Torpedo Damage Hello ?

[Malim0o]

So let's recap about torp's damage :

 

DD's mid section -> 100% dmg except for the french dd ?

On BB and CA -> torp dmg * (1-torpedo belt) + splash dmg

(and in theory you cant saturated the CA/BB mid section, you sunk the ship before that happen)

 

Some tests

 

Perth (torp dmg 15433)

Spoiler

 

-Elbing -> 14335/15433 = 92.9% of the max dmg in the mid section ; why ?

 

-Hindenburg -> 12716/15433 = 82.4% of the max dmg in the mid section 

But 15433*0.87= 13 427 ....+ Splash dmg  .  So hinden have now 18% torpedo belt ? And no splash dmg ?

 

-Montana -> 9320/15433 = 60.4% of the max dmg in the mid section .

But 15433*0.63= 9722.8 ...+ Splash dmg. So monty have now 40% torpedo belt ? And no splash dmg ?

 

 

 

Haida (torp dmg 16767)

Spoiler

 

-Halland -> 15655/16767 = 93.4% of the max dmg in the mid section ; why ?

 

-Nevsky -> 12946/16767 = 77.2% of the max dmg in the mid section 

But 16767*0.81= 13 581 ....+ Splash dmg  .  So Nevsky have now 23% torpedo belt ? And no splash dmg ?

 

-Yamato -> 7403/16767 = 44% of the max dmg in the mid section .

But 16767*0.56= 7545...+ Splash dmg. So Yamato have now 56% torpedo belt ? And no splash dmg ?

 

 

 

Mutsu (torp dmg 10833)

Spoiler

 

-Shima -> 9893/10833 = 91.3% of the max dmg in the mid section ; why ?

 

-Worcester -> 8169/10833 = 75.4% of the max dmg in the mid section 

But 10833*0.81= 8775 ....+ Splash dmg  .  So Worcester have now 25% torpedo belt ? And no splash dmg ?

 

-GK -> 7563/10833 = 69.8% of the max dmg in the mid section .

But 10833*0.75= 8125...+ Splash dmg. So GK have now 30% torpedo belt ? And no splash dmg ?

 

 

 

Ofc i have make more test ( a lot ) and it's always the same , weird Dmg

 

Clearly i dont understand current damage torp.

I miss something ,  some hidden feature or a bug ?

 

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

A torpedo causes 1/6 damage to the part it hits and 1/6 to the hull. Additional damage comes from the splash zone.  EDIT: The part we see in game is already the calculated damage.
Give me a moment to look this up, could be tomorrow.

[Malim0o]

We already see the 33% torp dmg in game atm right ?

 

In gamemodels3d we can see alpha torp .

 

For exemple for shima it's:

-58700 type 93

-66800 type93 mod3

-59600 F3

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

39 minutes ago, Malim0o said:

We already see the 33% torp dmg in game atm right ?

 

In gamemodels3d we can see alpha torp .

 

For exemple for shima it's:

-58700 type 93

-66800 type93 mod3

-59600 F3

Indeed, that was my bad. I found the following topic:
https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/85475-torpedo-damage-and-you/

 

Perth: 43,000 alpha damage, which does 14333,33 damage. The value in port is alpha damage / 3 + splash damage, so 14333,33 + 1100 = 15433,33. You deal 14335 damage. I think the splash damage is not visible, since splash damage (same as HE shells) damages modules?

 

I don't know where the 2 HP is coming from. I do not understand the reasoning of the author in the link I posted regarding this. I will run a test with HE shells tomorrow to see if the blast radius is added to depicted damage number when the blast radius is hitting a turret, since WG linked turret HP to ship pools a few patches ago.

[Malim0o]

Il y a 8 heures, LemonadeWarriorITA a dit :

Indeed, that was my bad. I found the following topic:
https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/85475-torpedo-damage-and-you/

 

Perth: 43,000 alpha damage, which does 14333,33 damage. The value in port is alpha damage / 3 + splash damage, so 14333,33 + 1100 = 15433,33. You deal 14335 damage. I think the splash damage is not visible, since splash damage (same as HE shells) damages modules?

Okay sound like that.

So no splash on dd (section or hull) ?

And some splash dmg on BB/CA ?

 

Perth alpha torp dmg -> 14333.

Monty dmg in the mid section -> 14333.33*0.63= 9030 + 290 splash dmg ?

And for hinden it's 14333.33*0.81= 12470 + 246 splash dmg ?

 

But thanks i think we are close to the truth

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

Calculations for the other ships:

 

Perth (43000/3 = 14333 1/3 damage per torpedo + 1100 splash damage)

Elbing: 14333 vs 14335 Difference of: 2
Hindenburg: 14333,33... *(1-0,13) = 12470 vs 12716 Difference of: 246
Montana: 14333,33...*(1-0,44) = 8026,6666 vs 9320 Difference of: 1293

 

Haida (47000/3 = 15666 2/3 damage per torpedo + 1100 splash damage)

Halland: 15666,66... vs 15655 Difference of: -12 HP

Nevsky: 15666,66... * (1-0,19) = 12690 vs 12946 Difference of: 256

Yamato: 15666,66...* (1-0,55) = 7050 vs 7403 Difference of: 353

 

Mutsu (29800/3 = 9933 1/3 damage per torpedo + 900 splash damage)

Shimakaze: 9933,33 vs 9893 Difference of: -40

Wooster: 9933,33... * (1-0,19) = 8046 vs 8169 Difference of: 123
GK: 9933,33... * (1-0,25) = 7450 vs 7563 Difference of: 113

 

I do not understand why the damage on the midsection of a destroyer is <100%

At first I thought the extra amount of damage came from splash damage, but afaik only the turrets are linked to ship HP pool. However splash damage shouldn't damage turrets with an armour thickness of 76mm and above. So I think it is not the splash damage, but I still do not understand the author of the other article.

 

31 minutes ago, Malim0o said:

Okay sound like that.

So no splash on dd (section or hull) ?

And some splash dmg on BB/CA ?

 

Perth alpha torp dmg -> 14333.

Monty dmg in the mid section -> 14333.33*0.63= 9030 + 290 splash dmg ?

And for hinden it's 14333.33*0.81= 12470 + 246 splash dmg ?

 

But thanks i think we are close to the truth

See above

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

Okay, ran some Haida tests:
Against Shimakaze mid section it reliably does 15655 damage.
Against Yamato 12 torpedoes caused 7403 every time. He didn't Repair / DCP.  I actually expected to saturate the midsection (72900?), but even after that my torpedoes kept dealing the same amount of damage? I think I am doing something wrong....

 

Also the result screen doesn’t match…

[Malim0o]

Il y a 1 heure, LemonadeWarriorITA a dit :

Okay, ran some Haida tests:
Against Shimakaze mid section it reliably does 15655 damage.
Against Yamato 12 torpedoes caused 7403 every time. He didn't Repair / DCP.  I actually expected to saturate the midsection (72900?), but even after that my torpedoes kept dealing the same amount of damage? I think I am doing something wrong....

If i have right , midsection(citadel)/hull have the same hp pool or more as the ship.

So you cant saturated the mid section.

 

Ref: how it's works, hit points

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

2 minutes ago, Malim0o said:

If i have right , midsection(citadel)/hull have the same hp pool as the ship.

So you cant saturated the mid section.

I think it is because torpedoes who hit the mid section do damage to the citadel. So to deplete the HP of the hull I need to hit the bow. Need to see if it is possible to do this before I deplete the overall HP pool.

[Pikkozoikum]

11 hours ago, LemonadeWarriorITA said:

I think the splash damage is not visible, since splash damage (same as HE shells) damages modules?

I think torpedo splash damage damages other sections, otherwise it would make no sense to include it into the damage calculation in the port

 

It's like I would have a 19k AP shell and I say now 12k is Alpha and 7k is splash damage. I do 19k damage, but actually 12k, because 7k is splash damage. ^^

So I think splash damage for torpedos is different

 

---

Damage

Every torpedo has 2 types of damage, splash and alpha. The listed damage in the port is calculated with "alpha / 3 + splash". Splash can also hurt the neighboring sector such as superstructure, casemate and so on.

1. Torpedo hits into bow/stern -- deals 16.5% of alpha and splash damage to "entire hull" and "bow/stern" respectively.
2. Torpedo hits into citadel -- reduced damage. Coefficient can be found here. Alpha damage of torpedo is multiplied by a value on the table. Torpedo Protection also decreases the chance of flooding.
3. Torpedo hits the mid-section of a destroyer -- reduced damage. 33% of alpha damage.

After Update 0.7.11, a torpedo hitting a ship in any such part will cause guaranteed damage of 10% of the maximum damage it could potentially cause.

 

 

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Torpedoes

 

---

 

edit: I think only 2. is kinda wrong, because it talks about the coefficient like it's the torpedo protection, but i think that's only the flooding coefficient, not the torpedo protection itself

 

12 hours ago, Malim0o said:

DD's mid section -> 100% dmg except for the french dd ?

DDs have 33% reduced alpha damage by receiving a hit on the mid section(not splash dmg)

 

In your test, you mostly do around ~90% to DDs, I assume, that the Alpha damage is reduced by 33% and the splash damage applied by 100%.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Malim0o]

With gamemodels3d we can calculate max splash dmg.

Torp dmg in game - Alpha torp dmg (gamemodels3d)/3  = max splash dmg ?

 

So for me dmg on dd are weird if we take that

[Malim0o]

Il y a 1 heure, LemonadeWarriorITA a dit :

I think it is because torpedoes who hit the mid section do damage to the citadel. So to deplete the HP of the hull I need to hit the bow. Need to see if it is possible to do this before I deplete the overall HP pool.

We can saturate the hull, i thought it was impossible ?

When you saturated a section you can deal only 10% max dmg + 16.5% max dmg in the hull

 

 

Edit: my bad yeah we can saturated the hull , but now you apply 10% max dmg when in some old day you could take no dmg in saturated section in a dd.

[Pikkozoikum]

2 minutes ago, Malim0o said:

With gamemodels3d we can calculate max splash dmg.

Torp dmg in game - Alpha torp dmg (gamemodels3d)/3  = max splash dmg ?

 

So for me dmg on dd are weird if we take that

I don't know gamemodels3d, but I'm also not sure, how the splash damage is applied, if it it's only one neighbouring sector or multiple. That may differ in the result of the caused damage in game

[Pikkozoikum]

1 minute ago, Malim0o said:

We can saturate the hull, i thought it was impossible ?

I think the citadel was the section with 300% HP, which can't be saturated

[Malim0o]

Il y a 4 minutes, Pikkozoikum a dit :

I think the citadel was the section with 300% HP, which can't be saturated

Yeah and with that you have a "virtual" hull.

In theory you can saturated a section and the hull (often in dd) but you take at least 10% max dmg

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

54 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I think torpedo splash damage damages other sections, otherwise it would make no sense to include it into the damage calculation in the port

 

It's like I would have a 19k AP shell and I say now 12k is Alpha and 7k is splash damage. I do 19k damage, but actually 12k, because 7k is splash damage. ^^

So I think splash damage for torpedos is different

 

---

Damage

Every torpedo has 2 types of damage, splash and alpha. The listed damage in the port is calculated with "alpha / 3 + splash". Splash can also hurt the neighboring sector such as superstructure, casemate and so on.

1. Torpedo hits into bow/stern -- deals 16.5% of alpha and splash damage to "entire hull" and "bow/stern" respectively.
2. Torpedo hits into citadel -- reduced damage. Coefficient can be found here. Alpha damage of torpedo is multiplied by a value on the table. Torpedo Protection also decreases the chance of flooding.
3. Torpedo hits the mid-section of a destroyer -- reduced damage. 33% of alpha damage.

After Update 0.7.11, a torpedo hitting a ship in any such part will cause guaranteed damage of 10% of the maximum damage it could potentially cause.

 

 

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Torpedoes

 

---

 

edit: I think only 2. is kinda wrong, because it talks about the coefficient like it's the torpedo protection, but i think that's only the flooding coefficient, not the torpedo protection itself

 

DDs have 33% reduced alpha damage by receiving a hit on the mid section(not splash dmg)

 

In your test, you mostly do around ~90% to DDs, I assume, that the Alpha damage is reduced by 33% and the splash damage applied by 100%.

DD's, like any other ship, have 67% reduced alpha damage, but no torpedo protection. As shown in the calculations, right? So why doesn't match the expected amount of damage the actual damage dealt with destroyers?

I will need to test whether the explosion area can damage the ship HP pool with HE shells.

[Pikkozoikum]

3 minutes ago, LemonadeWarriorITA said:

DD's, like any other ship, have 67% reduced alpha damage, but no torpedo protection. As shown in the calculations, right? So why doesn't match the expected amount of damage the actual damage dealt with destroyers?

I will need to test whether the explosion area can damage the ship HP pool with HE shells.

I think it's different.  Only DDs have an imaginary torpedo protection of 33%, while all other ships have a real torpedo protection.

 

The damage, that is caused to a DD will be 66,6% alpha damage on the mid section and 100% of splash damage to neighbouring section (superstructure, casemate)

 

At least that's what the wiki says... the calculation I have to check, didn't do that yet

 

[Pikkozoikum]

3 hours ago, LemonadeWarriorITA said:

Mutsu (29800/3 = 9933 1/3 damage per torpedo + 900 splash damage)

Shimakaze: 9933,33 vs 9893 Difference of: -40

I think, if it's 9993 alpha damage pre hit, then it will cause 6615 alpha damage (33% damage reduction against DDs on Alpha) to the mid section and ~3277 splash damage

 

But I also need to check your link, that's only my assumption so far by reading the wiki

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

8 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I think it's different.  Only DDs have an imaginary torpedo protection of 33%, while all other ships have a real torpedo protection.

 

The damage, that is caused to a DD will be 66,6% alpha damage on the mid section and 100% of splash damage to neighbouring section (superstructure, casemate)

 

At least that's what the wiki says... the calculation I have to check, didn't do that yet

 

If a Haida torp does 66,6% alpha damage to the mid section and 100% splash damage than that would be: 47000*(2/3) + 1100 = 32433,33

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

15 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I think, if it's 9993 alpha damage pre hit, then it will cause 6615 alpha damage (33% damage reduction against DDs on Alpha) to the mid section and ~3277 splash damage

 

But I also need to check your link, that's only my assumption so far by reading the wiki

Haida torpedo has a maximum of 1100 splash damage, unless you have a different source that shows splash damage?

[Pikkozoikum]

Just now, LemonadeWarriorITA said:

Haida torpedo has a maximum of 1100 splash damage, unless you have a different source that shows splash damage?

How you know the splash damage? Aside that, what if splash damage hits superstructure, casemate, bow and so on? Multiple section?

[Pikkozoikum]

8 minutes ago, LemonadeWarriorITA said:

Haida torpedo has a maximum of 1100 splash damage, unless you have a different source that shows splash damage?

I actually read it wrong, it does only 33% damage to dd's mid section

 

Damage

Every torpedo has 2 types of damage, splash and alpha. The listed damage in the port is calculated with "alpha / 3 + splash". Splash can also hurt the neighboring sector such as superstructure, casemate and so on.

1. Torpedo hits into bow/stern -- deals 16.5% of alpha and splash damage to "entire hull" and "bow/stern" respectively.
2. Torpedo hits into citadel -- reduced damage. Coefficient can be found here. Alpha damage of torpedo is multiplied by a value on the table. Torpedo Protection also decreases the chance of flooding.
3. Torpedo hits the mid-section of a destroyer -- reduced damage. 33% of alpha damage.

 

 

This describes, if you hits bow/stern, citadell or DD's midsection. It also says, that Splash can hit neighboring sections

[Malim0o]

Il y a 4 minutes, Pikkozoikum a dit :

I actually read it wrong, it does only 33% damage to dd's mid section

 

Damage

Every torpedo has 2 types of damage, splash and alpha. The listed damage in the port is calculated with "alpha / 3 + splash". Splash can also hurt the neighboring sector such as superstructure, casemate and so on.

1. Torpedo hits into bow/stern -- deals 16.5% of alpha and splash damage to "entire hull" and "bow/stern" respectively.
2. Torpedo hits into citadel -- reduced damage. Coefficient can be found here. Alpha damage of torpedo is multiplied by a value on the table. Torpedo Protection also decreases the chance of flooding.
3. Torpedo hits the mid-section of a destroyer -- reduced damage. 33% of alpha damage.

 

 

This describes, if you hits bow/stern, citadell or DD's midsection. It also says, that Splash can hit neighboring sections

Yeah in game we see this 33% alpha dmg + splash dmg.

So dd take 100% torpedo dmg - splash dmg ?( in game value) in the mid section.

[Pikkozoikum]

33 minutes ago, Malim0o said:

Yeah in game we see this 33% alpha dmg.

So dd take 100% torpedo dmg( in game value) in the mid section.

In game we see = (Alpha damage / 3)  + splash damage

 

Did some tests with neptune.

In game value: 15533

Hits on midsection against Shima: 14434 and 14434 (two times exact same numbers)

Hit on Bow: 9787

Hit on Stern: 9205

 

Hit on midsection against Fuso (32%, flood coeff: 0.22): 9848

Hot on Bow: 10917

 

Hit on midsection against Des Moins (7%, flood coeff: 0.31): 13728

Hit on Bow: 9717

 

 

 

 

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

22 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

In game we see = (Alpha damage / 3)  + splash damage

 

Did some tests with neptune.

In game value: 15533

Hits on midsection against shima: 14434 and 14434 (two times exact same numbers)

Hit on Bow: 9787

Hit on Stern: 9205

With Haida on Neptune?
On gamemodels3d you can find torpedo information.