Division Matchmaking in Randoms

[Dukemaster105]

Something has always been possible in Wargaming's titles. That is to form a division, platoon, or whatever and play the game with your friends or other random people. They don't always have to be good players, nor do you, and none of you need to be on some kind of voice chat. However, there are always the elitists out there that exploit the system. Those 60%+ winrate people who only ever seem to play the game in three-ship divisions with two other 60%+ winrate friends and dominate battles. Even people who have 70%+ winrates, which I don't know how that's even possible if you aren't using illegal mods or are otherwise cheating.

 

My proposal is one of two things.

 

1: Ban divisions completely. You can't form a division in port or in battle, and thus can't rig the game in your favor with specifically picked ships that work well together and become an unstoppable force. Or simpler than that, just being one of the elitists and only playing with your other elitist friends. Thus, everyone is forced to play the game solo and rely on people they've never seen before and will never see again. Which makes the game fair. Everyone has the same advantages or disadvantages, nobody can rig the game in their favor.

 

2: Hard-cap all divisions to always be bottom tier, no matter what. Then, if three elitists try and play really strong ships in a division and support each other, they'll always be bottom tier against far stronger ships that can deal with them far easier than if they were middle or top tier. Then if the three-ship division of elitists performs well and wins, they can pad their already massive egos even more by dominating as bottom tier ships.

 

Of course you're probably wondering why I don't play with my friends and try and do the same and rig the game in my favor? Well, because I play fair and don't exploit the game mechanics to get an unfair advantage.

Besides, I don't have any friends. Something I don't see changing any time soon.

[SV_Kompresor]

I like how it's all...you know. Elitists and cheaters and not just clan members diving up. Or hell, friends. Well I'm sorry that my friends don't suck at the game, I'm sorry that I taught them how to play well. I'm not going to stop playing with them just because they are good.

[lameoll]

Imagine wanting to ban smart play because you cant win against them. meanwhile saying nothing about how radars/ different dd's are divided. 

 

oh this playerbase .

[Dukemaster105]

I don't want to ban smart play, never have and never will. Nor would I want to stop good players from playing the game. If anything, it's the elitists that are driving people away. You get three good players playing together and dominating battles, what do you think the losers in those battles will do? Enjoy getting dominated and having no say in the outcome of the battle? Or quit the game because it's unfair and isn't fun? I guarantee you you'd feel differently if you were the ones being crushed and there was nothing you could do, or everything you did didn't matter. Remember, this game isn't just for the elitists and stat-padders to massage their massive egos and compliment each other on how awesome they always are, this game is supposed to be for everyone. The excellent, good, average, poor, and terrible. I'm not stopping excellent players from playing this game, just stopping them from doing it in a group with other excellent players and rigging things in their favor. Because, if those players really are good and really are skilled, they don't need friends or help. If they're really as good as they think they are, they can win on their own with eleven strangers that they'll never see again.

 

Unless of course you think a game that's unfair and unfun for most people is what you want.

 

Or we can partition people into separate servers based on their winrates. Then we'd always have fair fights all the time, with and against peer players.

 

Post-Edit: Interesting to see the winrates on the people who complain. Your opinions match your winrates.

49% and below: Want the game to be fair.

50%-60%: Want the game to be fair.

60%+: Want the game to be unfair in their favor.

[SV_Kompresor]

11 minutes ago, Dukemaster105 said:

49% and below: Want the game to be fair.

No, actually those players mostly want mm to offer them wins without their effort.

[USS_Billy_Herrington]

Please stop typing. All your ''proposals'' amount to punishing people for playing this game well.
Deal with it. Suck it up. Or quit. 

[Bear__Necessities]

Everything you've written is a joke. Somebody yeet this thread I to the sea.

[Aragathor]

I'm very sorry about your personal situation, however this isn't the place to talk about it.

Have you considered professional help, to help you socialize with others more, and maybe limit the negative influence of your current situation on your life?

I really hope you can find friends in the future and wish you the best.

[ColonelPete]

1 hour ago, Dukemaster105 said:

Something has always been possible in Wargaming's titles. That is to form a division, platoon, or whatever and play the game with your friends or other random people. They don't always have to be good players, nor do you, and none of you need to be on some kind of voice chat. However, there are always the elitists out there that exploit the system. Those 60%+ winrate people who only ever seem to play the game in three-ship divisions with two other 60%+ winrate friends and dominate battles. Even people who have 70%+ winrates, which I don't know how that's even possible if you aren't using illegal mods or are otherwise cheating.

When you play in division, it is ok, but when others do it, it is not?

Take a guess what 40% winrate players would say about your division...

Btw, if you played more 3 man divisions, you would probably be one of those 60%+ WR players. Your 3 man division WR is 69%....

 

And no, not everyone better than you is cheating.

 

And yes, EVERYONE of us has lost battles and we could not prevent it. That is not something special...

Most of us just do not see the need to go to the forum and whine about it. We pick ourselves up and some even analyze what went wrong and what we could do better next time.

 

And people of your skilllevel make up 2.2% of the playerbase. Probably great fun to play on a server with only 550 people

[PaxtonQuigly]

1 hour ago, Dukemaster105 said:

Besides, I don't have any friends. Something I don't see changing any time soon.

 

1 hour ago, Dukemaster105 said:

If anything, it's the elitists that are driving people away.

Yes, let's ask them nicely to stop being so good so Average Joe can finally have fun too.... 

1 hour ago, Dukemaster105 said:

I guarantee you you'd feel differently if you were the ones being crushed and there was nothing you could do, or everything you did didn't matter.

Ah so that's why the top #100 of players with most battles played have mostly abysmal winrates. Dude, this game evolves around mediocre players of whom most don't give a **** about winning or stats. Only 1 in a hundred has 55% wr and 1 in a thousand has 60% winrate. Only a handful of players out of all who you will ever meet in battle have 65%+ wr. 

 

You know what is really the problem? All this talk about "fair" and "cheating" without ever seeing the real issue:

 

You want to have your cake and eat it too. You want to win as much as those pesky elitists do without putting in the work. You want to have as much fun as they do, crushing every enemy team they meet, but you dont want to spend the time learning the intricacies of the game. All this under a false pretence of wanting to play the game "fair". 

 

The words "there is nothing you can do" are examplary of your overall mindset in this game. A mindset that will never let you grow your skill set, because why should you? It's all predetermined, right? 

1 hour ago, Dukemaster105 said:

Or we can partition people into separate servers based on their winrates. Then we'd always have fair fights all the time, with and against peer players.

Sure, let me start my own server with the other three players with 70%+ winrates. 

 

I've seen this proposal so many times by now. And all who proposed it seem to be very bad at math. What happens when you remove the top and bottom percentiles to let only 50% players play amongst each other? At some point some will become the new 60% elitist. Remove them and the cycle continues. All the way until there is noone left. By very definition there will always be best and worst players. 

 

You could always play ranked battles if you want to have ""fair"" games without having to deal with cheating uniscum divisions. 

[Aethervoxx]

2 hours ago, Dukemaster105 said:

Ban divisions completely.

I cannot agree with this. 

[Aethervoxx]

2 hours ago, Dukemaster105 said:

Hard-cap all divisions to always be bottom tier,

Nor can I agree with this.

[Aethervoxx]

Ideally, both Random teams should have exactly the same number of Div players in the same mirrored Divs, eg both teams have a three player Div of the same tier, etc.

This could work & would be 'fair' on the face of it (ignoring the actual player skills), however, doing this might result in a very long queue time.

[inkedsoulz]

2 hours ago, Dukemaster105 said:

Something has always been possible in Wargaming's titles. That is to form a division, platoon, or whatever and play the game with your friends or other random people. They don't always have to be good players, nor do you, and none of you need to be on some kind of voice chat. However, there are always the elitists out there that exploit the system. Those 60%+ winrate people who only ever seem to play the game in three-ship divisions with two other 60%+ winrate friends and dominate battles. Even people who have 70%+ winrates, which I don't know how that's even possible if you aren't using illegal mods or are otherwise cheating.

 

My proposal is one of two things.

 

1: Ban divisions completely. You can't form a division in port or in battle, and thus can't rig the game in your favor with specifically picked ships that work well together and become an unstoppable force. Or simpler than that, just being one of the elitists and only playing with your other elitist friends. Thus, everyone is forced to play the game solo and rely on people they've never seen before and will never see again. Which makes the game fair. Everyone has the same advantages or disadvantages, nobody can rig the game in their favor.

 

2: Hard-cap all divisions to always be bottom tier, no matter what. Then, if three elitists try and play really strong ships in a division and support each other, they'll always be bottom tier against far stronger ships that can deal with them far easier than if they were middle or top tier. Then if the three-ship division of elitists performs well and wins, they can pad their already massive egos even more by dominating as bottom tier ships.

 

Of course you're probably wondering why I don't play with my friends and try and do the same and rig the game in my favor? Well, because I play fair and don't exploit the game mechanics to get an unfair advantage.

Besides, I don't have any friends. Something I don't see changing any time soon.

 

Sadge

[SodaBubbles]

3 hours ago, Dukemaster105 said:

Something has always been possible in Wargaming's titles. That is to form a division, platoon, or whatever and play the game with your friends or other random people. They don't always have to be good players, nor do you, and none of you need to be on some kind of voice chat. However, there are always the elitists out there that exploit the system. Those 60%+ winrate people who only ever seem to play the game in three-ship divisions with two other 60%+ winrate friends and dominate battles. Even people who have 70%+ winrates, which I don't know how that's even possible if you aren't using illegal mods or are otherwise cheating.

In nearly 400 games at T7 in three-person divisions in the run up to the idiotic CV rework, my div mates and I averaged almost exactly 70% on NA. We don't use cheats, we are just good. 

 

3 hours ago, Dukemaster105 said:

 

Of course you're probably wondering why I don't play with my friends and try and do the same and rig the game in my favor? Well, because I play fair and don't exploit the game mechanics to get an unfair advantage.

Besides, I don't have any friends. Something I don't see changing any time soon.

You are in a clan and you have over 700 battles in divisions. 

[El2aZeR]

3 hours ago, Dukemaster105 said:

Even people who have 70%+ winrates, which I don't know how that's even possible if you aren't using illegal mods or are otherwise cheating.

 

Well, fiddlesticks, you've done it now. You finally caught me. 

 

3 hours ago, Dukemaster105 said:

this game is supposed to be for everyone.

 

The rules apply to everyone equally irrespective of their skill level. That's a concept called "fairness" in case you've never heard of it.

[tocqueville8]

I think the OP has a point that divisions, whether of good players or bad players (they generally stick with one another), effectively rig Random matchmaking.

 

I mean, how can it be "random" if you're guaranteed to have those other players on your side?

 

However, the point of divisioning, to me at least, is not to soothe one's ego by winning more often, but rather sociability: one plays with friends or family members to enjoy their company. Removing it would be anti-social.

 

Because both aspects are worth preserving, I'm in favor of the matchmaker balancing not the number of divisions on the teams, which can be of grossly different quality, but the overall quality of the teams, to some extent: let's say, the average WR can't differ by more than 3-4 points.

 

I think that would be a good compromise between fairness and sociability.

 

Cheers 

[lliuhto]

For me this game would be pretty much dead if they removed possibility of division play. I enjoy most playing with my real life friends, then next most with my other clan mates. If none are available, it would mean playing alone. I used to do that too, but recently I've mostly done some co-op grinding alone. Randoms just are not that fun alone. And it's not about *winning*, I'm much more willing to lose in a division than to win alone. It's about playing and having good time with your friends.

[MrWastee]

without my clanmates i'd most probably would've been long gone!

 

also, it's a teamgame!... so why kick out the the only slight iteration of that fact in randoms? i mean, 3 players out of 12!.... the others are "guarded" already, as it not is possible to form a bigger div than 3 players imo....

 

fairness is in the simple fact that there's no limits to whome can join divs btw.... any potato squad can go in divs (and oh, they do...........).......... if one now wants fairness in skill either (under given weegee's MM policy ^^): git gud, maybe together with others, no other way....

 

pointless thread is pointless

 

 

*on a note:

elitists ^^?! implicit in regard to members of my clan?!?! .... oh boy..... but yeah, if that means we prefer people who are able to at least somwhow get over themselves to may discover their potential to improve (or, preferably did so b4 coming over to us lol ), and are actually able to breath... guess we're elitists

[_JustDodge]

3 minutes ago, MrWastee said:

without my clanmates i'd most probably would've been long gone!

 

also, it's a teamgame!... so why kick out the the only slight iteration of that fact in randoms? i mean, 3 players out of 12!.... the others are "guarded" already, as it not is possible to form a bigger div than 3 players imo....

 

fairness is in the simple fact that there's no limits to whome can join divs btw.... any potato squad can go in divs (and oh, they do...........).......... if one now wants fairness in skill either (under given weegee's MM policy ^^): git gud, maybe together with others, no other way....

 

pointless thread is pointless

 

 

*on a note:

elitists ^^?! implicit in regard to members of my clan?!?! .... oh boy..... but yeah, if that means we prefer people who are able to at least somwhow get over themselves to may discover their potential to improve (or, preferably did so b4 coming over to us lol ), and are actually able to breath... guess we're elitists

Join us in division^^

[MrWastee]

1 minute ago, _JustDodge said:

Join us in division^^

.... maccie just hopped on me. just loaded client up to put the new blacks black perma on screen on the side....... no time yet, jeeeez , shoot u later

[Fat_Maniac]

11 hours ago, Dukemaster105 said:

Or we can partition people into separate servers based on their winrates. Then we'd always have fair fights all the time, with and against peer players.

 

No you wouldn't.

Over time everyone's win rate would move towards 50% and you would all end up on the same server.

You say you have no friends, yet you are a member of a clan. You should actually try div'ing with your clan mates or joining a clan where that happens, it's fun, and you don't always win. However top competitive clans will always be that, and when they div up it can be difficult to face. But the best way to counter it is to be in a div yourself so you can coordinate your response to their play.

[Rockstone_III]

I like playing in divisions so banning them is downright bad. And yes, I have a below 50 % winrate (as do most of the people I division-up with). 

Besides, you forget that in 50 % of the cases, these unicum divisions are on you side...

 

The idea of divisions always being bottom-tier, is effectively the same. I would take the fun out of divisions all together.

Bottom-tier is the necessary side-effect of having the possibility of being top-tier. I should remain random...

[CptBarney]

Imagine being this out of touch with the game, and playing since beta testing.

darwin award of intelligence goes too...

[Captain_Hook_]

13 hours ago, Dukemaster105 said:

You get three good players playing together and dominating battles, what do you think the losers in those battles will do?

players with +60 % WR represent only about 5% of the playerbase.

...

Three of them are much more seldom.