Marceau VS Ragnar, who will win?

[luokailk]

Hi guys, I'd like to know 

Marceau VS Ragnar, who will win?

Which one is stronger in random / ranked?

Tx in advance

 

[gabberworld]

30 minutes ago, luokailk said:

Hi guys, I'd like to know 

Marceau VS Ragnar, who will win?

Which one is stronger in random / ranked?

Tx in advance

 

without others help,  Ragnar wins but there is also how good is the Ragnar player self

[Verblonde]

1 hour ago, luokailk said:

Which one is stronger in random / ranked?

Although I have both, I don't definitively know yet, due to only having a few Coops under my belt in Ragnar so far.

 

That said, I might tentatively lean towards Ragnar, but only if your allies are competent, because of the radar. The heal doesn't hurt either - it ought to make you marginally better at the "don't die" mission.

 

If your allies are hopeless, I would probably go with Marceau, as - with her torps - she's probably better as an 'army of one' (Ragnar isn't much use when high alpha strikes are called for, due to not having torps). She's also slightly sneakier (7.0 km versus 7.5 km)...

 

 

[lafeel]

2 hours ago, luokailk said:

Hi guys, I'd like to know 

Marceau VS Ragnar, who will win?

Which one is stronger in random / ranked?

Tx in advance

 

Depends on the player, and how much support the player has.

9 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

If your allies are hopeless, I would probably go with Marceau, as - with her torps - she's probably better as an 'army of one' (Ragnar isn't much use when high alpha strikes are called for, due to not having torps). She's also slightly sneakier (7.0 km versus 7.5 km).

The extra speed certainly doesn't  hurt either.

[Miscommunication_dept]

This is easy....

 

At close range, Marceau melts the Ragnar as long as he knows when to use AP

 

At long range, the Ragnar will murder the poor Marceau.

 

Which one is stronger is harder to answer. I don't have Ragnar but it looks extremely strong at long range but also much easier to hit then the Marceau

Ragnar can also contest caps better when it's radar is up. However, at the kind of ranges where the enemy DD is spotted, the Marceau's dpm will beat the benefit of Ragnar's shell arcs.

 

Ragnar's 25mm will probably make it very strong against most DDs, from my time in Elbing, many will keep shooting HE at your broadside, shattering everything. Good DDs though will do huge AP damage to the broadside.

 

 

 

 

[MannequinSkywalker]

Same skillset, Ragnar will.

[arttuperkunas]

Ragnar is a pain to deal with. Poor concealment doesn’t matter much when you have radar.

[Miscommunication_dept]

6 minutes ago, arttuperkunas said:

Ragnar is a pain to deal with. Poor concealment doesn’t matter much when you have radar.

A max of 108 seconds of radar in a battle means it does spend over 90% of the battle without it!

 

That said, good players will use the radar very effectively!

[tocqueville8]

Just now, arttuperkunas said:

Ragnar is a pain to deal with. Poor concealment doesn’t matter much when you have radar.

Isn't her radar 7.5 km like her maxed-out concealment?

 

That would still be useful against an unaware, maybe smoked-up DD, but in the open it should be far less useful than Smaland radar, for instance...

[Trench4nt]

Vor 11 Stunden, gabberworld sagte:

without others help,  Ragnar wins but there is also how good is the Ragnar player self

 

Well, with other ships, the guy with the other ships always wins?

[Malim0o]

With no doubt, Marceau

[gabberworld]

1 hour ago, Trench4nt said:

 

Well, with other ships, the guy with the other ships always wins?

not really, it depends for team as well, i know for example that i need help the dd when he meet the ragnar

[totally_potato]

13 hours ago, luokailk said:

Hi guys, I'd like to know 

Marceau VS Ragnar, who will win?

Which one is stronger in random / ranked?

Tx in advance

 

in a 1v1? Its tough to say

Marceau is insanely fast for Ragnar to hit in the hands of an average player, and dodging is a thing as well as speed juking. But Marceau at long range is crap at hitting stuff like DDs, and any competent Ragnar player will try to stay at range like Elbing in order to utilize that insane accuracy. Its a stalemate at long range tbh if its a battle to the death

At close range tho, I think Marceau wins, for that insane DPM. If its your average joe player, then probably ragnar has a better chance of winning, if its a good player who has the recent knowledge on ships in the game, then I think Marceau beats Ragnar as 25mm plating is enough to arm AP, and its distributed in a way, that if he tries to angle, HE will also murder him as unlike Elbing, ragnar's 25mm plating is not as efficient and the chance of hitting the exposed areas is larger. Also Marceau has french saturation gimmick.

All this comes down to skill and knowledge

 

Now in terms of effectiveness

Marceau is a better ship for comp modes. The simple reason is that speed and torp power, none of which the Ragnar has (its speed boost is only good enough for getting in/getting out and not both, and also maintaining distance for a very short time to drop conceal, its not consistent like Marceau speed boost is). Ragnar has some really good guns, with enhanced survivability in HP and trolly placement of rather underrate but effective armor + 3 heals. But having no torps makes things a bit rough for ragnar as it can't deny an area, let alone kill anything bigger than a DD outright. Marceau doesn't get that problem. It can easily go in, drop torps with a 2km window and get out, as well as farm and gun down DDs. It also has a bit of AP power at closer ranges that in yolos, if it does have to fight a cruiser, it can. 

 

So Marceau is a better ship for comp while Ragnar is better for randoms. You really don't want a Ragnar is your team unless you have atleast 2 other DDs with decent torps. Ragnar also has terrible conceal. 

[_HomTanks_]

Are there any Ragnar owners here? I am thinking of getting her but not sure 100%.  
 

Only asking to Ragnar owners, worth the steel or not, yay or nay?

[totally_potato]

4 minutes ago, WgPlsNerfColorado said:

Are there any Ragnar owners here? I am thinking of getting her but not sure 100%.  
 

Only asking to Ragnar owners, worth the steel or not, yay or nay?

absolutely worth the steel

Basically an oversized Smaland but its kind of not busted coz no torps

As a gunboat lover and a Smaland owner, I like it a lot

[arttuperkunas]

4 hours ago, gopher31 said:

A max of 108 seconds of radar in a battle means it does spend over 90% of the battle without it!

 

That said, good players will use the radar very effectively!

You also don’t spend 90% of a battle being outspotted by a stealthier dd - you use the radar when you need it. Radar also means stealthier dds will keep their distance unless they know the radar is on cooldown. The net result is that bad concealment is less of a handicap than on say the paolo emilio.

 

This also means you cant just keep the ragnar lit with impunity for teammates to shoot, because of the radar, and you cant really push it in a dd for the sane reason. I hate radar on dds :(

[_HomTanks_]

6 minutes ago, totally_potato said:

absolutely worth the steel

Basically an oversized Smaland but its kind of not busted coz no torps

As a gunboat lover and a Smaland owner, I like it a lot

What are your random game impressions, results like?

[totally_potato]

2 minutes ago, WgPlsNerfColorado said:

What are your random game impressions, results like?

I just said whatever I did to you in terms of random battles

In short, its quite nice to play. Murders DDs, it farms cruisers and Bbs pretty well, but it can be pushed out quite easily as without its special speed boost its slow and sluggish. It does have Elbing like 25mm plating and swedish heal, along with a gigantic amount of HP, so its hard to kill. I am no expert at balance, but imho, I feel like its quite a strong ship but its not OP at all. It has radar too, and with full stealth build, you can literally click the radar button and spot whatever is spotting it. 

[Verblonde]

12 hours ago, lafeel said:

The extra speed certainly doesn't  hurt either.

This is true, although Ragnar's engine boost (+30% for a minute, unmodified) can be helpful for getting you out of trouble, although my experience of that is largely based on Smaland's equivalent.

 

30 minutes ago, WgPlsNerfColorado said:

Only asking to Ragnar owners, worth the steel or not, yay or nay?

I haven't tried mine out against real people yet, but I would give a tentative yes, although that depends heavily on the sorts of ships you like to play (and which steel ships you have already). Something like 3/4 of my PvP games are in DDs, so any DD is worth more than tubbier ships to me; for a more balanced player, some of the alternatives might be more useful.

 

Ragnar is absolutely not as good as Smaland (IMO), but then again there is a reason Smaland got removed! My early impression is that Ragnar is worth having because she's interesting, rather than because she's a monster...

[Spartan_Renegade]

"A ship is only as good as its captain"

 

lol

[Verblonde]

1 hour ago, WgPlsNerfColorado said:

What are your random game impressions, results like?

FWIW I've just played my first two Randoms, mainly out of curiosity:

• The first one (a loss) wasn't terribly glorious - I was facing a T10 CV (Midway?) and he seemed to have a hard-on for Ikea DDs, and spent much of the first half of the game attacking me, which meant I couldn't do very much of use (although I did bag 30-odd of his planes, but that does include at least one flight of fighters.
• The second (a win):

• That was enough to get me second place, with another Ragnar in third. It's only one battle, but Ragnar looks like she's pretty good if the enemy don't make enough effort to close you down (and/or you kill the DD facing you, as in this case - a hapless Halland). You have accurate guns and the ROF isn't disastrous, but you need time to damage anything tubbier than a DD; I suspect that results are largely dependent on whether you're given this time (or create it, for better players than I am).

If it's of use, this is the 19-point captain I'm currently running in Ragnar (haven't decided what to do with the eventual last two points yet):

This is the equipment loadout:

 

For reference, this is the Daily Bounce review of Ragnar, if anyone hasn't seen it: https://thedailybounce.net/world-of-warships/final-review-european-tier-x-freemium-destroyer-ragnar/

[SkollUlfr]

iirc, historically, paris managed to repel the viking forces led by ragnar, even after he supposedly had his men carry the longboats across land to get around the river defences. though i dont think marceau had been built or named at that point.

[Miscommunication_dept]

3 hours ago, WgPlsNerfColorado said:

What are your random game impressions, results like?

Streamers like Maltese knight and Carbine Carlito seem to play it quite a lot on stream and both have YouTube videos out on it.

[lafeel]

1 hour ago, Spartan_Renegade said:

"A ship is only as good as its captain"

 

lol

Laugh all you want, it's absolutely true.

[_HomTanks_]

5 hours ago, Verblonde said:

FWIW I've just played my first two Randoms, mainly out of curiosity:

• The first one (a loss) wasn't terribly glorious - I was facing a T10 CV (Midway?) and he seemed to have a hard-on for Ikea DDs, and spent much of the first half of the game attacking me, which meant I couldn't do very much of use (although I did bag 30-odd of his planes, but that does include at least one flight of fighters.
• The second (a win):

• That was enough to get me second place, with another Ragnar in third. It's only one battle, but Ragnar looks like she's pretty good if the enemy don't make enough effort to close you down (and/or you kill the DD facing you, as in this case - a hapless Halland). You have accurate guns and the ROF isn't disastrous, but you need time to damage anything tubbier than a DD; I suspect that results are largely dependent on whether you're given this time (or create it, for better players than I am).

If it's of use, this is the 19-point captain I'm currently running in Ragnar (haven't decided what to do with the eventual last two points yet):

This is the equipment loadout:

 

For reference, this is the Daily Bounce review of Ragnar, if anyone hasn't seen it: https://thedailybounce.net/world-of-warships/final-review-european-tier-x-freemium-destroyer-ragnar/

I got it and played one game. Had to face off a Haru, Nevsky and Montana almost alone from 9-10km as the Bourgogne and Zao (they later both died without doing anything anyway and both reported me for calling them out. This game is full of noob snowflakes)  next to me pussed out and stayed behind and island. So, exchanging that much firepower took me down but i sunk Nevsky and brought Montana and Haru HP down beforehand. Ended with a win but a mediocre game for me. It seemed like it takes full AP pen like Khaba. Also at one point it took too long to put a fire on Montana, too. Need more games to see what its real potential is. Also i use AFT for the second 4 point skill and incoming fire alert. On second upgrade i have upgraded speed boost (17K coal) and on third one AA. Rest is same.