[PSA] Submarines participating in Random Battles in update 0.10.9.

[guy_incognito79]

1 hour ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

So nah, T2 to T4 is the way to go...

Ooohh maybe we'll get some new tier 2 - 4 premiums if many folks take refuge there.

[SodaBubbles]

4 hours ago, bEtHeNs said:

Why do you say they are toxic?

Because they are fun only for the person playing them, not for the person being targeted by them. Any one-sided mechanic whose purpose is only to cause harm to others, is by definition a toxic griefer mechanic.

[bEtHeNs]

1 hora antes, SodaBubbles dijo:

Because they are fun only for the person playing them, not for the person being targeted by them. Any one-sided mechanic whose purpose is only to cause harm to others, is by definition a toxic griefer mechanic.

If you go to the quotation of my post  he did, you will see he says the problem is not that what you say because somehow he can sink the submarines quite easily. Which is not what is happening with cvs. But he refused to give a answer but a pose of Clint Eastwood.

And his ease to kill submarines is amazing so I do not know why he considers them toxic if he can get rid of them so efficiently. 

It is not that I do not kow what toxic means in this context, thank you anyway for your explanation, but I do not understand why with his might he calls them so.

I have played ranked with submarines, in a submarine myself and I am quite aware of the damage I can do when I manage to do a good battle, and how annoyed the players I repeatedly shoot my homing torps at may have felt.

For me we are not in the same case as when the cvs rework. I liked very much the way the old cvs worked and I do dislike how the planes work now. But now we are about to experience something new with submarines, I am not putting myself in the position of announcing the end of the days, but I prefer to wait and see what it will be and then decide if I like it or not.

[SodaBubbles]

30 minutes ago, bEtHeNs said:

If you go to his quotation of my post  he did, you will see he says the problem is not that what you say because somehow he can sink the submarines quite easily. Which is not what is happening with cvs. But he refused to give a answer but a pose of Clint Eastwood.

And his ease to kill submarines is amazing so I do not know why he considers them toxic if he can get rid of them so efficiently. 

It is not that I do not kow what toxic means in this context, thank you anyway for your explanation, but I do not understand why with his might he calls them so.

I have played ranked with submarines, in a submarine myself and I am quite aware of the damage I can do when I manage to do a good battle, and how annoyed the players I repeatedly shoot my homing torps at may have felt.

For me we are not in the same case as when the cvs rework. I liked very much the way the old cvs worked and I do dislike how the planes work now. But now we are about to experience something new with submarines, I am not putting myself in the position of announcing the end of the days, but I prefer to wait and see what it will be and then decide if I like it or not.

It won't be the end of days. Toxic griefer mechanics like CVs and subs are aimed at a specific personality type that is very common in the gaming world, the kind of person who likes crapping on others at little risk to themselves. They dont much like thinking either. Such individuals degrade any social situation they are in, not just games.

Certainly something called "World of Warships" will live on. It will not, however, be the wonderful game we knew prior to the CV rework that did immense harm to the game. I imagine subs will be the same. Already many players I know are planning to curtail their play once subs go live in Randoms. 

[bEtHeNs]

6 minutos antes, SodaBubbles dijo:

It won't be the end of days. Toxic griefer mechanics like CVs and subs are aimed at a specific personality type that is very common in the gaming world, the kind of person who likes crapping on others at little risk to themselves. They dont much like thinking either. Such individuals degrade any social situation they are in, not just games.

Certainly something called "World of Warships" will live on. It will not, however, be the wonderful game we knew prior to the CV rework that did immense harm to the game. I imagine subs will be the same. Already many players I know are planning to curtail their play once subs go live in Randoms. 

I know what toxic means in other contexts aswell. 

All major changes in games create a situation in which many people will like it and many will not. 

This is not why I was asking. 

[MementoMori_6030]

"Roughly speaking, we're aiming at a 4-8% popularity at Tier X."

 

This should be easy to achieve. If enough players quit the game or refuse to play tiers where submarines could occur, the relative popularity of submarines at tier 10 will increase far beyond a single digit percentage. 

[arttuperkunas]

10 hours ago, Procrastes said:

The expression "gaslighting" stems from the title of the Hitchcock movie "Gaslight", where a nefarious husband manipulates the indoor gaslights to make his wife believe that she is going crazy. It has since been a widely used term for the malignant practice of trying to make someone believe that they are going crazy, through any means - not just gaslights. It can be done in order to break someone's will, to dominate them and take control over their lives.

 

Assuming this was not just a rhetorical question. If it was, sorry for the bother!

It was a reference to the stuff I quoted, which imo fulfilled the definition of gaslighting.

[WeGreedy]

WG: Do you like submarines?

Playerbase: No!

WG: Rented Submarines in Random Battles 0.10.9

 

(Also WG, 2015: There will be no subs ever in World of Warships.)

[King_Of_The_Potatoes]

Well it's plain to see nothing at WG is changing I was willing to give them a chance even came back for the last few weeks but safe to say time for a break again. Thank god I got a massively modded version of Skyrim to start again so time to strap my armour back on and leave this stinking port behind. 

[Shaka_D]

9 hours ago, SodaBubbles said:

Because they are fun only for the person playing them, not for the person being targeted by them. Any one-sided mechanic whose purpose is only to cause harm to others, is by definition a toxic griefer mechanic.

You realise this can be said of all ship classes? Simply because many people might have a preference for playing only certain classes more than others It's all purely subjective is it not?

[Tanaka_15]

2 hours ago, WeGreedy said:

WG: Do you like submarines?

Playerbase: No!

WG: Rented Submarines in Random Battles 0.10.9

 

(Also WG, 2015: There will be no subs ever in World of Warships.)

And also WG we listen to your feedback. 

[Shaka_D]

8 hours ago, SodaBubbles said:

It won't be the end of days. Toxic griefer mechanics like CVs and subs are aimed at a specific personality type that is very common in the gaming world, the kind of person who likes crapping on others at little risk to themselves. They dont much like thinking either. Such individuals degrade any social situation they are in, not just games.

You have literally just described what I always thought was associated with people who favour predominantly playing BB's...particularly the parts I bolded above. See where the subjectivity comes in? We all have favourite classes, but none of us like anything that is a threat to our favourite class....for me in a dd it's cv's and radar ships, whereas for a bb player its subs and dd's...if you're a rock, you don't like paper, if you're scissors you don't like the rock....all perfectly reasonable.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

20 minutes ago, Shaka_D said:

You realise this can be said of all ship classes? Simply because many people might have a preference for playing only certain classes more than others It's all purely subjective is it not?

Nope.

[Yedwy]

13 hours ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

Maybe not in the "testing month" but as soon as subs hit randoms "for real" T6 will be the new T4, with subs taking the place of CVs... each and every potato in the game will flock to T6 submarines because they'll be "the new shiiiet" and "utterly OP, believe me, I saw it on U-tube"

 

So nah, T2 to T4 is the way to go...

You might be right, well in that case I ll dust off my Clubson (21pt oveckin will go there), Dugay (21pt Aubornau will go there), Isokase (some of the special SE commanders will go there), Orion (21pt Dunkirk I guess) and IDK maybe one of the new KM BCs with 21pt Lutiens, also Gangut and that IJN prem BC aint bad either (can’t remember the name off hand) and ofc some CVs for extra welcome effect… 

[WeGreedy]

47 minutes ago, Tanaka_15 said:

And also WG we listen to your feedback. 

And also WG: We won't sell >T8 Premiums directly.

[Carandraug]

37 minutes ago, Shaka_D said:

You have literally just described what I always thought was associated with people who favour predominantly playing BB's...particularly the parts I bolded above. See where the subjectivity comes in? We all have favourite classes, but none of us like anything that is a threat to our favourite class....for me in a dd it's cv's and radar ships, whereas for a bb player its subs and dd's...if you're a rock, you don't like paper, if you're scissors you don't like the rock....all perfectly reasonable.

Not really. In your analogy of rock / paper / scissors (which more or less describes the original balance of Wows) CVs are an atomic bomb. They don't have any natural predator or counterplay. Not even the other CV is that. They play virtually their own minigame disconnected from the logic, mechanics and flow of the game. 

 

And subs will be following in just the same footsteps. Toxic gameplay is the feeling you can't do anything against the opponent. With CVs it's more or less irrelevant what you do, because the dmg is based almost fully in the hands on the CV player and your countermeasures are just for giggles. With subs it will be the same, because homing ammunition in a PvP game is automatically the most stupid addition you can think of. Paired with guaranteed invisibility and immunity to damage you will have yet another class not fitting the original mold of the game.

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 11 Minuten, Yedwy sagte:

You might be right, well in that case I ll dust off my Clubson (21pt oveckin will go there), Dugay (21pt Aubornau will go there), Isokase (some of the special SE commanders will go there), Orion (21pt Dunkirk I guess) and IDK maybe one of the new KM BCs with 21pt Lutiens, also Gangut and that IJN prem BC aint bad either (can’t remember the name off hand) and ofc some CVs for extra welcome effect… 

T4 discord, anyone? ^^

[Hakssor]

41 minutes ago, Shaka_D said:

You have literally just described what I always thought was associated with people who favour predominantly playing BB's...particularly the parts I bolded above. See where the subjectivity comes in? We all have favourite classes, but none of us like anything that is a threat to our favourite class....for me in a dd it's cv's and radar ships, whereas for a bb player its subs and dd's...if you're a rock, you don't like paper, if you're scissors you don't like the rock....all perfectly reasonable.

You make no sense. CVs and subs are in perfect safety 90 % of the match. Rock-paper-scissors is for BBs-CAs-DDs, subs and CVs don't follow this rules. There is no class that counters them and they can attack without risking themselves.

[1MajorKoenig]

I was wondering - has there been any further info from WG on next steps about the removal of homing as of yet? 
 

[Capra76]

52 minutes ago, Shaka_D said:

You realise this can be said of all ship classes? Simply because many people might have a preference for playing only certain classes more than others It's all purely subjective is it not?

 

The surface ships all benefit each other one way or another, DD might be bad news for BB, but without DD there's no reason to play CA and thus without DD you'd have 12 v 12 BB games, which could become very boring very quickly, and similar logic applies to all other classes.

 

With aircraft carriers and submarines the logic doesn't apply, they're a parasite class that feeds off of the surface ships, they offer nothing back in return and the game would likely be better off without them for all classes.

[Tanaka_15]

52 minutes ago, Shaka_D said:

You have literally just described what I always thought was associated with people who favour predominantly playing BB's...particularly the parts I bolded above. See where the subjectivity comes in? We all have favourite classes, but none of us like anything that is a threat to our favourite class....for me in a dd it's cv's and radar ships, whereas for a bb player its subs and dd's...if you're a rock, you don't like paper, if you're scissors you don't like the rock....all perfectly reasonable.

You are wrong. You can easli punish dds for bad play in a BB, or punish a BB for very bad play in a CA. But there is no interaction beetween you and a CV and the same will be with subs. You can take DMG from them and this is your intaraction. Thats why CVs are so toxic, and why Subs will be also toxic. 

[PaP_Mentoles]

3 hours ago, WeGreedy said:

WG: Do you like submarines?

Playerbase: No!

WG: Rented Submarines in Random Battles 0.10.9

 

(Also WG, 2015: There will be no subs ever in World of Warships.)

 

1 hour ago, Tanaka_15 said:

And also WG we listen to your feedback. 

 

19 minutes ago, WeGreedy said:

And also WG: We won't sell >T8 Premiums directly.

 

WeeGreedy: Yeah yeah but we did say sorry, didn't we?

[Cammo1962]

1 hour ago, Europizza said:

Nope.

Short and sweet as always @Europizza 

[Shaka_D]

1 hour ago, Europizza said:

Nope.

Doesn't really help any point made, Euro. People hate subs, we all get it. At great risk of having a lot of people hate on me some more, I personally like having them in the game. We all need to learn to tolerate differences in opinion. I still think they need lots of tweaking, as do cv's, but the resistance in this forum is often unjustified and highly anecdotal.

 

A few examples of highly contestable additions to the game - which in my opinion at the time only served to ruin gameplay - was radar, rpf and the overpowered indefensible nature of cv's in the pre-rework state (though not fond of the current workings either) ...I loved playing dd's and these mechanics /aspects changed the game for me in a massive way. I've since come to learn different approaches to playing my ships and to play other classes more. The point is, what can we do about any of it other than to adapt or die trying, or to make good on our threats and leave the game?

 

A question I now have is, how many of these contentious mechanics and additions are really that harmful to gameplay if WG got the balance right? But to get the balance right, they have to be implemented because noone wants to play test servers forever when the live game is more rewarding? The point still remains that a lot of opinions here are just that, opinions, based on our own preferences within the game. Mine is I like the added variety afforded by subs, though they need more fixing, but i feel the exact same way about classes that other people here (who hates subs) enjoy playing. Just preference is all. There are some things that need looking at, but I cannot see that we need to negate an entire class just because it suffers similar, now accepted, previously contentious drawbacks offered by other classes.

 

I think this is all more about a more general mistrust in WG and their intentions. They have fallen from favour by a long way and players in the forum are naturally peeved off with them.

[Shaka_D]

1 hour ago, Tanaka_15 said:

You are wrong. You can easli punish dds for bad play in a BB, or punish a BB for very bad play in a CA. But there is no interaction beetween you and a CV and the same will be with subs. You can take DMG from them and this is your intaraction. Thats why CVs are so toxic, and why Subs will be also toxic. 

You've got a point here, but the irony is that many people love cv players on their own team when they seal that win in a game..or when they help them against an enemy ship...this is based on my own experience of course ,seeing it in more than numerous battles and even lately in ranked when sub players have been congratulated for helping someone out of a bad situation or subs saying thank you to others and it being acknowledged. So is it we only hate those subs and cv's that target us, but not when they're on our team and not when we ourselves play them?  There is a more than dedicated resistance to change going on here me thinks. Food for thought.