What's with the GRONINGEN?

[callumwaw]

Maybe I'm missing something, but what is the deal with the Groningen?

 

WG said: "

We've added destroyer  IX Groningen to the Dutch Tech Tree. She belongs to the same series as  IX Friesland and both ships have identical characteristics. The new ship will be available for 1,000,000 Free XP in the Tech Tree. Alternatively, you can grab her for 19,300 Doubloons in the Armory.

Until the end of Update 0.10.7, all owners of  IX Friesland will be able to replace the ship with  IX Groningen free of charge in the "Inventory" section. More info on how to exchange the ships will be available in the game client.

[Onsterfelijke]

You can buy it for 1 M free Exp as the Friesland or buy it for 19300 Dubloons OR you swap your Friesland for a Groningen.

 

The Ship is a copy so should the same as the original.

[callumwaw]

OK, so the only actual change is that the Groningen's Dutch, and Friesland is Pan-European, right?  If I want to train Dutch captains with it, I change it to the Groningen. I want to be able to train Pan-European captains with it, I do nothing.  Is this right? 

[lafeel]

On 8/10/2021 at 12:47 PM, callumwaw said:

OK, so the only actual change is that the Groningen's Dutch, and Friesland is Pan-European, right?  If I want to train Dutch captains with it, I change it to the Groningen. I want to be able to train Pan-European captains with it, I do nothing.  Is this right? 

Correct.

[Ocsimano18]

3 minutes ago, callumwaw said:

OK, so the only actual change is that the Groningen's Dutch, and Friesland is Pan-European, right?  If I want to train Dutch captains with it, I change it to the Groningen. I want to be able to train Pan-European captains with it, I do nothing.  Is this right? 

Or you use a 21pt Euro/any other captain to train for any nation.

[Verblonde]

6 minutes ago, Onsterfelijke said:

The Ship is a copy so should the same as the original.

It'll be worth checking if the new version has the 'may be nerfed' label; as it's a flat-out clone, it's possible that it won't, but every other new premium (from Flandre onwards, I think) is tagged as nerfable.

 

Friesland isn't noted for being OP, as far as I know, but never underestimate WG's propensity for Richard moves.

[Panocek]

10 minutes ago, Onsterfelijke said:

You can buy it for 1 M free Exp as the Friesland or buy it for 19300 Dubloons OR you swap your Friesland for a Groningen.

 

The Ship is a copy so should the same as the original.

Except Groningen will get "can be nerfed" tag. Which intrinsically makes her inferior clone of a Friesland, whom still may be nerfed, but that requires WG putting game on its head... again.

[callumwaw]

Good points, all this.  I also wonder about the captain: If I decide to go for the Groningen (doubtful), will the captain I have on the Friesland become Dutch, too? Probably not, but they're not mentioning this, are they?

[Ocsimano18]

8 minutes ago, callumwaw said:

Good points, all this.  I also wonder about the captain: If I decide to go for the Groningen (doubtful), will the captain I have on the Friesland become Dutch, too? Probably not, but they're not mentioning this, are they?

Nope

[lafeel]

28 minutes ago, callumwaw said:

Good points, all this.  I also wonder about the captain: If I decide to go for the Groningen (doubtful), will the captain I have on the Friesland become Dutch, too? Probably not, but they're not mentioning this, are they?

They actually did say, and your answer is no, he won't.

[Purnylla]

1 hour ago, callumwaw said:

OK, so the only actual change is that the Groningen's Dutch, and Friesland is Pan-European, right?  If I want to train Dutch captains with it, I change it to the Groningen. I want to be able to train Pan-European captains with it, I do nothing.  Is this right? 

 

Pretty much. WG originally planned to move the Friesland to NL nation, but that upset some people, so they're keeping it to EU nation, but since that also upset some people they've created a clone.

 

I'm keeping my Friesland as it's the only EU ship I enjoy, and could be useful for any missions that require EU ships. 

I'm also buying Groningen as I'm Dutch and I love gunboats. :)

 

[Strapps]

On 8/10/2021 at 1:54 PM, Verblonde said:

It'll be worth checking if the new version has the 'may be nerfed' label; as it's a flat-out clone, it's possible that it won't, but every other new premium (from Flandre onwards, I think) is tagged as nerfable.

 

On 8/10/2021 at 1:56 PM, Panocek said:

Except Groningen will get "can be nerfed" tag. Which intrinsically makes her inferior clone of a Friesland, whom still may be nerfed, but that requires WG putting game on its head... again.

 

I may be missing something (poor observation is a common factor in my battles) but the two Groningen offers in the premium shop do not appear to have a 'nerfable' caveat (Admiral pack, regular). 

[Verblonde]

57 minutes ago, BrinklyWollox said:

 

 

I may be missing something (poor observation is a common factor in my battles) but the two Groningen offers in the premium shop do not appear to have a 'nerfable' caveat (Admiral pack, regular). 

I don't think you are - I didn't see it either when I checked yesterday (and forgot to post); maybe WG just wanted to avoid *another* row on top of submarines?

Although they then did go and nerf Okhotnik, so it may just be an oversight...

[VonBlund]

En 10/8/2021 en 13:56, Panocek dijo:

Except Groningen will get "can be nerfed" tag. Which intrinsically makes her inferior clone of a Friesland, whom still may be nerfed, but that requires WG putting game on its head... again.

At this point I have little to zero trust on WG, any ship can be nerfed in the name of balance even if it doesn't have a "can be nerfed" tag (ie. Thunderer).

[fumtu]

32 minutes ago, VonBlund said:

At this point I have little to zero trust on WG, any ship can be nerfed in the name of balance even if it doesn't have a "can be nerfed" tag (ie. Thunderer).

 

WG never said that they would never nerf Thunderer, quite opposite. For your information, all special premiums, or to be more precise all T10 premium, can be nerfed and that was stated a long ago.

[Zigiran]

Groningen and Friesland are not premium ships, they are special ships.

Special ships have always been subject to the "may be changed if needed"

 

Premium ships were not subject to the "may be changed if needed" rule, however these days WG is avoiding that by including the new "can be changed if needed" tag to new premium ships.

[Verblonde]

3 minutes ago, Zigiran said:

Groningen and Friesland are not premium ships, they are special ships.

I'm afraid that's incorrect - all the T9 premiums are 'full' premiums.

 

Conversely, none of the T10 'premiums' are full premiums (unless ARP Yamato is different, and she can *definitely* be nerfed), they're merely 'special' and since the first one, it's always been made clear that they can be nerfed.

[Strapps]

1 minute ago, Zigiran said:

Groningen and Friesland are not premium ships, they are special ships.

Special ships have always been subject to the "may be changed if needed"

 

Nope, we had this discussion when the Groningen/Friesland swap was first mooted by WG. Friesland is a full premium and was available for purchase with cash without the caveat and that can't be added retrospectively.

 

3 minutes ago, Zigiran said:

Premium ships were not subject to the "may be changed if needed" rule, however these days WG is avoiding that by including the new "can be changed if needed" tag to new premium ships.

 

Also nope, at least as far as the Groningen is concerned. The 'can be changed' tag isn't in the sale pages I linked to earlier but other new premiums such as the Borodino and Constellation do have it. It really looks as though WG made Groningen an unadulterated copy of Friesland.

 

For me, it's great news. The nerfable caveat was the only sticking point on my decision of whether to swap my Friesland. I have the Blys for training Pan-EU captains and hadn't built a captain specifically for Friesland so I won't lose anything by swapping. That gives me a Dutch premium for captain training, meaning I can take my time over deciding how grind-hard I want to play for the D7P marathon.

 

Though I might take a couple of screenshots of the current sale pages before I swap just in case the description gets updated later ... 

[fumtu]

1 hour ago, Zigiran said:

Groningen and Friesland are not premium ships, they are special ships.

 

Nope, they are both full premiums, just like all other T9. Only T10 premiums and ARP ships are considered as special.

[Purnylla]

I don't think the "special" or "premium" tag has anything to do with it. All tier 10s are marked as "special" but they seem to have the exact same bonuses as their lower tier "premium" counterparts.

 

Friesland was available for purchase for doubloons, just like Groningen currently is. If they don't add a "may be changed if needed" text to a ship that's for sale, they can't change it. 

 

IIRC, the ARP Yamato had a text that it'd follow the regular Yamato, so it can be changed if Yamato got changed. 

 

Thunderer could easily be nerfed because, AFAIK, it never was available for purchase. Just like any other lower tier "premium" that was never available for purchase and only obtainable for ingame resources or through events. 

 

I don't think they could easily change Puerto Rico, despite officially not being classified as a "premium" ship. I never really understood the difference between "premium" and "special" ships anyways. According to https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Premium_ships there doesn't seem to be much difference, expect tier X being automatically classified as "special" instead of "premium", and tier X ships having their credit modifier on their permacamo, whereas lower tier premiums have their credit modifier built in the ship. 

[Lootboxer]

1 hour ago, Zigiran said:

Groningen and Friesland are not premium ships, they are special ships.

Special ships have always been subject to the "may be changed if needed"

 

Premium ships were not subject to the "may be changed if needed" rule, however these days WG is avoiding that by including the new "can be changed if needed" tag to new premium ships.

 

9 minutes ago, Purnylla said:

Friesland was available for purchase for doubloons, just like Groningen currently is. If they don't add a "may be changed if needed" text to a ship that's for sale, they can't change it. 

 

It all doesn't matter as they will do as they wish anyway ignoring every shitstorm.

They nerfed premium ship Missouri for old owners so now despite of "permament" mission now she makes 10-15% less with 50% extra cash camo and all economy and special flags. But it's ok by WG because naked ship is about the same

 

 

[fumtu]

16 minutes ago, Purnylla said:

All tier 10s are marked as "special" but they seem to have the exact same bonuses as their lower tier "premium" counterparts.

 

No they are not, T10 premiums have same credits earnings as regular T10 ships. Only difference is that T10 premiums have only half after battle  cost of regulars, 45k to 90k. T9 premiums earns more credits than any T10 premium.

[Purnylla]

8 minutes ago, fumtu said:

 

No they are not, T10 premiums have same credits earnings as regular T10 ships. 

The ship itself indeed, but T10 premiums come with a free permacamo that gives extra credits. 

[YabbaCoe]

4 hours ago, BrinklyWollox said:

 

 

I may be missing something (poor observation is a common factor in my battles) but the two Groningen offers in the premium shop do not appear to have a 'nerfable' caveat (Admiral pack, regular). 

Friesland was sold without this "can be changed", so as Groningen is exact clone of Friesland, she also doesn't have this line.

 

2 hours ago, VonBlund said:

At this point I have little to zero trust on WG, any ship can be nerfed in the name of balance even if it doesn't have a "can be nerfed" tag (ie. Thunderer).

Thunderer wasn't sold for money and as it was obtainable only for ingame currency, it was always a subject of balance changes.

[koliber_1984]

Just made a swap, I don't need 2 same ships in different nations. Now all my Duchies are united . Great new feature about are that front-deployed depth charges, all this process looks awesome