The introduction of Subs. Simple Poll or your view.

[Migantium_Mashum]

I am curious as to fellow forumite opinions.

 

Complete the Poll or add your opinion below.

[SodaBubbles]

needs an option for a sub mode. Really the question is whether we want subs in Randoms. I am fine with them in their own game.

[Aetius85]

They should exist only in Convoy mode. 

[Camperdown]

They should be removed. They don't fit with the game, as is shown by their absurd speed and homing torpedoes. They make gameplay much more boring.

Pity, the sub surface artwork is nicely done as always.

Of course, WG will ignore all feedback and continue with subs. The game will be worse as a result. They might even buff subs to make them more attractive to play, which will make things worse.

[Hugh_Ruka]

I am not against submarines as such. However the current implementation is not it.

 

Also, I have little faith in WG being able to implement submarines properly. Just look at the current testing period. Random bundles in Armory that distribute submarines ? I got the T10s today ... HOW CAN I PLAY THEM in Ranked ??? There were not enough Sprints to reach Gold League yet ... Nobody at WG thought about that ? And when I reach Gold, the rental period expired and I have to roll the dice again ? But I have already got all the bundles ...

 

Just setting up a proper test environment is beyond WGs capabilities.

[Gudgeon]

They do not fit into the game, for a multitude of reasons, so wasting my breath, here goes:

 

• No proper counterplay (yet again....)
• ASW relies on teamwork, which does not exist in the game
• Massive skill mismatch between potential opposition submarine players skews team balance
• homing weapons
• you will get sunk trying to hunt subs, as again no teamwork
• did I say there is no teamwork in the game?
• lack of teamwork......
• ASW weapons are poor/useless, as the developer wants to make subs look OP, so the player base plays the tech tree and buys premuim subs
• they are the new scourge of the game, totally on the next level from CV's

[webaake]

The games have become incredibly boring with Subs. When there are 3 in teams, there's slow action and you don't get any DMG done. Boring. I've begun to watch the qeue screen carefully and when there are too many Subs in the qeue , I leave. Yesterday evening thre were 18 Subs in the qeue before several games. No use playing.

 

I really hope it's a big hype at the moment, and that players will come to thier senses and see the boredom of Subs.

 

But it seems that 95% of the players don't check the forums and that they buy into all of WG's hype.

 

How was it when CV's were introduced? Was there a hype that then settled down after a while? I can well imagine that many players tried out WG's new shiny things!

 

 

[invicta2012]

17 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

Just setting up a proper test environment is beyond WGs capabilities.

Well, apart from that special PVP mode they had a year or two back. But I think WG are trying to see if Subs can work in "the real game" rather than a separate mode. 

[Figment]

24 minutes ago, webaake said:

How was it when CV's were introduced? Was there a hype that then settled down after a while? I can well imagine that many players tried out WG's new shiny things!

There's always three weeks to two months where people gain access to new ship lines and play them at a heightened rate. That goes for new classes in particular.

[Aethervoxx]

Subs are & were a major class of naval vessel in the period of history that WoWS covers, hence, it is entirely logical to have said naval class.

Whether Subs, as designed by WG, is a good idea is an entirely different discussion.

[Shirakami_Kon]

They need a serious rework before they fit any current game mode. The new convoy mode to come in the future seems ok for them when it's released into the game, but that's about it. And even then, homing torpedos needs to go and their absurd stealth and dissappearing at will even on your face by just diving enough is retarded.

 

In terms of what to do against them depth charges suck too in my opinion, I understand it's how it worked in real life, but that doesn't fit the game at all considering what submarines can do here if you try to get literally on top of them to depth charge them. Even the fact that even if you completely corner them for a guaranteed kill they can just surface under your ship just to screw you over is dumb.

 

I guess it comes to no one's surprise from devs that don't play the game that they didn't consider any of the multiple flaws of how they implemented submarines. They spent years trying to figure out what the hell to do with them, this is the best abomination they come up with, but instead of admitting there's no proper way to fit them into the game they just go with it anyway... All for the greed of being able to sell premium subs soon...

[Bindolaf_Werebane]

I played quite a few rounds of ranked in a Salmon - and even saved my star a few times (which shows how bad teams are, not how good I am - but it shows another thing I will discuss below).

 

1. In general I like the submarine gameplay. Note that I am biased, though, as I love submarines in general.

 

2. People who say submarines have no counter are wrong. The counters just scale. Destroyers are generally good and can hunt down and destroy a sub in seconds. Cruisers get a little meh and battleships have to get lucky.

 

3. Even though I like the gameplay, it's not terribly exciting. It's stretches of not much interrupted by frantic action. Also, resource management is very important. I'd go as far as to say that diving time is the submarine's hit points.

 

4. Homing torpedoes are a unique problem. They are a headache for battleships, but much less so for cruisers and very little for destroyers (though I dev struck a couple). Without them, submarines would be utterly useless.

 

5. Spotting is also very interesting. Sure, they have great concealment and spotting capabilities, but - unlike carriers - they are in harm's way. See resource management above.

 

6. The thing I said I'd talk about in the intro? Damage. Damage happens not often, but then there's tons of it. You hit an enemy sub, dev strike. Destroyer? Dev strike, or close. You chunk a cruiser pretty well and a battleship, if you can get the sweet spots, take multiple citadels. That often means high scores (or very low ones, if your plays don't pan out).

 

To be honest, subs could use a little more diving capacity to enhance tactical play (or maybe up the recharge time to 1:1). The torpedoes could have a little shorter range, honestly. Their high speed is actually a handicap and I would keep it that way.

 

That's all, folks! Happy to read your feedback.

[_Lupastro_]

I could accept them in randoms and in game... But not with these mechanics

[lovelacebeer]

The problem is subs are just utterly beyond WGs ability to implement that should be evident given after so many trials they are still this bad. 
 

If they were even remotely serious about making subs actually work they would need to completely rework random battles but they are lazy so are just trying to shoehorn subs in 

[MementoMori_6030]

I don't like the idea of CV and Subs in World of Warships and I want them removed.

[Capra76]

1 hour ago, lovelacebeer said:

The problem is subs are just utterly beyond WGs ability to implement that should be evident given after so many trials they are still this bad. 
 

If they were even remotely serious about making subs actually work they would need to completely rework random battles but they are lazy so are just trying to shoehorn subs in 

 

WG seem to have got the development of subs completely back to front, they've spent a great deal of resouces developing the models and underwater environment before they've even worked out if there's a viable game with subs in it.

 

If this were an alpha test I think it's odds on that they'd bin development and move on to something else, as it is we know that they're going to try to force this into random and after that god knows what will happen.

[Mrs_Ragdoll]

I want subs in the game but they need a major overhaul and a lot of fixing and balancing

[Yosha_AtaIante]

I really want them in the game but can't judge on their current state yet. They haven't been in long enough yet and need further adjustments 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

36 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

 

WG seem to have got the development of subs completely back to front, they've spent a great deal of resouces developing the models and underwater environment before they've even worked out if there's a viable game with subs in it.

 

If this were an alpha test I think it's odds on that they'd bin development and move on to something else, as it is we know that they're going to try to force this into random and after that god knows what will happen.

Spot on. Again a testament of how piss poor of a developer Lesta really is. This developer and publisher combo is simply incapable of designing and implementing anything of substantial value concerning subs and gameplay. 2 years of struggling resulted in a class of inverted flying crippled destroyers, and all everyone here agrees on is that it needs more work lol. They focused on the graphics first because that is what will help sell lootboxes. The gameplay only needs to be a bare minimum functional. It won't get much better then this I'm afraid 

[Sir_Sinksalot]

I played the first iteration of subs in WoWS and found them very dull to play and very annoying to play against, to the point that I never even bothered with this second offering of them. Also the controls in the first offering was a total clumsy clusterf*** of bumbling and mashing wrong keys... nah, even if the second was tweak to a moderate improvement in all areas, it's still not suitable for this game.

 

Don't get me wrong, I actually like subs, have played endless hours of the Silent Hunter series years ago but subs by nature need a lot of time to implement and really can't be mashed in with the pace of these quick 8-15 minute ship battles. A large part of the fun and attraction of sub games is that meticulous attention to detail and time consuming chores that last hours at a time lol! You either love it or hate it sort of a thing! The actual attack is just the crescendo but still a small part of the bigger gameplay picture both before and after the attack. By comparison, this WoWS sub offering is just a complete sh*tshow of laughably bad arcade gameplay that's still way too dull by comparison to the other more action packed classes with just the odd brief moment of success between the subs otherwise drab and clumsy gameplay.

[Sir_Sinksalot]

Btw you can expect WG to drive on with these subs, it ain't gonna go away.

 

I'm more than familiar with this company from playing WoT's over the years and their approach is that typical pig-headed stubborn east-EU Belarusian attitude which is they will conceive an idea, pour lots of time and effort into it, never actually consider the ramifications of it, add it, discover it to be very very unpleasant with the playerbase and not suitable for the game and yet STILL drive on with it, never ever accept that it was a bad idea or unsuitable for the game with this "It's fine, we'll fix it later" bs attitude and just keep adding patch after patch until eventually that toxic new creation becomes somewhat "acceptable" though it never truly is, just like CV's, SPG and WV's to mention just a few. 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

On 8/23/2021 at 9:41 AM, SodaBubbles said:

needs an option for a sub mode. Really the question is whether we want subs in Randoms. I am fine with them in their own game.

 

On 8/23/2021 at 9:45 AM, Aetius85 said:

They should exist only in Convoy mode. 

 

Hear hear!

[Karasu_Browarszky]

21 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Btw you can expect WG to drive on with these subs, it ain't gonna go away.

 

I'm more than familiar with this company from playing WoT's over the years and their approach is that typical pig-headed stubborn east-EU Belarusian attitude which is they will conceive an idea, pour lots of time and effort into it, never actually consider the ramifications of it, add it, discover it to be very very unpleasant with the playerbase and not suitable for the game and yet STILL drive on with it, never ever accept that it was a bad idea or unsuitable for the game with this "It's fine, we'll fix it later" bs attitude and just keep adding patch after patch until eventually that toxic new creation becomes somewhat "acceptable" though it never truly is, just like CV's, SPG and WV's to mention just a few. 

 

Yes, it's the old maxim.. if the people (read players) disagree with you, get rid of them and swap them for new people (read players again).

[MrWastee]

basically same as with cv's:

do i think they have a place ingame and in randoms? absolutely!

do i think the current iterations fit, in regard to how they should be implemented ingame? absolutely not lol!

[CptBarney]

Essentially with CV's no, since weegee can't balance either class (looking back on their 7-9 years of balans). Better games do either class more justice. Regardless if they were kept in co-op, operations, events and escort maybe another game mode they would be fine. 

 

Oh well, models are great regardless.