Submarine gameplay feels more like a game of chance than anything else

[bloodynicknames]

Got a T8 Sub out of a crate yesterday and took it to ranked and coop ... and oh boy, what an experience that has been.

In coop basically the bots are dead too fast for you to do anything meaningful, but ok, thats just coop who cares.

 

in ranked however I cant help but feel even more useless ... if torp hits or not really seems random. 

Skill doesnt matter in the least bit and at the end of a day its just a shooting gallery, ping, fire rinse and repeat and if you're lucky the target wont DC before the torps hit. 

that being said, I see the reason why they made the torpedos homing. they are so terrible that unless you just yolo into somebody its downright impossible to hit anything with them except the biggest of potatoes that just sits there and doesnt move. 

Sub vs. Sub combat is terrible for the least to say ... literally if you just fired torps all you can do is sit there impotently and hope your torps reload faster than your opponents. the silouette of the subs is so small that your best chance is to just go nose in cause theres a pretty good chance even with sonar pings the torps wont hit then. 

the biggest threat to Subs are ... wait for it, BBs ofc cause that makes total sense. a DD would be suicidal to go in for DCs unless theres no friendlies nearby. 

 

This whole thing just feels like some cobbled together ideas that JUST DONT WORK. 

The only place where I can see subs being even remotely interesting and fun is maybe in operations. 

I dont even wanna think about subs in the currently implementation of convoy, just sneak to the exit point and pick off targets one by one. 

 

You know, if you put something in the game that nobody wants at least make it an interesting and fun addition and not this clusterf*ck...back to the drawing Board WG. 

 

EDIT: just had a real FUN game in Atago in ranked...1 sub, 2 cruisers with no ASW and rest only BBs ... I bet the sub player must have jizzed in his pants with this kind of luck ... well thought out indeed

[SodaBubbles]

10 minutes ago, bloodynicknames said:

Skill doesnt matter in the least bit and at the end of a day its just a shooting gallery, ping, fire rinse and repeat and if you're lucky the target wont DC before the torps hit. 

that being said, I see the reason why they made the torpedos homing. they are so terrible that unless you just yolo into somebody its downright impossible to hit anything with them except the biggest of potatoes that just sits there and doesnt move. 

Haha. People get torped all the time, dodging them perfectly, only to find the homing torps curving back to nail them. 

Maybe you're doing something wrong. 

[bloodynicknames]

12 minutes ago, SodaBubbles said:

Haha. People get torped all the time, dodging them perfectly, only to find the homing torps curving back to nail them. 
 

oh please show me the video of those magically homing torpedos that circle back and hit ... oh, wait, you cant cause that doesnt happen. 

[Cyclops_]

26 minutes ago, bloodynicknames said:

Got a T8 Sub out of a crate yesterday and took it to ranked and coop ... and oh boy, what an experience that has been.

In coop basically the bots are dead too fast for you to do anything meaningful, but ok, thats just coop who cares.

 

in ranked however I cant help but feel even more useless ... if torp hits or not really seems random. 

Skill doesnt matter in the least bit and at the end of a day its just a shooting gallery, ping, fire rinse and repeat and if you're lucky the target wont DC before the torps hit. 

that being said, I see the reason why they made the torpedos homing. they are so terrible that unless you just yolo into somebody its downright impossible to hit anything with them except the biggest of potatoes that just sits there and doesnt move. 

Sub vs. Sub combat is terrible for the least to say ... literally if you just fired torps all you can do is sit there impotently and hope your torps reload faster than your opponents. the silouette of the subs is so small that your best chance is to just go nose in cause theres a pretty good chance even with sonar pings the torps wont hit then. 

the biggest threat to Subs are ... wait for it, BBs ofc cause that makes total sense. a DD would be suicidal to go in for DCs unless theres no friendlies nearby. 

 

This whole thing just feels like some cobbled together ideas that JUST DONT WORK. 

The only place where I can see subs being even remotely interesting and fun is maybe in operations. 

I dont even wanna think about subs in the currently implementation of convoy, just sneak to the exit point and pick off targets one by one. 

 

You know, if you put something in the game that nobody wants at least make it an interesting and fun addition and not this clusterf*ck...back to the drawing Board WG. 

 

EDIT: just had a real FUN game in Atago in ranked...1 sub, 2 cruisers with no ASW and rest only BBs ... I bet the sub player must have jizzed in his pants with this kind of luck ... well thought out indeed

Mmm, subs are totally OP, so you must be doing it wrong.

 

[bloodynicknames]

20 minutes ago, Cyclops_ said:

Mmm, subs are totally OP, so you must be doing it wrong.

 

oh wow, a single scoreboard where you did well ... clearly they are broken and need to be nerfed. 

aside from that you missed the point by a mile, but hey, good for you at least theres one ship you can perform well in 

[mantiscore]

it's trash

the only mode they would make sense is convoy, but WG is r*tarded and they shoved it in ranked instead, then introduced convoy mode without them lol

[Deckeru_Maiku]

2 hours ago, bloodynicknames said:

oh please show me the video of those magically homing torpedos that circle back and hit ... oh, wait, you cant cause that doesnt happen. 

They don't "circle back", but when fired left and right of a target which then gets doublepinged they can turn into it quite a but, making dodging rather difficult.

So...

yeah...

ltp maybe? Don't use DD torping tactics on a sub maybe?

[Cyclops_]

5 hours ago, bloodynicknames said:

oh wow, a single scoreboard where you did well ... clearly they are broken and need to be nerfed. 

aside from that you missed the point by a mile, but hey, good for you at least theres one ship you can perform well in 

And another 3  for you, i can go out and do some more if you want??

[Pikkozoikum]

6 minutes ago, Cyclops_ said:

And another 3  for you, i can go out and do some more if you want??

You can't do that with surface ships in comparison?

[Aethervoxx]

My observations on Submarine game play are  these;

Surface Movement: get as close as you can to wherever you decide to go (usually a cap) before you go to periscope depth.

Periscope Depth: get into your torp range &  then try to torp something either non-ping or with ping, in order, a BB, a C, a DD (& if at all possible a CV).

Sub Surface Depth(s): I still haven't figured this part out enough. This part of Sub operation is the most difficult & what is with this Sub vs Sub underwater torping?

I suspect Subs will be about as popular as CVs = not very. The good Sub players will do well (just like with reworked CVs) but most  average (or lower) players will likely quit playing them.

 

 

[Cyclops_]

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

You can't do that with surface ships in comparison?

Sorry, but not sure what you mean, as in all three battles I was in a Submarine ??

[Pikkozoikum]

11 minutes ago, Cyclops_ said:

Sorry, but not sure what you mean, as in all three battles I was in a Submarine ??

You show a few games, where you performed well in submarine. But that can happen with every ship, even with the worst ship

[Cyclops_]

11 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

You show a few games, where you performed well in submarine. But that can happen with every ship, even with the worst ship

Really, I am not the best player by any means, so I only played a few battles over a day or so in ranked with subs just to see how they played so as to counter them, so as far as I am concerned they are OP, simples.

[Pikkozoikum]

3 minutes ago, Cyclops_ said:

Really, I am not the best player by any means, so I only played a few battles over a day or so in ranked with subs just to see how they played so as to counter them, so as far as I am concerned they are OP, simples.

But they get heavily buffed. That wouldn't speak for "op" vessels. I played a lot submarines, and I don't think they are OP; rather that many people have no clue how to play against them and that makes it sometimes quite easy.

But then, sometimes it feels impossible to do anything, as soon as players are aware of submarines.

 

Also they are not very flexible, since they are slow and have low range. The inflexbility can costs battle influence

[RossijskijAxisFlot]

18 minuti fa, Pikkozoikum ha scritto:

But they get heavily buffed. That wouldn't speak for "op" vessels. I played a lot submarines, and I don't think they are OP; rather that many people have no clue how to play against them and that makes it sometimes quite easy.

But then, sometimes it feels impossible to do anything, as soon as players are aware of submarines.

 

Also they are not very flexible, since they are slow and have low range. The inflexbility can costs battle influence

Slow and low range ??? HAHAHAHAHA

They're faster than I am on my Bayern, U-69 has 9km torps... many DDs at that tier do not have that torpedo range, let alone torpedo speed.

"People have no clue how to play against them" then tell me what a BB player should do once his DCP is in cooldown... turn into the torps and slow down ? guess what... it doesn't work, and you know why ? because those are homing torpedos 

[MimosA_A]

From playing them and against them, they mostly are no fun at all from either side.

 

Whether or not you get to do something heavily depends on the enemy team. If they just hunt you from the moment you get spotted, you are pretty much relegated to running away until they forget about you.  As for playing against them, the torps are decently easy to dodge, and once they get spotted, blind dropping them is pretty easy.

 

They're boring to play and boring to play against. Overall I'd say if they want subs, they should take the whole thing back to the drawing board and figure out what they want their role to be, cause right now, it's a typical design-by-committee mess of random ideas that just doesn't deliver a fun or interesting experience for anyone.

[SodaBubbles]

11 hours ago, bloodynicknames said:

oh please show me the video of those magically homing torpedos that circle back and hit ... oh, wait, you cant cause that doesnt happen. 

I said CURVE which somehow became CIRCLE but thanks for playing. 

[SodaBubbles]

9 hours ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

They don't "circle back", but when fired left and right of a target which then gets doublepinged they can turn into it quite a but, making dodging rather difficult.

So...

yeah...

ltp maybe? Don't use DD torping tactics on a sub maybe?

The double pinging just sucks. 

 

It's the typical developer pattern in recent years, in which the mechanic is fun only for the people operating it, and the people attacking by it have no recourse. There is no way to stop someone from pinging you, and no way to stop them from re-pinging you. 

Thats seriously wrong. 

[Pikkozoikum]

15 hours ago, AxisMarine said:

Slow and low range ??? HAHAHAHAHA

They're faster than I am on my Bayern, U-69 has 9km torps...

So, if something is faster than Bayern, than it's considered as fast? I think, comparison and rating something works not like that.

Submarines are slow, they have speed like other slow ships (mostly BBs).

On low tier even more, when they submerge deeper, they get around 50% of their max speed.

 

 

On T10, submarines are on the lower end, especially surfaced. There is no cruiser or DD slower than the fastest submarine.

 

15 hours ago, AxisMarine said:

many DDs at that tier do not have that torpedo range, let alone torpedo speed.

So you compare now low ranges of DDs with the ranges of submarines? Does that mean, that submarines have 20km range like a BB? Do they have 15-17km like a cruiser? No, they have low range like DDs. Some DDs have also low range.

 

If you compare the weakest with the weak, than some "weak" ships might be better than the weakest. But they are still weak.

If you compare the lowest range with a vessel with low range, doesn't make the low range to "high range"

16 hours ago, AxisMarine said:

"People have no clue how to play against them" then tell me what a BB player should do once his DCP is in cooldown... turn into the torps and slow down ? guess what... it doesn't work, and you know why ? because those are homing torpedos 

 

 

What is considered in this example as high range and low range?

 

 

 

16 hours ago, AxisMarine said:

"People have no clue how to play against them" then tell me what a BB player should do once his DCP is in cooldown... turn into the torps and slow down ? guess what... it doesn't work, and you know why ? because those are homing torpedos 

But it works.. you don't need always DCP, dodging works. They don't home at close range, or the homing is weak, idk, but torpedos miss BB more often than a Cruiser or DD. That'S what I mean with, people often don't know all the mechanics

 

Look at all these homing torpedos, how they hit:

[Pikkozoikum]

On 9/26/2021 at 9:09 PM, AxisMarine said:

turn into the torps and slow down ? guess what... it doesn't work, and you know why ? because those are homing torpedos 

We got finally some new details about the homing

 

The range at which homing is switched off is 2.1 km for battleships, 1.2 km for aircraft carriers, 720 m for cruisers (360 in case of double sonar ping effect), and 240 m for destroyers and submarines (120 in case of double sonar ping effect).

[Yedwy]

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

We got finally some new details about the homing

 

The range at which homing is switched off is 2.1 km for battleships, 1.2 km for aircraft carriers, 720 m for cruisers (360 in case of double sonar ping effect), and 240 m for destroyers and submarines (120 in case of double sonar ping effect).

Riight CVs which never will be locked on due to the one minute long DCP and cruisers (esp capital cruisers) get the shaft once again...

[bEtHeNs]

En 26/9/2021 en 10:57, bloodynicknames dijo:

oh please show me the video of those magically homing torpedos that circle back and hit ... oh, wait, you cant cause that doesnt happen. 

JUST DODGE - Twitch

No circle back but .... . I think you are doing something wrong but it is normal if you play them for the first time-

I have been torping at will BBs in ranked from the surface ending first of my team. Just keep a safe distance you have to aim with the ping first, launch torps and then ping again so many times until the hit. You basically have to aim with the ping, this may be the luck/skill part, and also the positioning, if think you will do ok firing torps at ships crossing islands, that is not the way, they will home at the shores. They work much better in open waters or clear channels.

 

[Pikkozoikum]

11 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Riight CVs which never will be locked on due to the one minute long DCP and cruisers (esp capital cruisers) get the shaft once again...

It was about BBs, and submarines are supposed to fight cruisers and even DDs

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 20 Minuten, Yedwy sagte:

one minute long DCP

84 seconds, mate. Damage control mod is a must have. 

[bEtHeNs]

double post.