New Pan Asian Cruiser line(Good, bad, WTF WG)

[The_Chiv]

So WG has shown off its new Pan Asian cruiser line.

 

Without seeing the stats for these ships it is a bit hard to give a solid opinion on these ships but I think we have enough to give some thoughts on the subject.

 

GOOD: So cls with smoke. Yes this is good as cls tend to need some sort of defensive gimmick as they are literally large destroyers with a citadel and no where near the same agility and thus get one salvo'd pretty hard. The smoke is also Pan Asian which, as long as WG doesn't mess with it, will provide more then just self serving smoke and can be used for utility purposes and provide cover for the rest of the team on a flank. These cruisers also come with a torp reload booster which if you counted the amount of torps on the Jinan is 8x salvos of 5 torps or 40 total torps( jesus can we say Kitakami). Smoke plus American style dd guns gives it a ton of flexibility getting into optimum positions to engage the enemy while being mostly obscured and protected. As the guns are under the penalty threshold these ships can take the improved sap/HE skill for more damage. If the Jinan has similar stats to say the Austin then it could be one hell of a ship and in fact probably one of the strongest cls in the game.

 

BAD: No hydro, Much in the same way a dd sitting in smoke gives away where enemy dds should toss a wall of torps, so too will the Pan Asian Cl's The lack of hydro is going to make every use of smoke a bit of a gamble. The lack of any anti dd consumables means this ship's utility is more to the medium range support fire and is not ideal for antidd support. Like all CLs it has thin armor thus every bb will overmatch and delete you when given the chance.

 

WTF WG: While I do love new cruiser lines I am yet again disappointed in WG. The reality is these ships will most likely have something like 15km or less range base thus forcing t9 and t10 to take the range mod just to be useful and have any chance of contributing. This forces a pretty cookie cutter build similar to that of the Colbert due to the rather limiting available skill presented in the unified cruiser skill tree. Seriously WG you have 4 unique styles of cruiser trying to build from one skill tree. How is this any different then the previous version of the skill tree? Was the commander rework for every class but cruisers? I digress. Wg recently released a line of dds that can easily hunt and dominate these cruisers(SEE ELBING) This line already has ASW baked into it. This is even more telling that WG is pushing forward with subs in RANDOMS

 

It is hard to say how this line will really do. On one hand you have a t10 based on the Austin but with Pan Asian smoke and 2x the amount of torpedoes with a torp reload booster. On the other hand the torps are deep water which are useless against dds, No hydro thus unable to have any warning about the the torp soup that is rushing to their smoke banks, and  the fact that overmatch is a thing makes this a high risk medium reward ship. If however the torps on the Cruiser line are more akin to thier dd cousins in terms of range then we could possibly see the t10 having(using Austins values as a base) the potential of launching 4 salvos of 10x torps with a range of 13.5km. Using the Austin's other stats as a base and doing some messing around with the fitting tool what we could end up getting is either a nasty Super destroyer able to zone out the enemy with 40 torps with another 20 following 81 seconds after that(less if it took damage), A medium long(17.4km) artillery' fire support ship that can punish most ships trying to push in and be able to pull away leaving a nasty wall to further punish pushing if the flank fails, or something that makes the Smolensk look tame but has a glaring flaw.

 

All in all I will say this is a wait and see sort of deal. While I can see some massive potential and disruption caused by this line, I also see some of the same issue that have plagued this sub class of ships for a long time and even some massive and glaring weaknesses in its defense gimmick. I like the mass torp zone denial concept and frankly I would not be surprised if WG introduced this line with that in mind so that when they put the Kitakami back in the game and go to sell it they will make bank.

 

 

[Khaba_Gandalf]

Don't you think it's a bit early to talk about a line, when we

 

a) haven't seen stats yet. I mean let's take the T10 ship: What's the range, what is the reload/dpm compared to an Austin and what kind of DWT does she have? Are those YY DWTs or not?

b) WG nowadays tends to change stats between them being announced and them hitting the live server for the first time...

c) just because they didn't mention Hydro yet, doesn't mean they don't have it. Unless WG explicitly stated during the stream that they don't have it.  

[Hugh_Ruka]

well it is actually the first cruiser line other than RN CLs that got my interest .... pity they will kill the game with other things before these get released ....

[The_Chiv]

2 hours ago, Khaba_Gandalf said:

Don't you think it's a bit early to talk about a line, when we

 

a) haven't seen stats yet. I mean let's take the T10 ship: What's the range, what is the reload/dpm compared to an Austin and what kind of DWT does she have? Are those YY DWTs or not?

b) WG nowadays tends to change stats between them being announced and them hitting the live server for the first time...

c) just because they didn't mention Hydro yet, doesn't mean they don't have it. Unless WG explicitly stated during the stream that they don't have it.  

No I do not think it is bad to talk about this before any stats come out.

 

1. traditionally when WG makes a different nation variant of something some stats do tend to stay the same and or be relatively close. If you look at the Nurnberg and the Makarov you will see a plethora of similarities. Where they differ is in range and in amount of torps. Outside of that concealment, maneuverability are the same. Murmansk and Marblehead also have similarities with biggest difference being torp range and speed.
2. Wg already stated it would be fast firing. We know it wont be as fast as the Austin which could get down to like 1 second with booster but if it is anywhere near 4 seconds or less it will be pretty powerful.
3. Yes wg doest tend to change stats but when talking about analogs of another already existing ship those changes tend to be very minor.
4. This is true originally the German Heavy DD didnt have smoke. After testing it got smoke.

Now as for why I think it is a god idea to talk about the ship is because at the end of the day we are the ones who have to play them and while I am not happy with WG gambling addiction I still love the game and am always hyped for any new cruiser line...Even if WG over nerfs them do to a former cc video that he later said yeah that was a mistake.

[OldSchoolFrankie]

"That's the shipline we need in the game!", nobody ever.

 

We monitor your Fedback!

 

HAHAHA!

[The_Chiv]

1 minute ago, OldSchoolFrankie said:

"That's the shipline we need in the game!", nobody ever.

 

We monitor your Fedback!

 

HAHAHA!

Yep... We need more HE spam boats and just for the laughs we are gonna give it some shades of kitakami cause who needs to push?

[totally_potato]

4 hours ago, The_Chiv said:

BAD: No hydro

I mean apart from Italy, I can't think of any other nation of cruisers that don't have hydro available. 

So its such a common thing that WG maybe didn't mention it and they do have hydro

Don't just formulate an opinion without getting the full picture. 

 

And consumables can be changed in testing

These are test ships with no stats or gameplay shown yet, these aren't released

[lovelacebeer]

Lets wait and see, not only have stats not been published but they have yet to go through testing. 

 

From what little information we have been given they seem at least provisionally interesting but it’s way too early to speculate.

[The_Chiv]

53 minutes ago, totally_potato said:

I mean apart from Italy, I can't think of any other nation of cruisers that don't have hydro available. 

So its such a common thing that WG maybe didn't mention it and they do have hydro

Don't just formulate an opinion without getting the full picture. 

 

And consumables can be changed in testing

These are test ships with no stats or gameplay shown yet, these aren't released

Sir. I KNOW. I have been playing this game since alpha.

 

 

I have been around long enough to know how WG works. I highly doubt they would change how they balance now. I mean jesus we all saw how the Elbing went from trash to rather usable over the course of several balancing iterations before release.

 

You seemed to focus on one tangent. Lack of HYDRO. Hate to break this to you but consumables are part of the balancing of a ship. Just because most do does not make this a guarantee. And while many ships do have swappable consumables like DFFAA to hydro or fighter to Hydro this does not mean all will. As you pointed out the Italians do not. Does this mean WG will do the same to the the PA CL line? Who knows. There are currently 4 PA crusiers in the game. One is t1 so we can ignore it. The rest are t6 and 2 tier 8s. One of those tier 8's does not have hydro or any ways to get hydro. Even though it is based on a ship that did have the ability to have hydro. Wg will balance as they feel the need for it. To assume based on the grounds you have given is just folly.

 

Now again I know these are test ships I know they are not final. And if you actually bothered to read the entire post rather then throwing a hissy and try to shipsplain to me how WG works you would have read the following.

 

Quote

All in all I will say this is a wait and see sort of deal.

I have not formed any opinion based on what I have seen. I see potential and some glaring issues. Which is what I have stated. I have not said "This ship will be amazing" or "This ship is a dumpster fire" Those would be examples of forming an opinion. 

[The_Chiv]

41 minutes ago, lovelacebeer said:

Lets wait and see, not only have stats not been published but they have yet to go through testing. 

 

From what little information we have been given they seem at least provisionally interesting but it’s way too early to speculate.

Quote

All in all I will say this is a wait and see sort of deal.

Pretty sure I already covered that at the end.

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

 

 

So im just wondering what range they will give the new Smolensk line? Is this the implementation of long range Smolensk back into the game? And torpedo reload booster? So the T10 Jinan has 4 racks of 5 DW torps on a booster? So every other minute it spews out 40 DW torps......... Okeeeeey. Seems legit.

 

Powerful AA.

 

BB players will also enjoy Russian CVs and soon subs. GG!

[lovelacebeer]

8 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

Pretty sure I already covered that at the end.

 

Apologies I wasn’t aware that agreeing with you was so offensive to you I will make sure not to interact with you in the future then to avoid further offence. 

[The_Chiv]

Just now, lovelacebeer said:

 

Apologies I wasn’t aware that agreeing with you was so offensive to you I will make sure not to interact with you in the future then to avoid further offence. 

Nah you are good bro just some people seem to scan, focus on one point, then try to shipsplain in a rather patronizing way that just makes me want to slap them in reality. Sadly I responded to you after I responded to one of them. My apologies. 

[totally_potato]

3 hours ago, The_Chiv said:

You seemed to focus on one tangent. Lack of HYDRO. Hate to break this to you but consumables are part of the balancing of a ship. Just because most do does not make this a guarantee. And while many ships do have swappable consumables like DFFAA to hydro or fighter to Hydro this does not mean all will. As you pointed out the Italians do not. Does this mean WG will do the same to the the PA CL line? Who knows. There are currently 4 PA crusiers in the game. One is t1 so we can ignore it. The rest are t6 and 2 tier 8s. One of those tier 8's does not have hydro or any ways to get hydro. Even though it is based on a ship that did have the ability to have hydro. Wg will balance as they feel the need for it. To assume based on the grounds you have given is just folly.

I am just saying that hydro is pretty much a common factor of 90% of the cruisers, so its not unreasonable to assume that they do have hydro. 

However if they don't then an issue arises, but WG can change that with their all magical spreadsheet, so all we can do is wait for the stats

[The_Chiv]

5 minutes ago, totally_potato said:

I am just saying that hydro is pretty much a common factor of 90% of the cruisers, so its not unreasonable to assume that they do have hydro. 

However if they don't then an issue arises, but WG can change that with their all magical spreadsheet, so all we can do is wait for the stats

Their is a saying about assumptions. As for if they dont an issue arise I think you are again failing to understand the concept of balance. Austin is a steel premium. Historically Steel ships have always had some pretty big advantages over similar ships of the same tier. Atlanta vs Flint would be an prime example of this. As such even my use of the Austin's stats to get a snapshot of what could be for the Jinan is a bit flawed. I find it highly unlikely that WG would release a HE CL line with smoke without there being some massive tradeoffs. Because of that any assumption at this time would be a bit foolish. 

[Capra76]

4 hours ago, lovelacebeer said:

Lets wait and see, not only have stats not been published but they have yet to go through testing.

 

I'm not sure, the ships are Dido class at T6 then Atlanta derivatives onwards, most of the components are already in game, so I think we can make some reasonable guesses:

• guns are RN 5.25" plus USN 5"/38 and 5"/54, from KGV (and other) plus USN DD and I think Midway;
• gun range determined by the ballistics, being largely ineffective beyond 10 - 12 km;
• torpedoes, presumably RN Mk IX from Leander plus USN Mk 15/16;
• speed, probably 32 - 33 knots, handling presumably good by cruiser standards;
• concealment and AA at the top of the class;
• armour and HP at the bottom of the class;

apart from the rate of fire on the guns I can't see much that they can balance with.

 

[KillStealBoss]

You sure they don't have hydro? That would be dumb if they didn't have it. 

[The_Chiv]

1 hour ago, MacArthur92 said:

You sure they don't have hydro? That would be dumb if they didn't have it. 

It would be yes as they are ASW spec and smoke camping, but at the same time I can see WG doing something like this for the sake of the almighty spreadsheet.

[arttuperkunas]

Asw spec.

 

Almost like wg is creating a problem (subs) then selling us a solution. Almost like we predicted this.

 

naa just coincidence.

[Nibenay78]

16 hours ago, The_Chiv said:

So WG has shown off its new Pan Asian cruiser line.

....

 

But you ARE going to buy the lootcrates that has a 0.00001% chance to drop the special pan asian cruiser module that makes them OP? 

[lovelacebeer]

7 hours ago, Capra76 said:

 

I'm not sure, the ships are Dido class at T6 then Atlanta derivatives onwards, most of the components are already in game, so I think we can make some reasonable guesses:

• guns are RN 5.25" plus USN 5"/38 and 5"/54, from KGV (and other) plus USN DD and I think Midway;
• gun range determined by the ballistics, being largely ineffective beyond 10 - 12 km;
• torpedoes, presumably RN Mk IX from Leander plus USN Mk 15/16;
• speed, probably 32 - 33 knots, handling presumably good by cruiser standards;
• concealment and AA at the top of the class;
• armour and HP at the bottom of the class;

apart from the rate of fire on the guns I can't see much that they can balance with.

 

 

It will be interesting to see what route WG do go down, looking at the Huanghe precedent they will probably keep the rough gun ballistics but I never put it past WG to do their own thing. 

 

Your almost certainly right they will give the Dido 5.25” because although the class actually got all kinds of calibre due to wartime shortages thankfully WG isn’t constrained by such shortages. 

 

I will be curious to see what torps they get whether it’s deep water or standard. 

[arttuperkunas]

2 minutes ago, lovelacebeer said:

 

It will be interesting to see what route WG do go down, looking at the Huanghe they will probably keep the rough gun ballistics but I never put it past WG to do their own thing. 

 

Your almost certainly right they will give the Dido 5.25” because although the class actually got all kinds of calibre due to wartime shortages thankfully WG isn’t constrained by such shortages. 

 

I will be curious to see what torps they get whether it’s deep water or standard. 

I would be very surprised if it wasn't DWT, given that that is the pan-Asian gimmick, and that Irian and Wukong have DWTs.

[anonym_cwVecOS6ecVy]

They also have good ASW. Good powercreep. Remember when they said RN cruisers do not get HE on top of smoke because...  Those times are long gone.

[Khaba_Gandalf]

Vor 2 Stunden, lovelacebeer sagte:

 

It will be interesting to see what route WG do go down, looking at the Huanghe precedent they will probably keep the rough gun ballistics but I never put it past WG to do their own thing. 

 

Your almost certainly right they will give the Dido 5.25” because although the class actually got all kinds of calibre due to wartime shortages thankfully WG isn’t constrained by such shortages. 

 

I will be curious to see what torps they get whether it’s deep water or standard. 

dev Blog says DWT...

 

The ships of the new branch are distinguished by their small-caliber guns, high rate of fire, and powerful deep-water torpedoes, but rather low survivability

[Capra76]

4 hours ago, lovelacebeer said:

Your almost certainly right they will give the Dido 5.25” because although the class actually got all kinds of calibre due to wartime shortages thankfully WG isn’t constrained by such shortages. 

 

Those are definitely 5.25" guns in the artwork and I think only Scylla and Charybdis got the 4.5" guns, although some of the ships only ended up with 4 x 5.25" turrets due to shortages and the AA armament was whatever was available.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see one of the 4.5" ships appear as a RN premium as that would tie in well with the DD line.