TRB vs smoke Kagero/Yugumo

[arttuperkunas]

I'm going up the IJN torp line for the first time. Opinions on which to pick for Kagero/Yugumo for a. ranked b. randoms? I don't really use smokes much for myself, as it limits spotting; the most useful aspect of smoke IMO is team utility (smoking up light cruisers) and getting tactical shots on enemy dds and cruisers (i.e. fire one-two alphas, smoke up to avoid revenge).

 

What do veteran DD players like @Bear__Necessities, @ColonelPete and @Europizza pick, and why?

[Bindolaf_Werebane]

I never liked Kagero much (or maybe it was the hellish tier 8 matchmaking), but I play Yugumo 100% with TRB.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Always smoke. TRB is good and all but if you get a CV game a smoke is quite needed. Overall a smoke is very important to fight other DDs. 

So for all occasions I personally would always use smoke. 

 

[bobtherterrible]

What's this got to do with loot boxes, CCs and Submarines?

 

(and TRB btw, even a terrible^tm player* like me found this better. Concealment is good on these boats, they don't have hydro so sitting in smoke just gets you torped and you can't spot once you're in smoke which won't help your team at all. Try to get used to it)

((*actually Kagero was one of the few I cracked))

[Pandafaust]

I've always taken TRB on Kagero and Yugumo, it gives you so much potential threat - and you can often catch DDs off guard with it too as they dodge the first set but not expect the second. With the excellent concealment on both, the smoke's not as necessary as it would be on larger/more visible vessels.

[belalugosisdead]

Well to play with reloadbooster is of course the more damage oriented variant. On the other side you lose the ability to smoke for teammates or smoke yourself while getting attacked or spotted by a good CV. And you have to play more passive on the cap. 

 

Thats why my choice is mostly smoke. Caps and survival beats damage in a DD (or in most DDs. Maybe exclude the more cruiser like DDs). Just my 5 Cents. But i did not play both DDs for a long time, more in my beginning years....

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

I've picked smoke over TBR in most torp oriented DD's. On hybrids like the Hayate smoke is even more relevant. I mostly use(d) smoke on torp dd's as a defensive tool for both myself and teammates, and since there are already loads of smokeless DD's around in matches these days, adding one to the roster doesn't make much sense for the team usually.

 

I've been pretty agressive on caps usually when radar and carrier permits. In those cases, being able to retreat when something goes wrong is vital, since trop DD's can be essential in late game situations. Survival is key.

 

TBR is fun, but I find myself spamming too much due to the availability but NOT increasing my damage output accordingly. I just miss more torps. Having to pick your launch moments probably helps being more effective at launching.

 

Just my 2 cts @arttuperkunas

[arttuperkunas]

Thanks for all of these opinions, it's particularly valulable that I get the reasoning, as it helps to weight the pros and cons of this choice.

 

For the record: I play DDs to win, damage is really a secondary concern. My gut feeling is that smoke is better for winning games due to better utility, and helping fight other dds (so if a DD is spotted you can pepper away with your slow firing, high alpha 127mm he).

[Ubertron_X]

Going up the IJN DD line the first time I would recommend smoke over TRB as it needs at least some experience to be able to drop the smoke in favour of damage.

 

Advantages of smoke:

 

+ You can usually safely cap an otherwise unopposed cap, even if a CV is present in the game.

+ You have an "oh sh1t" button for all kinds of surprises and misplays, e.g. messed up DD fights, CA surprises, CVs that want to farm you etc.

 

Advantages of TRB:

 

+ Wall of torps for surprise DD hits and farming capital ships

+ You will not even be tempted to rely on the possibly false safety of your smoke screen

 

Personally I use TRB whenever possible as by now I feel quite confident in my ability to avoid most "oh sh1t" situations and I only really miss the smoke when there is an empty cap and a CV in game.

[Bindolaf_Werebane]

I want to add another advantage of TRB. I almost never use it to send a wall of skill® down the reds' throats. I keep it as a "need torps now" button. So, if you've shot at a target and you're on cool down, but spot a good opportunity, or a threat. Hit TRB, voila! A fresh set of fish, all ready. TRB multiplies the potential of Yugumo so much - with drawbacks, of course.

[Panocek]

From my experience in DDs in general, biggest limitation to torpedoes isn't their reload speed, but being able to get into optimal launch position - launching them against even remotely angled targets greatly increases odds of target dodging the spread. Even on "very narrow" EU or single launch UK torps, using those against angled/bow on targets gambles on enemy not doing anything, as even minor speed or course change is enough for torps to miss.

 

Thus, I've went with smoke as means of disengaging as well opportunity to make use of the guns against targets of opportunity. And IJN 127mm are not bad by any means.

[tocqueville8]

Smoke is useful to farm a DD that's just used hers, if one of your teammates is providing spotting.

 

Smoke is also useful to finish capping if a CV is coming to reset you.

 

Except for emergencies, TRB should be used right after a normal torpedo drop (doing the opposite will waste it), so you want its cooldown to synchronize with the torpedo reload, either in a 1:1 ratio or 2:1 (e.g. ~180s for both TRB and standard torp reload on the Kitakaze, or 240s for TRB and 117s the maxed-out torp reload on the Hayate).

 

TRB is a better pick for the Yugumo than the Kagero, as the Yugumo will often be in all-T9 games, where CVs are absent by default.

 

Keep in mind that studying the behavior of your targets, figuring out if they're going to turn, go nose-in, who they're angled against, etc., can lead you to have better results with 8 well-aimed torps than with 16 dropped half-assedly.

Also, unless you're engaging multiple targets at once, TRB brings diminishing returns: if your target sails broadside into your torps, 8 should be more than enough; if they don't, 16 might only give you 1 hit instead of 0, which frankly isn't worth giving up the smoke.

 

Just a few thoughts.

[Panocek]

9 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

Finally, keep in mind that studying your target's behavior, figuring out if they're going to turn, go nose-in, who they're angled against, etc., can lead you to have better results with 8 well-aimed torps than with 16 dropped half-assedly.

And then you can somewhat mimic TRB by not dumping all launchers at single target - just launch one, wait till they hit or miss target, then, once target stabilizes, launch second one.

 

This tactic works better when you have three (or more) launchers though

[tocqueville8]

2 minutes ago, Panocek said:

And then you can somewhat mimic TRB by not dumping all launchers at single target - just launch one, wait till they hit or miss target, then, once target stabilizes, launch second one.

 

This tactic works better when you have three (or more) launchers though

I tried that when I started playing DDs, but personally I found it more effective to go for the big strike every time, as it allows for some small course corrections by the target.

 

I sometimes stagger my launches against nose-in targets, as it's basically a lottery whether they're going to reverse or charge in, but on most occasions I'll launch all I have and let the reload begin.

 

Then again, I haven't played the Shima very much, and I don't own a Somers, either: I'd say keeping a launcher in reserve on those is probably worth it (maybe on the Akatsuki as well).

 

 

 

[Hugh_Ruka]

1. There's a DD subforum, use that next time

2. TRB all the way

[Camperdown]

It depends on you want to do.

Smoke is important to disengage when needed. So, if you want to maximise your spotting contribution to the team, you can get closer in and have a leave jail for free ticket when you need it. Ofc dependent on number of radars.

Also, if a CV really wants to make your life miserable, a smoke will often cause him to lose interest.

TRB gives you more damage farming potential. However, IJN torp line already does strong torp damage without it.

So which extra utility do you want. You indicated you play for win and for the team, so I would suggest smoke. Which is what I do with a win and team oriented play style.

Btw if you want to optimise that play style, also try other DD lines. I like the RN DDs very much for that.

[ColonelPete]

2 hours ago, arttuperkunas said:

I'm going up the IJN torp line for the first time. Opinions on which to pick for Kagero/Yugumo for a. ranked b. randoms? I don't really use smokes much for myself, as it limits spotting; the most useful aspect of smoke IMO is team utility (smoking up light cruisers) and getting tactical shots on enemy dds and cruisers (i.e. fire one-two alphas, smoke up to avoid revenge).

 

What do veteran DD players like @Bear__Necessities, @ColonelPete and @Europizza pick, and why?

When the TRB option was introduced I tried it, but did not like it.

A few months ago there was a discussion on the forum about how much success people had with it and I tried it again.

 

The problem is that you cannot play aggressivly in an enviroment with many DD or CV. You have to be extra careful as you do not have a smoke to fall back to.

I also prefer to be in front of my team and TRB only really pays off when you get the enemy from the side, that means flanking. Leaving the front of your team open to torpedo attacks from the enemy.

 

When you have a battle with no CV and only few DD, then yes, TRB is a great option.

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

2 hours ago, arttuperkunas said:

I'm going up the IJN torp line for the first time. Opinions on which to pick for Kagero/Yugumo for a. ranked b. randoms? I don't really use smokes much for myself, as it limits spotting; the most useful aspect of smoke IMO is team utility (smoking up light cruisers) and getting tactical shots on enemy dds and cruisers (i.e. fire one-two alphas, smoke up to avoid revenge).

 

What do veteran DD players like @Bear__Necessities, @ColonelPete and @Europizza pick, and why?

I always go for the TRB option on those ships. I would say that if you need to play with smoke in these ships you are probably playing them wrong. With more and more radars and long range hydros on every other ship smoke becomes more and more useless. TRB on the other hand can decimate an entire flank if played right. 

 

Here is a few examples on how to play TRB Yugumo

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dominik_Tirpitz]

13 minutes ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

I would say that if you need to play with smoke in these ships you are probably playing them wrong. With more and more radars and long range hydros on every other ship smoke becomes more and more useless. TRB on the other hand can decimate an entire flank if played right. 

I agree with this. I played Yugumo in ranked and often enough, my smoke was useless because of radars or hydros. TRB gave me more options there

[arttuperkunas]

Thx for all the feedback! I will look into this more, look at the posted videos and try and find what is "my" playstyle with the Yugumo (I honestly doubt I will play the Kagero that much due to having the Asashio, which does not have to make this choice :P).

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

11 minutes ago, arttuperkunas said:

Thx for all the feedback! I will look into this more, look at the posted videos and try and find what is "my" playstyle with the Yugumo (I honestly doubt I will play the Kagero that much due to having the Asashio, which does not have to make this choice :P).

Yes, if you have Asashio (my favorite ship in the game) there is little reason to play those at all unless you plan to grind the Shimakaze, which is a great ship as well.

 

 

With Asashio you get more damage output, more credit and XP gains and both TRB and smoke. If you need any tips on her I have a full playlist of her on my channel. 2 of my 3 Solo Warriors is in the Asashio.

[GraySlayer]

3 hours ago, arttuperkunas said:

I'm going up the IJN torp line for the first time. Opinions on which to pick for Kagero/Yugumo for a. ranked b. randoms? I don't really use smokes much for myself, as it limits spotting; the most useful aspect of smoke IMO is team utility (smoking up light cruisers) and getting tactical shots on enemy dds and cruisers (i.e. fire one-two alphas, smoke up to avoid revenge).

 

What do veteran DD players like @Bear__Necessities, @ColonelPete and @Europizza pick, and why?

As an average IJN DD player I always take TRB ON Yugumo myself but then im greedy for Torp damage :)

At the end of the day it's not what we play but what you're comfortable with and CAN play around.

[arttuperkunas]

1 minute ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

Yes, if you have Asashio (my favorite ship in the game) there is little reason to play those at all unless you plan to grind the Shimakaze, which is a great ship as well.

 

 

With Asashio you get more damage output, more credit and XP gains and both TRB and smoke. If you need any tips on her I have a full playlist of her on my channel. 2 of my 3 Solo Warriors is in the Asashio.

I know, I've watched some of those videos :P.

 

The number one reason why I am grinding the tech tree is that my divs often want to play T9, and I just don't like the Jutland that much, so I need a stealthy, fun to play T9 DD, and Yug seems to fit the bill.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

I've compared @OldschoolGaming_YouTube and my own stats on the high tier IJN DD's, and if anything take Oldschool's advise over mine. My forte seems to be IJN gunnery DD's, where Oldschool has a much higher WR and average frags on the Yugomo. We are both simular skilled WR players overall (58%) and have played about 200 battles in the Yugomo itself. (59% vs 55%). Ignore me, listen to him ^^

[Camperdown]

13 minutes ago, Europizza said:

I've compared @OldschoolGaming_YouTube and my own stats on the high tier IJN DD's, and if anything take Oldschool's advise over mine. My forte seems to be IJN gunnery DD's, where Oldschool has a much higher WR and average frags on the Yugomo. We are both simular skilled WR players overall (58%) and have played about 200 battles in the Yugomo itself. (59% vs 55%). Ignore me, listen to him ^^

Heheh statshaming yourself