First Khaba, then GK...........Next Mogami?

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

I take the point that WG is doing some reorganization of the Tech Tree because certain ships "don't fit!.

 

Seriously though, isn't Mogami a prime candidate for this kind of fix?

 

Make the 155mm gun Mogami the special ship, and make the 203mm Mogami the regular Tech Tree ship.

 

Perhaps add a slight nerf to the 155mm Mogami and drop it to Tier 7 (where I understand she was originally?)

 

Come on @MrConway, How about it?
 

[Smeggo]

Yes, that sounds reasonable.

Also same with Izumo.

[Miscommunication_dept]

Republique first.

 

 

[Vbeest]

Interesting that such ideas are supported by players. It is nothing pro-player, to have interesting ships as premium/special ships. It is shifting interesting, valuable content away from F2P content.

But then again, if players were even a bit aware, the game would not look like it looks now... They are potato-ing in battles equally as they do in life.

 

On topic - Mogami is the only IJN cruiser somehow interesting in the entire line. As WG, sure I would rather see you paying for it.

[Prophecy82]

So you want a whole boring same-old-same-old IJN CA Tree from T5 - T9..... 

Sounds lame. 

 

Dont touch 155mm Mogami she is fine as she is (wouldnt mind getting her as premium variant tho)

Downtiering would be terrible for her: HE-Pen is lower at T7 and no access to 5th module are just dealbreakers. 

[stefanorgano]

Can't see the point honestly. 155 Mogami is great fun and surprisingly effective (if you don't explode upon contact). Yes you need a dedicated IFHE captain but who cares.

Apparently this whole thing of replacing "unpopular" or "underperforming" ships (which I'm not entirely against) is taking place at T10 though, maybe they will do something similar with Zao, who knows.

[tocqueville8]

24 minutes ago, Vbeest said:

Interesting that such ideas are supported by players. It is nothing pro-player, to have interesting ships as premium/special ships. It is shifting interesting, valuable content away from F2P content.

But then again, if players were even a bit aware, the game would not look like it looks now... They are potato-ing in battles equally as they do in life.

Hmmm...what ?

 

1) coal is F2P: you can't just buy it for real money

2) plenty of players already own these ships, so the only thing they're going to get from the change, from what I gather, is a free T10 permacamo (or T8, I suppose, if it happened to the Mogami)

3) if they don't own them, researching the GK with FXP is cheaper than getting a T9 premium (e.g. the Azuma)

4) FXP is also F2P

5) the Alexander Nevsky, which replaced the Moskva as the tech tree T10, is a ton of fun, so I have no objection there anyway.

[fumtu]

1 hour ago, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

Make the 155mm gun Mogami the special ship, and make the 203mm Mogami the regular Tech Tree ship.

 

How about no. Mogami is good as it is. Making Mogami 203mm as only choice would just make whole like bland. T8 and T9 would basically be a same ships with just some stats tweaks as difference.

 

Quote

Perhaps add a slight nerf to the 155mm Mogami and drop it to Tier 7 (where I understand she was originally?)

 

Yes it was and was stupidly broken. Just compare it to Helena. Same amount of guns, better arcs, better HE, more health and plus 2x4 10km torps per side. Helena is great T7 but compared to T7 Mogami it wold look weak. Mogami would need to be smacked with heavy nerf bat to fit at T7, so much that it would probably not be fun anymore. So no thanks, even as a premium Mogami should be T8. I would argue that Helena should, and easily could especially considering real RoF of those guns, too but WG obviously don't think the same.

[WeGreedy]

1 hour ago, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

Seriously though, isn't Mogami a prime candidate for this kind of fix?

My bet is, there will be a split eventually.

[Wulf_Ace]

1 hour ago, gopher31 said:

Republique first.

 

 

whats wrong with him?

[Hugh_Ruka]

Zao will be next ...

[Miscommunication_dept]

11 minutes ago, Wulf_Ace said:

whats wrong with him?

Very different from all the previous ships, going from large amount of small guns to small amount of larger guns. 

 

It is very different to the rest of the line

[SmokinSerj]

2 hours ago, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

I take the point that WG is doing some reorganization of the Tech Tree because certain ships "don't fit!.

 

Seriously though, isn't Mogami a prime candidate for this kind of fix?

 

Make the 155mm gun Mogami the special ship, and make the 203mm Mogami the regular Tech Tree ship.

 

Perhaps add a slight nerf to the 155mm Mogami and drop it to Tier 7 (where I understand she was originally?)

 

Come on @MrConway, How about it?
 

 

I really don't understand something:  why would someone recommend something like this? Did you just unlocked the Mogami and now hope others will only get the worse version?  Why, for instance, not make the 203mm Mogami a special ship and he 155 the techtree one?

I mean, why someone would ever open mouth on a subject like this?

[FooFaFie]

If you go Mogami > Ibuki > Zao. Isn't Ibuki the weird one in the list?

[stefanorgano]

30 minutes ago, FieFaFoo said:

If you go Mogami > Ibuki > Zao. Isn't Ibuki the weird one in the list?

It's a natural progression from 203 Mogami. Kinda boring tbh, same 2x5 8' since Myoko. At least 155 Mogami breaks the cycle

[WWDragon]

2 hours ago, WeGreedy said:

My bet is, there will be a split eventually.

There wont, Mogami is a heavy cruiser and Ibuki was the planned follow up and she was under construction so no fantasy ship, Zao is a bit iffy but also grounded in designs made.

 

The IJN didnt bothered with light cruisers and at the first opportunity they upgunned their cruisers as that was always planned with new ships, the few newer light cruisers they had were destroyer leaders that were obsolete when launched.

 

So please tell us how there would be a split because you think Mogami is a light cruiser when she was designed from the go as a heavy cruiser and they put 155mm guns (they always intended to replace) to pretend it was totally WNT compliant.

 

Mogami as it is makes total sense, the 155mm are just a historical curiosity.

[tocqueville8]

1 hour ago, SmokinSerj said:

I really don't understand something:  why would someone recommend something like this? Did you just unlocked the Mogami and now hope others will only get the worse version?  Why, for instance, not make the 203mm Mogami a specialof  ship and he 155 the techtree one?

I mean, why someone would ever open mouth on a subject like this?

1) 203mm Mogami makes a lot more sense in the flow of the tech tree line, as that's the gun caliber from the Furutaka on to the Zao.

 

2) If you take IFHE on the 155s, you'd probably swap it out on the Ibuki, so there's some captain respeccing involved: it's more economical to use the alternative cruiser build of a different captain, e.g. your Yamato or Kagero captain, free of charge because the 155 option would be a premium.

 

3) Honestly, how can you be so sure 155-Mogami is better than 203-Mogami? You're still at the Aoba, and you're not exactly doing well with her. We're not just talking about Co-Op here...

[SmokinSerj]

20 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

3) How can you be sure 155-Mogami is better than 203-Mogami? You're still at the Aoba, and you're not exactly doing well with her. We're not talking about Co-Op here...

 

I'm not sure, so far it's only from what I've read on the forums (I read a lot). After a proposal like this, I should rush in to unlock it. :))

 

Anyway, I was referring at Mogami, only because the OP was mentioning it. Supposing he's not a WG employee/affiliate/cc/whatever, I find it strange that - as a normal player - to propose something that would make the normal players (including himself!) to actually pay for. Well, if he is a WG-somehow-related person, then yes, I can understand that. Otherwise, it beats me!

[Verblonde]

1 hour ago, SmokinSerj said:

I really don't understand something:  why would someone recommend something like this?

Presumably, the poster is just speculating. In the past, WG have said that they aim to have consistency within tech tree lines, such that the progression up the tiers follows a logical progression. In the case of the IJN cruisers, 155 mm Mogami is a bit of an outlier in that regard.

 

My personal view is that things might as well stay as they are: yeah, 155 mm Mogami is weird, but you don't have to play that configuration if you don't want to.

 

Of course, for WG, 155 mm Mogami is an obvious target for turning into a premium (in the manner of the Doom Cannon version of ISU-152 in WOT), using the *excuse* of maintaining consistency, but that's an entirely different discussion...

[WeGreedy]

1 hour ago, WWDragon said:

So please tell us how there would be a split

Nagara, Agano, Oyodo, Mogami, Fantasy I, Fantasy II

I'm not saying this is any good, nor that I'm an expert, but a split  isn't impossible.

 

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

2 hours ago, SmokinSerj said:

I really don't understand something:  why would someone recommend something like this? Did you just unlocked the Mogami and now hope others will only get the worse version?  Why, for instance, not make the 203mm Mogami a special ship and he 155 the techtree one?

I mean, why someone would ever open mouth on a subject like this?

Thank you for taking trouble to reply to my topic, even though it seems a trifle "strong". I have had the Mogami since about January 2016. It is "out of place", though It seens that some people think that is is a GOOD thing, and I respect their reasons.

1 hour ago, SmokinSerj said:

Supposing he's not a WG employee/affiliate/cc/whatever, I find it strange that - as a normal player - to propose something that would make the normal players (including himself!) to actually pay for.

There are a lot of posters on this forum I do not expect you to remember me, but if you did then that IS THE LAST SUGGESTION THAT YOU WOULD MAKE! LOL

1 hour ago, Verblonde said:

Presumably, the poster is just speculating.

Indeed i am - but even speculation is punished in the modern world for "wrong think".

[WWDragon]

7 hours ago, WeGreedy said:

Nagara, Agano, Oyodo, Mogami, Fantasy I, Fantasy II

I'm not saying this is any good, nor that I'm an expert, but a split  isn't impossible.

 

Nagara were a follow up on the Kuma class build in the 1920's, having the same hull, engines and armament layout as the Kuma except they had a modified bridge that included a hangar as well new larger torpedo launchers as they were the first cruisers equipped with the Long Lance torpedoes, they did received changes during the war including removing the catapults and replacing some of the turrets with twin mount 127mm turrets.

 

Not mentioned was Sendai that was a further improvement on the Nagara with better location for the boilers as well 4 funnels and they were the last light cruisers until the Agano class in 1939 to replace the ageing light cruisers, that was roughly 15 years.

 

The Agano class was based on Yubari and at this point I should just stop because nobody wants a line of Yubari but since its only based on, they had 152mm in a 3x2 arrangement (Leander have 4x2) and a quad launcher on each side for Long Lance torpedoes, this happened because they tried to fit 155mm in a triple arrangement but since they lacked Lesta ability to ignore things such as Newton physics they were forced to revise it to 4x2 152mm and then remove a turret to increase the torpedo armament and since they saved weigh they also strengthen the anti-air that I suppose is were those Type 96 25 mm come in because muh french japanese gun, folded 1000 times. As for armor ... 60 mm machinery belt (I suppose this mean citadel), 55mm magazine belt and 20mm deck armor, these were less armored that Leander that were launched in the earlier 30's.

 

And now Oyodo, it had 2x2 155mm guns and this is were I should stop because the Oyodo were meant not to be destroyer leaders but rather submarine leaders with a firing rate of 5 rounds a minute ... yes, a reload of 12 seconds with just 2 turrets, also here is the number of torpedo tubes ... ZERO! Reason why is weight, since they were meant to be submarine leaders the weight was used instead for carrying recon planes, they were better armored that the Agano but only notable in the sense the deck armor was increased to 30mm with some sections 50mm as well the belt armor was entirely 60mm as well other improvements but then again, I am not sure of the source I am looking (wikipedia) is incomplete about the Agano or that the Oyodo had a more complex armor scheme with a 155mm armor roof over the magazine space among others but otherwise, Oyodo as a surface combatant seems to be better armored that the Agano but less guns with a slight increase in caliber with a worst rate of fire (Agano could fire a extra round per minute).

 

This is why its impossible, the IJN stopped developing light cruisers with the Sendai class until they had replace then, there was no continuation of design ... there is nothing to work with and neither Agano and especially Oyodo are mid tier ships because they were meant to be flagships of destroyers squadron in Agano case and submarines squadrons in Oyodo case. The reason behind light cruiser development was ... protection of convoys against raiders, Japan did not seen the need for then and with the limited resources they had that would eaten into their heavy cruiser construction that in their eyes was more important for that oh so important Decisive Battle , light cruisers and with Washington Naval Treaty defining light cruisers as well setting tonnage limits all powers build to their limits, this is why Mogami were "light cruisers" because Japan already build all the allotted tonnage for heavy cruisers and were trying to cheat the system, its not as if they didnt lie about their tonnage because they were going over the 10,00 ton limits too, when the war broke out (almost) everyone kinda stop building light cruisers with the Fiji being ordered in 1937 and the Minotaur class being kinda ... being build and completed but no real priority, USN light cruisers were derivatives of either the Atlanta or Cleveland and were used as anti-aircraft escorts mostly even if they also had the same reason as the British to build light cruisers, to protect their cargo ships from raiders (error 404 - surface raider not found), and this was true for most navies as well ... build to WNT limits, Germany wasnt a part of and they focused in building a more balanced fleet, M class was planned and even started construction but they were naturally German and thus COMMERCE RAIDERS because apparently that gave the Kriegsmarine a stify since that worked so well back in WW I right Raeder? It won the war didnt it?

 

In the end Mogami is not a light cruiser, if you think that then you also believe Yamato was totally within WNT limits ... making it a light cruiser is simply wrong.

[doerhoff_damian]

I would not be surprided if we get an IJN Cruiser split with the 155mm Mogami becoming the T8 light Cruiser and the 203mm Mogami becoming the T8 heavy Cruiser.

And one of them will get another Name

[Hades_warrior]

First Khaba? Wasn't Moskva the first one?

[doerhoff_damian]

Vor 7 Stunden, WeGreedy sagte:

Agano

We have an Agano-Class Cruiser ingame. It is the Tier 5 Premium Cruiser Yahagi