ASW weapons

[Ubertron_X]

Is there a general logic about which ships / classes / nations do have ASW weapons at their disposal or is this largely based on individual decisions?

 

For example I seem to have noticed that most light cruisers and DDs have them, but when I looked up the German heavy cruisers, e.g. Prinz Eugen and Hindenburg also have depth charges, however Graf Spee and Ägir don't. Or taking a look at the IJN BBs, Ignis Purgatio (Amagi clone), Hizen and Yamato all have ASW planes, whereas Musashi does not have them.

 

If it is largely individual it will be a hell lot to remember when playing subs...

[lovelacebeer]

I cannot say I have seen any pattern I get the impression WG just: 

[Trench4nt]

Vor 36 Minuten, Ubertron_X sagte:

Is there a general logic about which ships / classes / nations do have ASW weapons at their disposal or is this largely based on individual decisions?

 

For example I seem to have noticed that most light cruisers and DDs have them, but when I looked up the German heavy cruisers, e.g. Prinz Eugen and Hindenburg also have depth charges, however Graf Spee and Ägir don't. Or taking a look at the IJN BBs, Ignis Purgatio (Amagi clone), Hizen and Yamato all have ASW planes, whereas Musashi does not have them.

 

If it is largely individual it will be a hell lot to remember when playing subs...

 

It seems - as a general rule of thumb - that long distance ships have ASW whereas brawling ships... not. Which does not really make sense.

[BrusilovX]

1 minute ago, Trench4nt said:

Which does not really make sense.

Is anyone surprised by that?

[Yedwy]

8 minutes ago, BrusilovX said:

Is anyone surprised by that?

Nope

 

I mean in WG devs pink unicorn farting rainbows world subs will flank around to deal with the campers in the back and bring motion to the game, so the cruisers in the back get stuff to deal with them…

 

Us who actually play the game however know what will actually happen IRL, as in subs will sit submerged beneath their DDs or at an anlge bit off and dump homing torps of anyone stoopid enough to try to push or make any tactical move od any kind resulting in even more behind the spawn camping…

[Ubertron_X]

I made I quick tech tree survey and the ASW logic seems partially clear now. Note that single exceptions do exist though (e.g. see Gorizia or Musashi).

 

DD generally seem to have access to ASW weapons.

CL have acccess to ASW weapons more often than not, with the notible exceptions of USN CL, MN CL and NL CL.

BC usually do not feature ASW weapons.

BB and CA can have ASW weapons, but it is depending on their respective nations (e.g. RN BB or KM CA).

 

IJN BB Fuso+
IJN BC/CA/CL none
IJN DD Mutsuki+ / Minekaze+

 

USN BB New Mexico+
USN BC/CA/CL none
USN DD Nicholas+

 

SN BB none
SN BC/CA none
SN CL Kotovsky+
SN DD Podvoisky+

 

KM BB none
KM BC none (Graf Spee apparently is counted as a BC)
KM CA/CL Königsberg+
KM DD T-22+

 

RN BB Queen Elizabeth+
RN CA none
RN CL Emerald+
RN DD Acasta+

 

MN BB Normandie+
MN CA/CL none
MN DD Jaguar+

 

RM BB none
RM CA/CL Montecuccoli+ (notable exeptions are Genova and Gorizia)
RM DD yes? (Paolo has)

 

PAN DD Jianwei+
PAN CL yes? (Huanghe has)

 

EUR DD Visby+

 

NL CA/CL none
NL DD yes

 

CW DD yes
CW CL yes

[arttuperkunas]

The Okhotnik is apparently the only relevant DD in the game that does not have ASW weapons. Because it's so OP.

[BrusilovX]

I was wondering if there is a list somewhere that shows the direction that the DDs fire the depth charges?

 

I started earlier with the Pan-European and the Halland and Smalland both fire the depth charges forward (that may be due to whatever is on front deck).  I'm not sure about the Ostergottland.

 

The other DDs seem to fire them sideways which tends to end up behind the ship.

 

So, the way to approach attacking a sub seems to vary.

[Hakssor]

10 hours ago, Ubertron_X said:

I made I quick tech tree survey and the ASW logic seems partially clear now. Note that single exceptions do exist though (e.g. see Gorizia or Musashi).

 

DD generally seem to have access to ASW weapons.

CL have acccess to ASW weapons more often than not, with the notible exceptions of USN CL, MN CL and NL CL.

BC usually do not feature ASW weapons.

BB and CA can have ASW weapons, but it is depending on their respective nations (e.g. RN BB or KM CA).

 

IJN BB Fuso+
IJN BC/CA/CL none
IJN DD Mutsuki+ / Minekaze+

 

USN BB New Mexico+
USN BC/CA/CL none
USN DD Nicholas+

 

SN BB none
SN BC/CA none
SN CL Kotovsky+
SN DD Podvoisky+

 

KM BB none
KM BC none (Graf Spee apparently is counted as a BC)
KM CA/CL Königsberg+
KM DD T-22+

 

RN BB Queen Elizabeth+
RN CA none
RN CL Emerald+
RN DD Acasta+

 

MN BB Normandie+
MN CA/CL none
MN DD Jaguar+

 

RM BB none
RM CA/CL Montecuccoli+ (notable exeptions are Genova and Gorizia)
RM DD yes? (Paolo has)

 

PAN DD Jianwei+
PAN CL yes? (Huanghe has)

 

EUR DD Visby+

 

NL CA/CL none
NL DD yes

 

CW DD yes
CW CL yes

Massa, Georgia, Ohio, Jean Bart, Thunderer don't get ASW although their lines do. Along with Musashi and Gorizia ofc. 

Now tell me you don't see a pattern here. 

 

[Verblonde]

2 hours ago, BrusilovX said:

I started earlier with the Pan-European and the Halland and Smalland both fire the depth charges forward (that may be due to whatever is on front deck).  I'm not sure about the Ostergottland.

It's perhaps worth noting that Friesland has two launchers firing forward (six bombs in all), which seem to make her a fairly nasty ASW platform.

 

As far as I can tell, the bombs seem to land of the order of 2 km in front of you, but that could be significantly plus/minus. Edit: that's on the basis of shooting at a known sub about 2 km away (works with Smaland too), with adjustments needed for relative speed/heading.

Ragnar's ASW rockets also fire forwards.

 

Edit: Ragnar gets four bombs, whilst Halland/Smaland appear to get eight apiece.

 

Edit: Oster gets a dozen bombs (only one charge) fired to each side from towards the stern (so, a carpet behind her)...

[Verblonde]

Additional note: Vampire II's Limbo launcher fires three rockets for - apparently - five bombs (with two charges) astern, if that's helpful to anyone...

[ThePopesHolyFinger]

Has anyone looked at differences between tiers?
I've only looked at the T5 & T6 ships I have. 37 total, but 15 of them have no anti-sub measures.

Ships without ASW measures (depth-charges or air-drop)
Furutaka
Kongo

Aoba

Marblehead

Oklahoma

Pyotr Velikiy

Izmail

Graf Spee

Hawkins

Devonshire

Emile Bertin

Bretagne

Cavour

Andrea Doria

Celebes

If weegee decide to implement subs while 33% of my ships have no counter to subs, I'm going to have to question which brain cell they shared, and how drunk it was, when they decided this would be anything more than cretinously stupid
 

[Verblonde]

4 minutes ago, DB2212 said:

If weegee decide to implement subs while 33% of my ships have no counter to subs, I'm going to have to question which brain cell they shared, and how drunk it was, when they decided this would be anything more than cretinously stupid

To be honest, and slightly to my surprise, this is the only thing about submarines so far that is wholly unacceptable from my perspective*; I imagine they'll change it eventually though - it may be the equivalent of whole tranches of ships (DDs mainly) being entirely ed by the initial iteration of reeworked CVs...

 

*I'm probably missing something though.

[Procrastes]

On 8/13/2021 at 2:16 AM, DB2212 said:

If weegee decide to implement subs while 33% of my ships have no counter to subs, I'm going to have to question which brain cell they shared, and how drunk it was, when they decided this would be anything more than cretinously stupid

If WeeGee decides to implement subs while 33% of your ships have no counter to them, it's because WeeGee wants you to stop playing your old favourite premiums and buy some shiny new ones. This doesn't make WeeGee stupid, only greedy. Please note that you have my sincere sympathy, since I am in much the same situation myself.

 

There is of course a point when greed becomes so overbearing that it transforms into stupidity. Wargaming may just have reached that point by now, as far as I'm concerned. I have no problem with paying good money in a fair trade, but Wargaming and fairness keep little company together these days.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

On 8/12/2021 at 12:50 PM, Yedwy said:

WG devs pink unicorn farting rainbows world

Flagged as: Accurate.

[mtm78]

2 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

There is of course a point when greed becomes so overbearing that it transforms into stupidity.

 

Greed becomes stupid when enough people like you and me actually stop playing the game ;) Even if just for a short while, until you think they shown something worth coming back for? That's the only way to actually make it stupidity on their side. 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

On 8/13/2021 at 12:50 AM, Verblonde said:

Additional note: Vampire II's Limbo launcher fires three rockets for - apparently - five bombs (with two charges) astern, if that's helpful to anyone...

This is actyually really confusing information to me 

[meuhbat]

They want some ships to specialize in sub hunt, and some to avoid them. New roles, new balancing... very frustrating if you don't have asw but those ships supposedly have other strength, at least it should be accounted for in the balancing.

I'll play only DDs for now.

[Verblonde]

16 minutes ago, Europizza said:

This is actyually really confusing information to me 

It confused the hell out of me too, when I was initially checking.

 

When I'm trying things out in Coop for the first time (or if I've forgotten), I usually check things like numbers of charges, numbers of bombs, and so on.

 

The number of bombs is - I think - how many underwater explosions are ultimately produced by every charge (single press of the G key); in the case of Vampire II, it's five. However, to get those five explosions, the Limbo launcher fires three rockets.

 

I can't work out if the rockets are actually directly connected to where the explosions are generated though (or if it really matters), but I haven't played a huge number of anti-submarine battles as I find them rather tedious much of the time...

[Procrastes]

On 8/13/2021 at 12:19 AM, Verblonde said:

It's perhaps worth noting that Friesland has two launchers firing forward (six bombs in all), which seem to make her a fairly nasty ASW platform.

 

As far as I can tell, the bombs seem to land of the order of 2 km in front of you, but that could be significantly plus/minus. Edit: that's on the basis of shooting at a known sub about 2 km away (works with Smaland too), with adjustments needed for relative speed/heading.

Ragnar's ASW rockets also fire forwards.

 

Edit: Ragnar gets four bombs, whilst Halland/Smaland appear to get eight apiece.

 

Edit: Oster gets a dozen bombs (only one charge) fired to each side from towards the stern (so, a carpet behind her)...

How nice that we got those forward-firing launchers on the ships that are equipped with them on the models. I was hoping for it, but I must say I wasn't really expecting it. Since I didn't know about this until now, I missed out on being able to test them in Co-op. Or are there still subs in that gane mode?

 

Incidentally, how are you supposed to aim accurately with forward-firing launchers, without having any kind of aiming retice? With the ordinary launchers I just sail out a bit in front of the sub and press 'G'; it has worked pretty well so far.

[Panocek]

7 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

How nice that we got those forward-firing launchers on the ships that are equipped with them on the models. I was hoping for it, but I must say I wasn't really expecting it. Since I didn't know about this until now, I missed out on being able to test them in Co-op. Or are there still subs in that gane mode?

 

Incidentally, how are you supposed to aim accurately with forward-firing launchers, without having any kind of aiming retice? With the ordinary launchers I just sail out a bit in front of the sub and press 'G'; it has worked pretty well so far.

ASROCs like those on Friesland/Halland twins/Nevsky cannot be aimed, they just fire forward and projectiles land +-2km in front of you. Yes, my first attempt as ASW with Halland was usual "get over enemy sub and press G for GG", only to notice rockets going in front of me  as I haven't expected WG to actually model them. And they are still branded as "depth charges" too

and yes, you can encounter subs in Coop and you can practice ASW on those.

[Verblonde]

20 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

Incidentally, how are you supposed to aim accurately with forward-firing launchers, without having any kind of aiming retice?

As @Panocek says, they seem to land *roughly* 2 km in front of you; the way I've been using them (exclusively against bots so far) is roughly along the following lines:

• Fire your first charge as soon as it loads, if you don't have a handle on the time lag between launching and the explosions going off; it'll also give you a visual sense of roughly where the things land. You'll have reloaded by the time you make proper contact with opposing submarines.
• Use the target submarine as your range marker; with adjustments for relative speeds and headings, when it's at 2 km you'll probably land at about the right distance.
• You seem to want to drive your DD a bit differently, compared to the 'chuck 'em off the stern' DC boats; generally speaking, turn away as soon as your rockets are away (unless you're chasing him from astern) - if you actually run over the submarine, it'll take longer to turn around and get back into firing position again.
• I don't have a handle yet on how much RNG there is in the drop pattern of the rockets; for instance, it looks like things like Halland/Smaland/Ragnar with their inline (or single in the last case) launchers fire essentially straight ahead, while Friesland (two launchers side by side) *may* cover more of an arc to your front, but it could easily be RNG.

[tappo91]

My Leone seems to not have depth charges. I tought it was a DD…

[mtm78]

Just now, tappo91 said:

My Leone seems to not have depth charges. I tought it was a DD…

Did you pay enough doubloons for it to have ASW? 

[tappo91]

Just now, mtm78 said:

Did you pay enough doubloons for it to have ASW? 

Fortunately, I found it in a container