CVs & Subs in WoWS together

[Aethervoxx]

As WoWS has ship classes to play in the historical period of when Subs & CVs became recognised classes of ships themselves, I support the idea of CVs & Subs being in WoWS together.

Do I agree with the type of CV that we have in WoWS at present?  No. Personally, I would prefer the older RTS style of CV play.

I think the player jury on CVs is split into three - ones who don't want CVs at all, others who prefer the current reworked CV play & the last who would prefer the RTS style of CV play.

Do I agree with Subs in WoWS? Yes. Subs are still a 'work in progress' (apparently) so the jury is still out on how they will be.

I think the player jury on Subs will split into the similar three - ones who don't want Subs at all, others who like the Subs & ofc the last who will clamor for some kind of alteration to current Sub play.

CVs & Subs (or Subs & CVs) will be what WG wants them to be. It will be what it is (ultimately). What will the player be able to do? Simply vote with their feet (either way). 

For now, I will continue to play (battle) hoping I can sink, in random battle, some 'certain' players (well, sink as many enemy as I can)    

 

 

                           

 

[Yedwy]

As I Said when I first saw the re*ardness of the homing torps ignoring torp belts - I am not playing against that, ever… I really like this game but if they implement the subs like that i am gone, period…

[black_falcon120]

3 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

As I Said when I first saw the re*ardness of the homing torps ignoring torp belts - I am not playing against that, ever… I really like this game but if they implement the subs like that i am gone, period…

I just don’t find homing torpedoes fun to play against.  Destroyers are fine as there is counter play but subs just feel like they are hard counter to any ships which don’t have depth charges or intel data on where the subs are.

3 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

[gabberworld]

6 hours ago, black_falcon120 said:

I just don’t find homing torpedoes fun to play against.  Destroyers are fine as there is counter play but subs just feel like they are hard counter to any ships which don’t have depth charges or intel data on where the subs are.

does your game play even counts? i mean by looking your stats you almost like not play this at all anyway

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 6 Stunden, Yedwy sagte:

As I Said when I first saw the re*ardness of the homing torps ignoring torp belts - I am not playing against that, ever… I really like this game but if they implement the subs like that i am gone, period…

T2 divisions are the future! 

[gabberworld]

5 minutes ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

T2 divisions are the future! 

well yeah, you have point at there, why you need play at tier 10  if you can have same fun experience at tier 2

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 3 Minuten, gabberworld sagte:

same

Same? If that would be the case, I would stop playing. T10 is a sh'tshow. T2 is gold, with real ships, fast battles, no camping, no planes, subs, air strikes, gimmicks etc. - it's FUN.

[gabberworld]

12 minutes ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

Same? If that would be the case, I would stop playing. T10 is a sh'tshow. T2 is gold, with real ships, fast battles, no camping, no planes, subs, air strikes, gimmicks etc. - it's FUN.

 

well its same if you can pump out in TIER 2 same fun out. you dont need for that the tier 10. thats what im saying.

 

yeah i know difference about T2 and T10 gameplay. but we talking here about Fun

[totally_potato]

7 hours ago, black_falcon120 said:

I just don’t find homing torpedoes fun to play against.  Destroyers are fine as there is counter play but subs just feel like they are hard counter to any ships which don’t have depth charges or intel data on where the subs are.

well homing torps are better vs DDs than vs BBs apparently so idk

[Yosha_AtaIante]

8 hours ago, Yedwy said:

As I Said when I first saw the re*ardness of the homing torps ignoring torp belts - I am not playing against that, ever… I really like this game but if they implement the subs like that i am gone, period…

I hope you are honest about this. this is the only way to protest against WG after all. So many people said they would quit yet this forum is still populated. It's time to make those threats of quitting real

[Miscommunication_dept]

Subs a big part of the reason I’m playing more CVs now. 
 

WG don’t seem to care about the other classes.

[The_Chiv]

CV's and Sub's are probably the two most decisive classes to be introduced to the game. 

 

In the rts days CV play was very lop sided. If you had a good cv you won 90% of the time. Problem is the amount of good cv players tended to be about 10% of the cv population. The majority sadly were not good and this caused tons of issues. During the RTS we still had every class able to contribute and carry. To many of us this was a golden age. On average we would have a cv game like 1 out of 20 games, after the rework though it is closer to 4/5. The new mechanics of cv turned classic AA ships into utter trash heaps. Those with Atlanta know what I am talking about. No longer could these aa ships provide any real support and in fact the act of trying exposed them and their bad armor led to many of them just dying. So AA cruisers DIED. WG did nothing to rectify this. Over time WG did turn down cv's rather then buffing other ships to act as a counter balance and completely ignoring the problem all together.

 

Now we have subs coming in a few hours. Subs much like CV's were asymmetrical warfare, but they were generally not used in combined arms combat. There are some exceptions such as pearl harbor with the midget subs, and the battle of midway. In both of these cases the subs were unable to cause damage. In the case of midway however the sub there was hunted down by a DD and in the process of chasing said sub the dive bombers of the USN Strike force were able to use the DD' as a means to guide them to their objective so I guess not completely useless. Subs shined in ww2 in 4 areas. Merchant raiding, Surveillance, Surprise ambush attacks, and picking off stragglers. Subs were slow both on top and below water. They had to coordinate with intelligence an lurk in areas waiting for targets to come to them and then they struck. All this said what we have in WOWS is nothing like the environment that a sub could effectively operate in. WG knows this. So wg solution was to buff subs to ungodly proportions turning them in to fragile glass cannons. While other classes of ships both real and paper are subject to much of the real world reloads, speeds, armor thickness, turret traverse, etc; subs are not.

 

Now many of you have tried the sub game play in pts. I have not. This is in part to the fact that I still have a bit of angst over the cv rework and how WG screwed us over with that and the fact that I wanted to enter it with no bias, sadly looking at the dev blog about subs sort of killed the whole bias aspect of my choice. The game play as many have said is boring. While many can easily look at the stats and think wow I can really do some cool stuff with this, the reality is that Subs will suffer the same issue most dds suffer. If you are too aggressive you die, if you are too passive you lose.  Most however will see subs for what they are however. Subs are just another tool to punish pushing and reinforces the camping passive aspect of bbs. 

 

Is this bad? Im not sure. I can see many scenarios where subs are the death of this game. I can also see many scenarios where subs add another layer and a check against certain steamrolls. Sadly this will be a time will tell sort of thing similar to the early days of the cv rework. Yes I know WG screwed up the cv rework and my faith in their ability to do something with subs is...LACKING. Lets be honest Lesta studios does not care about balancing. All they care about it pushing out new content. I have a suspicion about this being some what tied to money laundering, however I have 0 proof so Im not willing to make that claim.

 

All in all WG is painting themselves in a corner and it is not a very nice one. There are many possible solutions to this problem but WG has lost the ability to problem solve or even have common sense a long time ago so short of a change in management and or studio I have 0 faith in this project. Mind you I also had 0 faith in the German Heavy DD line and actually found it somewhat enjoyable. for the 2 weeks I played it. Now Elbing sits as a port queen. with the 40 some odd other t10.

[SodaBubbles]

44 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Subs a big part of the reason I’m playing more CVs now. 
 

WG don’t seem to care about the other classes.

Subs are going to give CVs a run for their money as the most coddled class of WOWs.

[Cippalippus]

The introduction of subs is the worst idea ever.

[Lexxmac]

Well it´s very simple do Sub´s bring any fun and engaging Gameplay to all the Players?

Do Subs help in any way to get more deph in the Game ?

Is´there an interesting counter play to Subs?

Do Subs make the Play for your Team or the Enemy Team any better?

Do Subs help to get a more fluent Anti Camping Gameplay?

Do Sub´s "punish" you if you make a mistake?

Do Sub´s not bother you if you "play right"?

 

 

There you go if you are bored you can change the word Sub with CV in my text....

 

---

[Yedwy]

1 hour ago, Yosha_nai said:

I hope you are honest about this. this is the only way to protest against WG after all. So many people said they would quit yet this forum is still populated. It's time to make those threats of quitting real

I am, if they add the subs in this form as the new class across the gamemodes i am uninstalling the game, there is no point in beeing fodder for the next WG pet project that will be buffed to ridiculous levels to be popular enough so the mid level management can parade around their excel sheets in board meetings

[HassenderZerhacker]

as I see it, WG could solve two problems at the same time:  they should put subs and CV in a separate matchmaking and let them play against themselves. problem solved. WoWS is great again.

[KurtVonSteiger]

Most stat obsessed players will automatically gravitate to the most effective ships/types meaning that they will know how to use same to maximum effect.

Joe ordinare types such as myself will find attempting to push will be an even quicker trip to the bottom as threat overload will deny any effective counter - trying to dodge shells and air attacks AND stupidly fast homing torpedo's means that avoiding one just gets you hit by the other.

 

And let's not forget that some of these subs are faster underwater than a fair few DD's and Cruisers!

[black_falcon120]

3 hours ago, gabberworld said:

does your game play even counts? i mean by looking your stats you almost like not play this at all anyway

I played a fair amount on the test server

[HassenderZerhacker]

22 minutes ago, KurtVonSteiger said:

And let's not forget that some of these subs are faster underwater than a fair few DD's and Cruisers!

lol

I didn't know that!

must have been another of these "popularity balance" decisions

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 8 Minuten, HassenderZerhacker sagte:

lol

I didn't know that!

must have been another of these "popularity balance" decisions

Alfa submarines, nuclear powered.

[The_Chiv]

So played a few games i co op. Every thing I killed was pushing hard. Still did more as a Aigle  then I did as a sub and that boat sucks.

 

[HassenderZerhacker]

1 minute ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

Alfa submarines, nuclear powered.

are we still talking about WoWS ?

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

Im wondering about the future MM. How many ships of each class will be in each game? Will it be like:

 

1 CV

3 BBs

2 Cruisers

3 DDs

3 Subs? (because this is the newest cashgrab)

 

If it will be like this then it will be 5 ships visibel on each team in the majority of the game?! How fun is that? Those 5 will get all focus since Subs wont be interested in fighting other subs and DDs is usually not that interested in fighting other DDs since its either suicide or just a even trade and no one wants that, and im guessing (as a DD main) most sane DD players wont be that interested in trying to find and fight enemy subs since it will be suicide or even trade at best. So these poor 5 players will just get crapped on and will have zero counterplay for those 5-6 ships hiding in the sky, under water, or just outside detection range.

 

So probably more long range sniping from BBs, more long range HE spam directed at BBs from cruisers and even less playing for caps/objectives and less team support. Forget about trying to push in with a cruiser or BB, you will get devastated by 95 knot homing torps, torp soups from the DDs, firespam from cruisers, nuked across the map from BBs or just cross dropped by CVs. 

[Camperdown]

2 minutes ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

Im wondering about the future MM. How many ships of each class will be in each game? Will it be like:

 

1 CV

3 BBs

2 Cruisers

3 DDs

3 Subs? (because this is the newest cashgrab)

 

If it will be like this then it will be 5 ships visibel on each team in the majority of the game?! How fun is that? Those 5 will get all focus since Subs wont be interested in fighting other subs and DDs is usually not that interested in fighting other DDs since its either suicide or just a even trade and no one wants that, and im guessing (as a DD main) most sane DD players wont be that interested in trying to find and fight enemy subs since it will be suicide or even trade at best. So these poor 5 players will just get crapped on and will have zero counterplay for those 5-6 ships hiding in the sky, under water, or just outside detection range.

 

So probably more long range sniping from BBs, more long range HE spam directed at BBs from cruisers and even less playing for caps/objectives and less team support. Forget about trying to push in with a cruiser or BB, you will get devastated by 95 knot homing torps, torp soups from the DDs, firespam from cruisers, nuked across the map from BBs or just cross dropped by CVs. 

Don't agree with your assessment of DDs.

My main goal in DD is finding and destroying enemy DDs. Best games are if I kill dem all . Ofc that does not mean suiciding or equal trades but making sure you have as much unfair advantage as you can