PEGI 18 : 4 All NEW games that have gambling

[UnterSeeBot]

The next time you hear somebody from WG claiming that WOWS (and I guess WOT) are voluntarily moving to a PEGI 12 status, ...

https://www.askaboutgames.com/news/pegi-rating-for-gambling-is-now-always-18

came across this thanks to igrey's twitter and 

Now you may have heard via Sub_Octavian , WOWS executive producer, that WOWS has voluntarily asked for PEGI 12 status instead of the current PEGI 7 status/ Before you have a heart attack from an attack of hysterical laughter, (WG taking moral high ground by protecting 7 to 12 year old kids from "simulated" gambling after X number of years exploiting the tikes) this voluntary initiative on the part of WOWS appears instead, to be a rearguard effort to prevent WOWS from being labelled PEGI 18. After all, WOWS does need to protect both its revenues earned on the backs of 12 - 18 year old teens gambling away their pocket money, and to protect the WOWSWG educational programme for teenagers which teaches them why gambling is great with free lootboxes, in preparation for their 1st adults only Credit Card!

Am I being sarcastic? Not at all. 

 

PEGI 18 is long overdue, I just hope that whoever decides PEGI status decides to apply the new rules, retroactively, so that not only new games are affected, but existing games too!

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

What was it Sub O called it again? Purchases including random items? Like the surprise mechanics euphemism? Lootboxes are lootboxes. If WG wants to sell and promote lootboxes and other lootbox and gambling related items in game, do so but be a responsible business about it run by adults with propbably lots of parents working there as well. Stop beating around the bush. Volunteer to the appropriate PEGI 18 rating.

 

 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

2 minutes ago, Europizza said:

What was it Sub O called it again? Purchases including random items? Like the surprise mechanics euphemism?

PEGI 18+ rating has been long overdue. The PEGI 7 rating has been streched for years now. PEGI 12 is misleading towards parents.

 

 

 

So what is gambling then? 'Purchases including random disappointments'? What's the difference?

 

The problem is that the 'simulated gambling' refers to depiction of gambling. That does not apply in cases like WG, because it is not 'simulated' gambling we are talking about there but actual gambling.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

8 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

So what is gambling then? 'Purchases including random disappointments'? What's the difference?

 

The problem is that the 'simulated gambling' refers to depiction of gambling. That does not apply in cases like WG, because it is not 'simulated' gambling we are talking about there but actual gambling.

The interesting part is that buying lootboxes is an act of gambling in itself which arguably is a worse case scenario for kids and their parents then just depicting it. As WG is so gallantly proposing to do the right thing here, proactively in the industry, they would do actually right by applying for a PEGI 18 rating and warn parents and children about the inclusion of the gambing business model included their product.

[Miragetank90]

IF this is true,  and assuming what Sub_O says about prem ships and prem time sales being the main revenue stream is also correct(pretty sure it is)...

Then the effect may be that WoWs actually removes lootboxes and ''gambling'' altogether to keep the rating down. 

 

I wouldn't bet on this happening, but hey. 

[MixuS]

2 minutes ago, Miragetank90 said:

I wouldn't bet on this happening, but hey. 

Intentional choice of words or...? 

[ColonelPete]

8 minutes ago, Miragetank90 said:

IF this is true,  and assuming what Sub_O says about prem ships and prem time sales being the main revenue stream is also correct(pretty sure it is)...

Then the effect may be that WoWs actually removes lootboxes and ''gambling'' altogether to keep the rating down. 

 

I wouldn't bet on this happening, but hey. 

Old ratings do not get changed, unless WG applies for it or re-releases the game.

[Molly_Delaney]

Pegi 18 would be cool for another reason.....

I could finally explain explain to the ****** on my team just what ****** **** *** ******ing ***** ***** ******* they are without getting banned...

 

[mtm78]

12 minutes ago, Miragetank90 said:

IF this is true,  and assuming what Sub_O says about prem ships and prem time sales being the main revenue stream is also correct(pretty sure it is)...

Then the effect may be that WoWs actually removes lootboxes and ''gambling'' altogether to keep the rating down. 

 

I wouldn't bet on this happening, but hey. 

One could hope, but I have a higher chance of winning the lotery 

[CptBarney]

1 minute ago, mtm78 said:

One could hope, but I have a higher chance of winning the lotery 

Weird how madden 22 is only 3+ despite having literal gambling inside, same with fifa and NB2K. Guess EA be paying them handsomely.

And yet pokemon red, blue, yellow is 18+.

 

Great logic nice too see the people working there are absolutely clueless.

[ColonelPete]

4 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Weird how madden 22 is only 3+ despite having literal gambling inside, same with fifa and NB2K. Guess EA be paying them handsomely.

And yet pokemon red, blue, yellow is 18+.

 

Great logic nice too see the people working there are absolutely clueless.

Red:

https://pegi.info/search-pegi?q=Pokemon+red&op=Search&age[]=&descriptor[]=&publisher=&platform[]=&release_year[]=&page=1&form_build_id=form-_7kFY5PPDYqWBdAvLNuZwvIhOVl0J9aP5d_gUEQfQgI&form_id=pegi_search_form

 

Blue:

https://pegi.info/search-pegi?q=Pokemon+Blue&op=Search&filter-age[]=&filter-descriptor[]=&filter-publisher=&filter-platform[]=&filter-release-year[]=&page=1&form_build_id=form-KUfsAmYBvbXoMiNWEX64W6a-4saEHZp3klKPOLRaNsU&form_id=pegi_search_form

 

Yellow:

https://pegi.info/search-pegi?q=Pokemon+yellow&op=Search&age[]=&descriptor[]=&publisher=&platform[]=&release_year[]=&page=1&form_build_id=form-SDO8rMwxj8Hv87a0FmQswnAn--GxCzhslz3K53asYgQ&form_id=pegi_search_form

 

All

Spoiler

[CptBarney]

ok they dropped them down to 12+

 

https://pegi.info/search-pegi?q=pokemon &op=Search&age[0]=&descriptor[0]=&publisher=&platform[0]=&release_year[0]=&page=2&form_build_id=form-y9FQNh5htVaPddvFHurH2pWDulc5bchkBrYh_WfM0GE&form_id=pegi_search_form

 

But still, not sure why those 3 other games aren't at the same pegi rating. Not sure about the other pokemon games since i haven't played them at all or for ages (gen 2, gen 3, gen 4).

[Camperdown]

39 minutes ago, Europizza said:

What was it Sub O called it again? Purchases including random items? Like the surprise mechanics euphemism? Lootboxes are lootboxes. If WG wants to sell and promote lootboxes and other lootbox and gambling related items in game, do so but be a responsible business run by adults and propbably lots of parents about it. Stop beating around the bush. Volunteer to the appropriate PEGI 18 rating.

 

 

It's not gambling, they are pleasant and stimulating surprises. A bit like Santa Claus 

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, CptBarney said:

ok they dropped them down to 12+

 

https://pegi.info/search-pegi?q=pokemon &op=Search&age[0]=&descriptor[0]=&publisher=&platform[0]=&release_year[0]=&page=2&form_build_id=form-y9FQNh5htVaPddvFHurH2pWDulc5bchkBrYh_WfM0GE&form_id=pegi_search_form

 

But still, not sure why those 3 other games aren't at the same pegi rating. Not sure about the other pokemon games since i haven't played them at all or for ages (gen 2, gen 3, gen 4).

They did not drop them. They were never at 18. The guideline was changed in 2020. The games were rated before that.

[UnterSeeBot]

15 minutes ago, Molly_Delaney said:

Pegi 18 would be cool for another reason.....

I could finally explain explain to the ****** on my team just what ****** **** *** ******ing ***** ***** ******* they are without getting banned...

 

**********************************ing+1!

[doerhoff_damian]

Yes lets make it Pegi 18 so we don´t have to worry if the Jokes or the Movie Scenes and Pictures from our favorite Science Fiction or Horror Movies that we post in the Off Topic Section are appropriate

[UnterSeeBot]

19 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Weird how madden 22 is only 3+ despite having literal gambling inside, same with fifa and NB2K. Guess EA be paying them handsomely.

And yet pokemon red, blue, yellow is 18+.

 

Great logic nice too see the people working there are absolutely clueless.

this new rule for PEGI classification only applies to new games, for now. Also the devil is in the detail, 18+ refers to "simulated gambling", the crux of the question is what counts as simulation? Does the game need a virtual casino with one armed bandits and roulette tables (SWTOR has these), or do free lootboxes with randomized contents count? We don't decide this, but the momentum of current regulatory fashion is moving, steadily, in the direction of considering premium lootboxes to be a form of gambling, and therefore, free lootboxes to be a form of "simulated gambling".

Would you consider Pokemon to be PEGI 18? The future will tell.

[Hugh_Ruka]

Hah, what a joke ... let me explain:

 

If you have a minigame that looks like a card game (poker and the like) even if NO money is involved anywhere = PEGI 18 because simulated gambling

If you have loot boxes/card packs/you name it where you bet real money on the chance of an ingame item = PEGI 3 (FIFA f.e.)

[ColonelPete]

2 minutes ago, doerhoff_damian said:

Yes lets make it Pegi 18 so we don´t have to worry if the Jokes or the Movie Scenes and Pictures from our favorite Science Fiction or Horror Movies that we post in the Off Topic Section are appropriate

 

23 minutes ago, Molly_Delaney said:

Pegi 18 would be cool for another reason.....

I could finally explain explain to the ****** on my team just what ****** **** *** ******ing ***** ***** ******* they are without getting banned...

 

As if WG would change the rules for the forum or the game chat...

[mtm78]

7 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

They did not drop them. They were never at 18. The guideline was changed in 2020. The games were rated before that.

Quote

Following the publication of this piece PEGI has clarified that older games with simulated gambling elements will retain their age rating if re-released, provided that the game is not upgraded, modernised, re-interpreted or altered in any other way that would lead it to be interpreted as a new game. This means games that were historically rated as PEGI 12 will maintain that rating if it is put on the market again in the same form.

 

But this can not apply to this game as there are constant additions / alterations and now adding submarines would surely make it a new game  ( -> me trolling because it might actually be a gut reason to get rid of those submarines after all you hear me WeeGee?? ). 

[ColonelPete]

Just now, mtm78 said:

  

But this can not apply to this game as there are constant additions / alterations and now adding submarines would surely make it a new game  ( -> me trolling because it might actually be a gut reason to get rid of those submarines after all you hear me WeeGee?? ). 

But this game does not get re-released, unless WG decides to do it...

28 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Old ratings do not get changed, unless WG applies for it or re-releases the game.

 

[mtm78]

3 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

But this game does not get re-released, unless WG decides to do it...

 

...Poof there goes all hope...

[UnterSeeBot]

Just now, ColonelPete said:

But this game does not get re-released, unless WG decides to do it...

 

WG is appplying (Sub_Octavian announced this on NA) for the PEGI 12 rating, up from PEGI 7. I think this is to protect WOWS long term status and its proto-monetization* (gambling) policies toward young (teens essentially) people. They know PEGI 7 is unsustainable, and want to head off an enforced 18+ rating before regulatory authorities take notice and take action.

*free content that simulates gambling mechanics, aka lootboxes and other random prize draws.

[ColonelPete]

Just now, LoveZeppelin said:

WG is appplying (Sub_Octavian announced this on NA) for the PEGI 12 rating, up from PEGI 7. I think this is to protect WOWS long term status and its proto-monetization* (gambling) policies toward young (teens essentially) people. They know PEGI 7 is unsustainable, and want to head off an enforced 18+ rating before regulatory authorities take notice and take action.

*free content that simulates gambling mechanics, aka lootboxes and other random prize draws.

It is unlikely that an 18 rating would be enforced on older games. That would also apply to Pokemon.

[UnterSeeBot]

1 minute ago, mtm78 said:

 

...Poof there goes all hope...

don't despair : 

"So, I just got some clarification from PEGI regarding this. It seems if an older game that was rated 12+ is re-released, it would retain its age rating. However if it had upgrades, modernised, or reshuffled it'll need to be re-rated in which case would have it"

for example reworking ALL the maps? or the CV rework that fundamentally changed gameplay mechanics for all? Or if the game engine were overhauled, modernized or changed in a significant way? Surely this ought apply to WOWS?