asked questions and listened. 

 

He constantly made mistakes and those he div with gave him advice in every game. He asked questions and always said "that's my fault", because it mainly was. 

 

Those 3 words are the best thing you wanna hear as a veteran player or recruiter. Admitting to mistakes and thats harder than it sounds. You can work with someone like that. 

 

That player is now a solid CB player and has gone from 45% to 56%. Testiment to not only him, but the clan members who helped him. 

 

The greatest gift you can ever give someone is time. 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

5 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

 

In a nutshell, they don't listen. 

 

Second is not taking responsibility

Yes those two things mostly. 

I mean I can understand why one wouldnt want to listen to Ingame chat but in a clan environment it should be easy to accept constructive criticism. 

 

I don't understand why they don't want to own up for their own mistakes blaming everything else:

*RNG

*Shells fall shot bug

*Desync

*Bad team

*Bad MM

*Bad ship balance

*CV

 

instead of asking themselves what they did to get into the early sinking situation they blame all this and therefore because it's never their fault they always continue the same mistakes never learning 

[Deckeru_Maiku]

9 minutes ago, webaake said:

they are just normal people wanting to play a fun game

That's probably the main problem: many aren't... and their definition of "fun" is mindboggling far away from what should be considered "fun" in a PvP game.

I wouldn't mind anyone potato as the most rotten potato on the planet IN CoOp - but when one dares to go into the PvP modes one should at least have the decency to play in a way that doesn't negates one's team's chances to win.

[BLUB__BLUB]

15 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

That player is now a solid CB player and has gone from 45% to 56%.

 

If we could all have players like that all the time

Yes, and he is probably having fun improving himself and his gameplay. Good one! 

But for each one like him, there are 10 others that just move their mouse around while watching XHamster on the other screen... 

[Redcap375]

If you are reading this now and you wanna learn how to get better.. 

 

Join a clan. 

 

I don't care which one, just join one and go from there depending on what you want. 

 

Any clan worth it's salt should help its players in some form. 

[CptBarney]

13 minutes ago, webaake said:

I totally agree with the original post! Thanks for taking the time and write a long and insightful post!

 

Just as ingame, it is at the forum - a new guy has a   legit question about the game like; " what's the best cammo for X" - and often the answers question his ability to play. They look up his stats and belittle him. Over the years, I've been in many forums and this is by far the most unfriendly I've ever been a member of. This culture doesn't promote new players at all. As well as the chat ingame, does not welcome new players. 

 

As a side note: the way Coop is set up these days, it does not encourage teamplay either. The matches are so quick that each player races to the juiciest target to get his ponts. "I me mine" - as George Harrison said. 

 

Let's ponder about the culture. Where does it come from? After reading posts, articles and viewing youtube clips I can wonder it it isn't coming from the top? From the Russian company World Gaming? At least WG has allowed it.

 

Remember; poeple aren't snow flakes - they are just normal people wanting to play a fun game. A game!

If you don't expect bad service from others, why do you provide it to others and complain when people point you out on it?

 

Either except that you are subpar and improve or continue to be bad and complain, simple. 

 

Not too mention most older players are fed up of bads belitting them or insulting them or whinging on the forums when if they were to start of with 'Hi, im new to the game and seem to not be very good is there anyways to improve my gameplay? Any videos i could watch and players i could play with to get better and improve my understanding of this game?'

 

It's not hard, its just that most people (including you and me) are lazy arses that would rather go into ego mode than accept they are bad at something, since once you do that you tend to get better and better and better.

 

Common sense really, you can apply this to literally anything in life.

[tocqueville8]

1) Make Co-Op profitable, even at high tiers

 

2) Add high tier Operations, where bad players (with a minimum of map awareness, or just decent memory from playing the same Op over and over) can still win and have fun.

 

Right now, bad players who just want to sail the Yamato in a videogame are pretty much forced into Randoms because grinding the Izumo in Co-Op takes forever (and doesn't pay for itself).

Instead of restricting access to Randoms, or Ranked as it is often proposed, I say make the alternatives more attractive. Not more attractive than Randoms, but more attractive than they are right now.

 

I think that would reduce the amount of frustration considerably for all players: good, bad or average.

Trolls gotta troll, but I suspect most high tier players with 40-45% WR are there simply because the alternatives are unappealing, not because they like having a go at 12 opponents in most cases better than them.