To WG/WoWS: The Elephant in the Room

[VDR1912]

Greetings. My first thread I believe. I am popping in just to give feedback that I feel is critical for the well being of our beloved game. I want to write about the Matchmaker, as it exists. I believe it is a vital part of the game and it is not functioning correctly. Random battles and even "Ranked" battles depend on it. I used to play world of tanks blitz and my win rate was less than 50%. After some time playing as I learned the game it improved. I realized that I could contribute to the outcome significantly. My win rate soared above the average players as I learned about positioning, aiming at weak parts while angling or hiding, ramming, relocating and so on. One gun, a few shots in a few seconds and good kill. MM did not matter and in fact its MM is better programmed I wager. Now in WoWS the above does not hold true. One ship does not matter as significantly except perhaps ships like Musashi or Radar cruisers or some CV. Please allow me to use points for ease of reading.

 

1. With a tier 8 CV I invite you to play a T9 / T10 game. Play Co-op if you wish since AA "skills" have little or no meaning. Versus higher level ships your planes will die and you will not be able to contribute. If you were doing naval battles and enter a high tier match as a CV you know you just auto lost the attempt. But it doesn't end there. Next matches can also pit you against ships 2 levels higher than your own.

 

2. "Ranked" battles. I do not believe there is any inadequacy anywhere to give a player the illusion that "ranked" is not just another  grind where you keep asking the matchmaker to give you:

                - Non AFK players.

                 -People who know how to play their ship, how to support the team, who know how to position and aim and are willing to learn if nothing else or even be in range to tank      for the team not hide behind islands.

But of course its all RNG

 

The MM is not programmed to make teams balanced by accounting for individual player statistics. Now I dont know why. And I dont care to be perfectly honest. I do know the developers and programmers have used pretty fancy formulas and stuff for things like dispersion and being an engineer I dont see why this can not be implemented.

So if I do not care then why I am posting this? Well I just want to inform the game owners and overseers that I am pretty fed up with the matchmaker. I am starting to spend more time on other games now. Because I care about WoWS and believe that it has the potential to overcome its shortcomings is the sole reason I am writing this post. I have talked with other players from my clan and on twitch and everyone (except trolls) believe the matchmaker to be a thorn in our sides. Why it feeds T8 ships to T10, none have a clue. Already there are imbalanced ships like Musashi and all the others you have stopped selling which give plenty of challenge to same tier ships even when they appear and they appear very often.Why there are so many blow outs and often we see the other team dies without managing to kill a few ships from the other team.

I recommend that you change this thing. Make the game fun by eliminating such elephants in the room. Program the matchmaker by taking into account player statistics like k/d ratio, main battery hit % win rate total number of matches played, there are so many ways.

Anything else? Tier 8 is notorious for those of us who just want to enjoy the game because so very often it means you get to fight T10s ships like Petro, Yamato, T10 CVs, gunboats, super ships. THIS in particular is the reason I have not bought Chkalov even though I want to try Soviet CVs (its also why i do not play my T8 german CV or other T8s). Chkalov especially will get deplaned very quick facing higher tier ships since the line features fragile aircraft.

[Bear__Necessities]

5 minutes ago, VDR1912 said:

Greetings. *Snip*

 

A) we already have a pinned thread for MM.

 

B) MM plus or minus 2 is fine. And when you are the lower tier you get a better exp output as a reward for your efforts.

 

C) You think being a T8 CV In a T9/10 game is unplayable?? lol but I'm glad it's turning you away from investing in more CV's as frankly less CV's in the queue the better.

 

D) I frankly don't want to be punished with stupidly long game wait times as that's what your suggestions would cause.

[Lootboxer]

16 minutes ago, VDR1912 said:

If you were doing naval battles and enter a high tier match as a CV you know you just auto lost the attempt. But it doesn't end there. 

You don't do damage focused naval battles in t8 CVs if you don't have skills to farm TX ships. Play TX CV. If it's xp edition it's better to be bottom tier as you earn more XP when attacking higher tiers.

 

Skill based MM would punish good players for being good and reward poor for being poor. Ultimately all would be going towards 50% wr.

 

Blame WG for growing hoards of clueless players and pushing them into endgame - TX.

If out of 24 sometimes only 3-4 can play and breath at the same time it's not MM fault.

Who has less s will win most of the time.

[ColonelPete]

7 hours ago, VDR1912 said:

Greetings. My first thread I believe. I am popping in just to give feedback that I feel is critical for the well being of our beloved game. I want to write about the Matchmaker, as it exists. ....

• WoT Blitz does not account for individual players statistics either - that is obviously not the problem
• WoT Blitz has smaller teams, giving you more impact
• there are enough CV players that can show you how to dominate Tier X battles with Tier VIII carriers, the ships are not the problem
• blowouts are not caused by ships
• K/D and main battery hit ratio are useless stats, using winrate for MM will make the metric of winrate useless

[Kiagy]

7 hours ago, VDR1912 said:

-People who know how to play their ship, how to support the team, who know how to position and aim and are willing to learn if nothing else or even be in range to tank      for the team not hide behind islands.

But of course its all RNG

This...

[ColonelPete]

2 hours ago, Kiagy said:

This...

That must be the reason we see so many bad players with 70% winrate in ranked...

[GarrusBrutus]

9 hours ago, VDR1912 said:

The MM is not programmed to make teams balanced by accounting for individual player statistics. Now I dont know why.

So players who are above average don't get shafted by continuous potato teams to "even the matchmaking". 

 

9 hours ago, VDR1912 said:

And I dont care to be perfectly honest.

Ofcourse you don't. Try to look at things from a different perspective for once. 

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

10 hours ago, VDR1912 said:

I used to play world of tanks blitz and my win rate was less than 50%. After some time playing as I learned the game it improved. I realized that I could contribute to the outcome significantly. My win rate soared above the average players as I learned about positioning, aiming at weak parts while angling or hiding, ramming, relocating and so on.

It is the same with this game, and tons of others.  Starting to know where you can find information about this game is important to grow in win rate, since you will be able to self-reflect. I will give you some sources to get you started. This way you can find out what is and what isn't RNG. 

 

www.wowsft.com Great for penetration values & looking at the statistics of a spec'd ship.

wiki.wargaming.net Great general information about the game.

youtube.com World of Warships How it Works serie is just amazing to get an understanding of game mechanics. 

twitch.tv Watch how others play.

Forum.worldofwarships.eu Is there something you don't understand, feel free to drop by and ask here. I asked a question yesterday and it turned out that I was the one who made the mistake. Hey, who cares, learning is a process where mistakes are bound to happen :)

 

Positioning is a different story. Just stay alive, keep those guns rocking, dodge enemy shells and play for the objectives :) Also big fan of TheSailingRobin, since he is an amazing non toxic player. You can look him up on YouTube.

[bloodynicknames]

19 hours ago, Bear__Necessities said:

 

A) we already have a pinned thread for MM.

 

B) MM plus or minus 2 is fine. And when you are the lower tier you get a better exp output as a reward for your efforts.

  

C) You think being a T8 CV In a T9/10 game is unplayable?? lol but I'm glad it's turning you away from investing in more CV's as frankly less CV's in the queue the better.

 

D) I frankly don't want to be punished with stupidly long game wait times as that's what your suggestions would cause.

A) thats just where your opinion goes to die and WG has an easier time ignoring what players think

B) not really, the power creep at T10 has made T8 a complete s**tshow, try playing any T8 DD vs. FDR for example

D) I want fun and not these completely onesided steamrolls that happen 8 out of 10 games these days. It's no fun to steamroll an entire team in 8min both on the winning and the losing end of things. 

but thats how WG wants it, a lot of fast games so you burn through more camos and flags you can then replenish for some arbitrary "currency" 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

I'm pretty sure at this point Lesta is the elephant in the room 

[bloodynicknames]

this guy was in my last T10 game....f*ck off ... 

[Bear__Necessities]

4 hours ago, bloodynicknames said:

not really, the power creep at T10 has made T8 a complete s**tshow, try playing any T8 DD vs. FDR for example

Yeah, ok. This is one of my NA accounts. As you can see, I'm "struggling" to play T8 DD's....

 

https://na.wows-numbers.com/player/1036458028,Vasili_One_Bonk_only/

 

I've also just ground through Hipper, a plain old T8 cruiser and did not struggle being up tiered. Yes, there were some painful lost games (see carry harder thread) but I was also able to get this bottom tier ship to punch above it's class even against T9/10's. Like below.

 

 

 

Some of us like a challenge. I also like getting more exp as a reward for doing well as a bottom tier ship. 

 

The biggest problem with MM isn't MM. It's the increasingly poor quality of the player base. And there is no fixing that. 

 

 

 

[Sunleader]

On 9/14/2021 at 12:02 AM, VDR1912 said:

Greetings. My first thread I believe. I am popping in just to give feedback that I feel is critical for the well being of our beloved game. I want to write about the Matchmaker, as it exists. I believe it is a vital part of the game and it is not functioning correctly. Random battles and even "Ranked" battles depend on it. I used to play world of tanks blitz and my win rate was less than 50%. After some time playing as I learned the game it improved. I realized that I could contribute to the outcome significantly. My win rate soared above the average players as I learned about positioning, aiming at weak parts while angling or hiding, ramming, relocating and so on. One gun, a few shots in a few seconds and good kill. MM did not matter and in fact its MM is better programmed I wager. Now in WoWS the above does not hold true. One ship does not matter as significantly except perhaps ships like Musashi or Radar cruisers or some CV. Please allow me to use points for ease of reading.

 

1. With a tier 8 CV I invite you to play a T9 / T10 game. Play Co-op if you wish since AA "skills" have little or no meaning. Versus higher level ships your planes will die and you will not be able to contribute. If you were doing naval battles and enter a high tier match as a CV you know you just auto lost the attempt. But it doesn't end there. Next matches can also pit you against ships 2 levels higher than your own.

 

2. "Ranked" battles. I do not believe there is any inadequacy anywhere to give a player the illusion that "ranked" is not just another  grind where you keep asking the matchmaker to give you:

                - Non AFK players.

                 -People who know how to play their ship, how to support the team, who know how to position and aim and are willing to learn if nothing else or even be in range to tank      for the team not hide behind islands.

But of course its all RNG

 

The MM is not programmed to make teams balanced by accounting for individual player statistics. Now I dont know why. And I dont care to be perfectly honest. I do know the developers and programmers have used pretty fancy formulas and stuff for things like dispersion and being an engineer I dont see why this can not be implemented.

So if I do not care then why I am posting this? Well I just want to inform the game owners and overseers that I am pretty fed up with the matchmaker. I am starting to spend more time on other games now. Because I care about WoWS and believe that it has the potential to overcome its shortcomings is the sole reason I am writing this post. I have talked with other players from my clan and on twitch and everyone (except trolls) believe the matchmaker to be a thorn in our sides. Why it feeds T8 ships to T10, none have a clue. Already there are imbalanced ships like Musashi and all the others you have stopped selling which give plenty of challenge to same tier ships even when they appear and they appear very often.Why there are so many blow outs and often we see the other team dies without managing to kill a few ships from the other team.

I recommend that you change this thing. Make the game fun by eliminating such elephants in the room. Program the matchmaker by taking into account player statistics like k/d ratio, main battery hit % win rate total number of matches played, there are so many ways.

Anything else? Tier 8 is notorious for those of us who just want to enjoy the game because so very often it means you get to fight T10s ships like Petro, Yamato, T10 CVs, gunboats, super ships. THIS in particular is the reason I have not bought Chkalov even though I want to try Soviet CVs (its also why i do not play my T8 german CV or other T8s). Chkalov especially will get deplaned very quick facing higher tier ships since the line features fragile aircraft.

 

 

A.

Its a reeeeeaaalllly Bad Time to Start a Post by Powdering WGs Ego.

Its nice you like the Game. Many of us do. But right now this kind of thing may cause the response you get being skewed by people taking offense as the Community is a insanely miffed at WG right now.

 

B.

This Topic will likely be Closed soon. Because Matchmaker Discussions are Prohibited in the Forums with the Exception for a Specific Topic.

So dont expect too much from this.

 

C.

WoT and especially Blitz is highly Simplified with alot less differences between vehicles and weapons. Therefore its not a good comparisson to WoWs which brings together Vehicles which are completely different from each other in pretty much everything.

Also. Your Personal Winrate is not that Consequential except in telling you how well you understand the Game. Because Good Players tend to actually Win. So whatever beef you got with the MM. Its obviously not preventing them from gaining a Winrate.

This doesnt mean there is no Problems of course. In fact I do think there is alot of Problems. But using an Individual Winrate just wont really make any Argument :)

 

 

D.

Now for your Actual Points.

 

1.

Doing that all the Time actually. And I got no Problems.

T8 CVs are very Powerful. And even T10 AA is Generally not really a threat unless you dont know how to Evade it.

Which is likely also the Problem here.

Its fairly Obvious that you are not a very well versed Player for the Game. Which is fine by the way. We all started somewhere.

However. CVs are unfortunately very easy to Play but very Hard to Master.

 

The thing is. Ships have 2 different Types of AA. One is DPS and the other is Flak.

Now Flak is extremely Powerful and Capable of Deleting Half or even All of your Squadron in but a Second if you take a Severe Hit. And especially in High Tiers Ships tend to have alot of it.

DPS meanwhile is for most Ships fairly Weak. Only being Dangerous if you are very close to Several Ships.

BUT

Flak is 100% Evadable. Meaning that while Flak is very Close. You can 100% entirely and Completely prevent it from doing anything.

While DPS cannot be Prevented or Dodged. Its a Set Damage you can only Mitigated by limiting the time you stay inside and using the Immunity Timers from your Drops. (You likely dont know what that is. I will explain it in a few advices later)

 

That unfortunately also causes most Newer Players to Run into Flak. And as they dont know what happens and thus dont know how to just prevent it. They think AA is very Powerful.

When in Fact AA is so Weak that T8 CVs can do Double Drops on almost every T10 Ship.

 

2.

Yep. It is.

Thats not News by the way.

Been that way from Day 1.

Will stay that way forever.

Thats the thing unfortunately. Ranked is only a smaller Random with better Rewards which you are forced to Grind to get Steel.

 

 

E.

Now then.

Unfortunately here I have to Disagree.

You see. The Problem with Matchmaking by Skill. Is that Skill becomes Irrelevant.

Because if you are Skilled. It will only mean that you get matched against other Skilled Players.

 

But against other Skilled Players only 1 can Prevail. So the other will be Ranked down etc.

In the end you will effectively end up with a Balancing that Punishes you for Playing Good. And Rewards you for Playing Bad.

Because the better you Play the harder it will get to get decent Results.

While if you just Play Bad all the Time you will then be able to Easily get Really Good Battles whenever you put some Effort into it.

 

That kind of System is unfortunately never going to work because it Destroys itself.

 

 

F.

Just like the Pampering up of WG above.

Threatening them as well will skew the response you get.

This time from the other Side of the Players which are defending WG usually :)

I generally Advice to not do this kind of thing at all.

It prevents an Objective take on your Points from most people.

 

 

 

 

G.

Ok.

Now for some Advice.

 

CVs are a Class that Rises and Falls by Understanding the Game.

And if you want to do good in it. You have to actually put in effort to learn why something is happening.

 

So some things you should know.

 

1.

You can Skip Post Drop Animations by pressing the Attack Button (usually left Mouse Button)

This allows you to go back to the Remaining Squadron instead of Watching your Drop.

 

By the way. Even if you dont Skip the Animation. You can Control your remaining Sqaudron using the WASD and thus already make them turn for example :)

 

2.

After you Drop your Bombs/Rockets/Torps etc. You will be Immune to Damage for the remaining time of the Animation.

For the Rockets you will be Immune once you started the Attack run and lose control of the Attack.

 

This is Importand because it allows you to avoid alot of Damage when Attacking against Targets with Strong Close Range AA. As you can use that timer to boost out of close range again.

 

3.

The Black Clouds are Death.

The Black Clouds are called Flak.

Flak is Spawned by the Game Calculating your Path and then Putting it where you would be in a few Seconds. And to the Flanks of that Position.

And Flak Hurts. Unlike DPS which will usually need several seconds to just Kill 1 Plane. Flak can Instantly Kill 3-5 of your Planes with a Single Hit. And if you get by a Barrage your Squadron might even be gone entirely in an instant.

 

Now. Flak of course. Is Spawned based on a Calculation of your Future Position. And in an preset Interval. So if you know that. You can actually Evade the Flak.

For Beginners the easiest way is to just Not fly into the Black Clouds. The Black Clouds are where Flak Spawned. And if you are heading to a Target without Steering alot. The Next Barrage will be in the same places.

So if you short before the Black Clouds turn to the Side and fly around them. You will for most part not be Hit by Flak.

 

Now for more Advanced Players. You can also Play with the Throttle. Flak is Spawned after a preset time and for a preset time. So as long as you pass the location of flak outside of that time. You wont be hit.

So if you Slow down causing flak to spawn closer to you for the next interval. And then boost past that position before that interval hits. You wont be hit as the Flak will Spawn behind you.

This however does require some practice because you need to get a feel for the timing.

 

And finally. If your an Advanced Player this also allows you to Manipulate where Flak Spawns in the First Place. By for example Flying slightly Diagonal to the Target. Flak will Spawn in that Diagonal Path. Which means you can then wait for the Flak to Spawn and before hitting it. Turn towards the Target to make your actual Approach. Thus avoiding the Flak by making it spawn outside your Path.

 

Pro Tip. Alot of Planes dont need to bother with Flak at all by the way. Torpedo Bombers for example can avoid Flak very easily by starting the Attack Run short before the Flak Wall. Thus diving below the Flak :)

 

4.

Map Awareness is King.

CVs Rise and Fall with the Players Awareness and Understanding of the Situation.

Choosing the Right Target at the Right Moment is very Importand.

Attacking the easiest target for attacking what gives you alot of damage is often not the best choice. Because while its nice to feel you do big Numbers.

You its often not the target that is currently Winning the Game for the Enemy.

 

And many People misunderstand something here.

CVs are Overpowered. So People think Playing CVs means they should Win. And since they dont Win. CVs cant be Overpowered. But they Forget. Even if CVs are overpowered. CVs are also Overpowered :P

Sounds Logical ? Yeah. You see.

We got Mirrored Matchmaking. So if you have a CV. The enemy has a CV as well. And just like with MM by skill. If you put the same Overpowered Class on both sides. The Winrate becomes irrelevant. Because it will balance itself out.

Your CV is OP. But so is the Enemy CV. So if you Play Badly. Then even if your in an OP Ship. You will lose.

In Fact since you are responsible for a higher part of your Teams total Result than other Players. If you Play Badly you will lose more often than with other classes :)

Its like FPS Games with Limited Weapons. If a Newbe takes that Super OP weapon that each Team is only allowed to have Once. Than that Team will lose alot more. Because the Newbe is Blocking one of their most Powerful Weapons making it useless :)

 

 

 

Hope that Helps.

Greetz

[Sprockett]

well all i can say was that Last night I had an FDR decided that I was to be killed. I was in the Russiki T9 BB and there was nothing i could do nothing to stop the FDR basically kill me.

 - large HP pools and many planes

- being able to turn on a die

- ineffectual fighters

- no Counter play 

- TOXIC as crap for the GAME

It was a horrible toxic experience where I had NO counter play. I burnt through all my fighters for the loss of 3 of his planes, and the ship  shot down 19 more planes. It took him 4 different squadrons to kill me. even as i was just running north away from any objective. 

 

It was a really really toxic experience - nothing I could do. 

 

Watch Trenlass vids on saving his team from the CV cancer. 

 

FDRs are the most broken pieces of crap ships in this game.   

 

PLEASE stop playing this broken class of ship...

 

https://replayswows.com/replay/140457#stats

[Z4ys]

Am 14.9.2021 um 00:11, Bear__Necessities sagte:

 

A) we already have a pinned thread for MM.

 

B) MM plus or minus 2 is fine. And when you are the lower tier you get a better exp output as a reward for your efforts.

 

C) You think being a T8 CV In a T9/10 game is unplayable?? lol but I'm glad it's turning you away from investing in more CV's as frankly less CV's in the queue the better.

 

D) I frankly don't want to be punished with stupidly long game wait times as that's what your suggestions would cause.

Yeah its really fun and engaging to get matched into t10 while being the only t8 in your team vs one other t8 in the other team. And ofc you get positioned on the map vs the t10s.

 

That are the games i quit instantly because why i should waste my time on that.

 

I rather would wait 1-2mins than waste up to 20mins in such a shitty MM game.

 

The only reason that shitty MM exist is because to motivate you to play t10 but there you have all the 30% wr shima players that throw their ship in the first 30 seconds away.

[ColonelPete]

16 minutes ago, Z4ys said:

Yeah its really fun and engaging to get matched into t10 while being the only t8 in your team vs one other t8 in the other team. And ofc you get positioned on the map vs the t10s.

That does not happen. There are always at least 3 Tier VIII ships, when they are in a Tier X battle, unless someone makes a fail division with a Tier VII ship.

18 minutes ago, Z4ys said:

I rather would wait 1-2mins than waste up to 20mins in such a shitty MM game.

We are already waiting 1-2 minutes...

 

[Bear__Necessities]

2 hours ago, Z4ys said:

Yeah its really fun and engaging to get matched into t10 while being the only t8 in your team vs one other t8 in the other team. And ofc you get positioned on the map vs the t10s.

For me and others it is fun and a challenge. You don't get to say what's fun for everyone. 

 

2 hours ago, Z4ys said:

That are the games i quit instantly because why i should waste my time on that.

That's just scummy. You should be banned for that. 

 

2 hours ago, Z4ys said:

I rather would wait 1-2mins than waste up to 20mins in such a shitty MM game.

Good for you. I'd have to wait longer and I am not going to accept being punished because I learnt to get good. I suggest people like you stick to coop. 

[Redcap375]

Look chaps.

 

WG has no interest changing Match Making and it's all to do with shareholder spreadsheets.  That's it, done, nothing more to be said. 

 

Is MM fine? Most defo not, never has been, but it is what it is.

 

OP, going down the CV broken route is white noise in his forum. 

 

The rework made them stronger and better and we just gonna come to peace with that. It's increased WG revenue so they couldn't care less what states its in. Example is CBs where one of the first things to be restricted are CVs. 

 

And also many forum members, knowing how strong they would become, switch to playing them and to this day continue to farm tears in them. So you aren't gonna get balanced views from thoese guys (and you know who you are).

 

Most people wanna look after their own train sets and have their own interests at heart. 

 

As for ranked? Designed as a grind for you to part with xp, flags, ships and in the end... Money. 

 

You will get the same quilty of players at tier 5 [edited]you would teir 10. Like WG said, tiers and skill don't mean a thing. 

[Prophecy82]

On 9/14/2021 at 12:02 AM, VDR1912 said:

1. With a tier 8 CV I invite you to play a T9 / T10 game. Play Co-op if you wish since AA "skills" have little or no meaning. Versus higher level ships your planes will die and you will not be able to contribute. If you were doing naval battles and enter a high tier match as a CV you know you just auto lost the attempt. 

@El2aZeR Time to roll your meme! ;)

 

On 9/14/2021 at 12:02 AM, VDR1912 said:

 

Tier 8 is notorious for those of us who just want to enjoy the game because so very often it means you get to fight T10s ships like Petro, Yamato, T10 CVs, gunboats, super ships. THIS in particular is the reason I have not bought Chkalov even though I want to try Soviet CVs (its also why i do not play my T8 german CV or other T8s). Chkalov especially will get deplaned very quick facing higher tier ships since the line features fragile aircraft.

 

So do I get this right? 

You only enjoy the game when you can shi+ on Lowtier ships with a CV? 

[Lexxmac]

Hmmm whining about MM in a Cv ..... yeah right

[El2aZeR]

On 9/14/2021 at 12:02 AM, VDR1912 said:

With a tier 8 CV I invite you to play a T9 / T10 game. Play Co-op if you wish since AA "skills" have little or no meaning. Versus higher level ships your planes will die and you will not be able to contribute.

 

[bloodynicknames]

yeah, such fun the 2 tier spread:

FDR had a really hard time what with basically only me being a threat to his planes. such fun, much balans, need more of this for the "challenge"

this crap is broken and thats the way WG wants it cause it guarantees fast matches that are a sink for credits, camos and flags. 

but go ahead, put your head in sand and pretend everything is fine, after all, that approach totally doesnt encourage WG in their shady practices and poor design decisions. 

maybe you and colonel_pete could team, dance around a fire chanting "everything is fine, nothing is broken, move along now". 

[ColonelPete]

14 minutes ago, bloodynicknames said:

..

maybe you and colonel_pete could team, dance around a fire chanting "everything is fine, nothing is broken, move along now". 

Apart from the fact that I never said that.

But that happens when you only see what you want to see...

[bloodynicknames]

11 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Apart from the fact that I never said that.

But that happens when you only see what you want to see...

there he is, my favorite fanboi 

[ColonelPete]

4 minutes ago, bloodynicknames said:

there he is, my favorite fanboi 

And another one that likes to see stuff he makes up...