Can someone explain why i am detected here?

[Prophecy82]

I didnt fire any shot. 

I marked the approximate position of the red Zao on the Minimap. 

 

 

[arttuperkunas]

Proximity detected by the Balao?

[Prophecy82]

8 minutes ago, arttuperkunas said:

Proximity detected by the Balao?

 

Sub is at operating depth. Can it proxy spot there? 

I really have no clue how Sub spotting mechanics work.... they seem to be convoluted. 

 

IIRC proxy spotting has its unique symbol (triangle with exclamation mark).

 

[totally_potato]

1 hour ago, Prophecy82 said:

I didnt fire any shot. 

I marked the approximate position of the red Zao on the Minimap. 

 

 

you accidently farted?

[myry_1980]

You are at 1km distance from sub,2km is the distance that any ship can be spotted

[Prophecy82]

2 minutes ago, myry_1980 said:

You are at 1km distance from sub,2km is the distance that any ship can be spotted

So they just forgot to make this a proxy-spot symbol?

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

16 minutes ago, Prophecy82 said:

So they just forgot to make this a proxy-spot symbol?

Possibly an oversight, as subs are still being tested except not quite being tested or something becasue they changed the sub TST topic to a regular feedback thread like the carrier feedback thread since subs have been out of TST since a long time according to CM so I guess they are ninja released but not quite? 

[Pikkozoikum]

1 hour ago, Prophecy82 said:

 

Sub is at operating depth. Can it proxy spot there? 

I really have no clue how Sub spotting mechanics work.... they seem to be convoluted. 

 

IIRC proxy spotting has its unique symbol (triangle with exclamation mark).

 

go into your port and check the concealment values against submarines, mouse over will give clarification

 

23 minutes ago, Prophecy82 said:

So they just forgot to make this a proxy-spot symbol?

Might be the mod? But also, do you get a proxy-spotting icon, if it is "normal spotted" as well?

[Prophecy82]

8 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Might be the mod? But also, do you get a proxy-spotting icon, if it is "normal spotted" as well?

 

Nope. My mod has proxy spot symbol. 

[Pikkozoikum]

8 minutes ago, Prophecy82 said:

 

Nope. My mod has proxy spot symbol. 

Yes, but also in case of submarines? Maybe it uses somehow another function in the programmcode and the mode is not recognizing it. It's just a possibility

But also, I think you don't get proxy spotted, when you are normal spotted, or do you? I dont remember

 

 

 

But anyways, depending on the depth of the submarine, you will have a concealment value against that submarine

[arttuperkunas]

7 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Yes, but also in case of submarines? Maybe it uses somehow another function in the programmcode and the mode is not recognizing it. It's just a possibility

But also, I think you don't get proxy spotted, when you are normal spotted, or do you? I dont remember

 

 

 

But anyways, depending on the depth of the submarine, you will have a concealment value against that submarine

So probably you were not proxy spotted, but normal spotted. Great game design btw.

[Pikkozoikum]

6 minutes ago, arttuperkunas said:

So probably you were not proxy spotted, but normal spotted. Great game design btw.

I would have solved that differently, but I kinda like that design. The more the submarine becomes invisible, the more issues has the submarine, to see other ships. It's kinda balancing the "invisibility"

 

Surface - normal concealment but also normal spotting

Periscope depth - improved concealment, but also "air-spotting" (the concealment values of ships vs submarines are same with the air-concealment values)

Opertaing depth - improved concealment, but also "air-spotting"

Maxium depth - invisible, but also blind

 

if a sumbarines is on periscope depth, a Zao can only be seen at 6km. So if a Zao takes advantage of it, she could move straight towards that, activate hydro and maybe get some shells on the submarine

[Prophecy82]

Nice so bcs of this glorious design you have to memorize about 200 new concealment values? 

[FallenOrchid]

19 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Yes, but also in case of submarines? Maybe it uses somehow another function in the programmcode and the mode is not recognizing it. It's just a possibility

But also, I think you don't get proxy spotted, when you are normal spotted, or do you? I dont remember

 

 

 

But anyways, depending on the depth of the submarine, you will have a concealment value against that submarine

 

But my expection is (for your example): If the sub is at operting depth and 2.0 to 2.4 away from me I am spotted. If it is <2.0 away from me I am proximity spotted. So in OPs example I would expect he is proxy spotted.

[The_Chiv]

2 hours ago, Prophecy82 said:

I didnt fire any shot. 

I marked the approximate position of the red Zao on the Minimap. 

 

 

proxy spotting yes even underwater the 2km rule applies for some stupid reason though it should not. WG kind of fails when it comes to spotting mechanics as illustrated by CV's

[Pikkozoikum]

8 minutes ago, FallenOrchid said:

 

But my expection is (for your example): If the sub is at operting depth and 2.0 to 2.4 away from me I am spotted. If it is <2.0 away from me I am proximity spotted. So in OPs example I would expect he is proxy spotted.

No, submarine is blind at maxium depth, no proxy spotting^^

 

Only with Sub-Hydro, the submarine can see the positions, but that is no "normal spotting", that is minimap spotting + highlighting the position ingame. The ship gets rendered for 0.5s (or 1s, but not spotted)

 

[FallenOrchid]

9 minutes ago, Prophecy82 said:

Nice so bcs of this glorious design you have to memorize about 200 new concealment values? 

Different ranges depending on depth makes sense for balance and immersion but some time ago they aligned radar ranges because the players can't deal with different ranges in one line. Well...

[FallenOrchid]

2 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

No, submarine is blind at maxium depth, no proxy spotting^^

 

Only with Sub-Hydro, the submarine can see the positions, but that is no "normal spotting", that is minimap spotting + highlighting the position ingame. The ship gets rendered for 0.5s (or 1s, but not spotted)

 

 

10 minutes ago, FallenOrchid said:

But my expection is (for your example): If the sub is at operting depth and 2.0 to 2.4 away from me I am spotted. If it is <2.0 away from me I am proximity spotted. So in OPs example I would expect he is proxy spotted.

I had a typo but you should get it anyway.

[Pikkozoikum]

18 minutes ago, Prophecy82 said:

Nice so bcs of this glorious design you have to memorize about 200 new concealment values? 

No, you have to memorize your Air concealment.

[Pikkozoikum]

9 minutes ago, FallenOrchid said:

12 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

No, submarine is blind at maxium depth, no proxy spotting^^

 

Only with Sub-Hydro, the submarine can see the positions, but that is no "normal spotting", that is minimap spotting + highlighting the position ingame. The ship gets rendered for 0.5s (or 1s, but not spotted)

 

 

20 minutes ago, FallenOrchid said:

But my expection is (for your example): If the sub is at operting depth and 2.0 to 2.4 away from me I am spotted. If it is <2.0 away from me I am proximity spotted. So in OPs example I would expect he is proxy spotted.

I had a typo but you should get it anyway.

I'm actually not 100% sure. It could be the case, that proxy spotting works only surface to surface, and underwater to underwater. But as I said, not 100%

In the case of this example above, it should be normal-spotted anyways.

 

When I played submarine, the only proxy spotting I remember was, when a submarine was submerged with me underwater. I was always normal spotted around 2km by surface ships.

 

Just a little side note: The sub hydro doesn't go through terrain unlike radar and hydro ^^

[NewHorizons_1]

Yup, you need to memorize

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Submarines_in_Ranked_and_Co-op_Battles_in_2021

 

There will be an exam later.

[Prophecy82]

9 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

No, you have to memorize your Air concealment.

Fine. 

 

Just shows how broken the design is. 

Have fun "hunting" a sub that is running from you when you have no hedgehogs or alike. 

[Pikkozoikum]

1 minute ago, Prophecy82 said:

Just shows how broken the design is. 

I don't see, how that is broken? Submarines are pretty slow, so they need a counter-balance, and that is submerging. But instead of making them OP underwater, there is also a counter-balance, that a submarine have limited vision. That sounds to me like balance

 

1 minute ago, Prophecy82 said:

Have fun "hunting" a sub that is running from you when you have no hedgehogs or alike. 

This kind of complaint I really hate. DDs are the exact same "frustration" without radar. So this is a design, that already exists in this game. Nothing new

[Pikkozoikum]

6 minutes ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

Yup, you need to memorize

Only the air concealment. Technically no new values.

But I get the point. Yes it's more complex, and it's sad, that many players don't like complexity

[NewHorizons_1]

21 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Only the air concealment. Technically no new values.

I suppose the UI window you get by pressing H could have been improved here.

It could indicate the detection range(s) from subs as well as aircraft and surface ships.