Pobeda Planes (or russian planes in general?)

[BackToHarbor]

So I was wondering if anyone else noticed that the planes on the Pobeda are an absolute nightmare to shoot down. (Not that many ships have good AA to begin with)
I was playing in my AA Mino Setup before and was matched against one. Sadly I don't have the the exact numbers from that battle but I couldn't stop him from charging me twice, as an AA Mino. He was happily going after me whilst every other Tier 8 CV (or even Tier 10s) wouldn't ever want to touch my AA bubble.

I noticed that when the planes were charging they took next to no damage.

 

I know we don't have any stats or numbers yet, but I sure hope that these won't stay as they are at the moment. 

[Miscommunication_dept]

Well on the rework CVs we’re made so they would always get one strike off  but good AA might prevent a second.

They also made the attacking flight return to safe altitude much faster than recalled planes.

 

Soviet CVs take full advantage of these two things.

 

[Vbeest]

4 hours ago, BackToHarbor said:

 charging me twice, as an AA Mino.

Wow, he was a cheater. Charging twice in Soviet CV, where there is only one attack per squadron possible ..

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 4 Stunden, BackToHarbor sagte:

So I was wondering if anyone else noticed that the planes on the Pobeda are an absolute nightmare to shoot down.

Now you know why the technologically advanced Soviet/Russian CV and their sophisticated ship-borne planes have dominated the oceans for more than a century.

 

[hellhound666]

it is a historically known fact that soviet cv planes were extremely durable while defending leningrad and also in the battle of kursk ... so it is ok that your aa mino could do very little against it

[159Hunter]

4 hours ago, BackToHarbor said:

So I was wondering if anyone else noticed that the planes on the Pobeda are an absolute nightmare to shoot down. (Not that many ships have good AA to begin with)
I was playing in my AA Mino Setup before and was matched against one. Sadly I don't have the the exact numbers from that battle but I couldn't stop him from charging me twice, as an AA Mino. He was happily going after me whilst every other Tier 8 CV (or even Tier 10s) wouldn't ever want to touch my AA bubble.

I noticed that when the planes were charging they took next to no damage.

 

I know we don't have any stats or numbers yet, but I sure hope that these won't stay as they are at the moment. 

Do you still have the replay? Your text is vague at best...

[ghostbuster_]

5 hours ago, BackToHarbor said:

 every other Tier 8 CV (or even Tier 10s) wouldn't ever want to touch my AA bubble.

AA bubble? What AA bubble? There is no AA bubble anymore. Thats gone with the hilarious CV rework.

 

But yeah, russian planes which are supposed to be vulnerable, are very very hard to shot down. 

Do you remember one the WGs arguments for the CV rework? "A shima has nothing to do if enemy CV sets a squadron over her." (Something like that). Well, a russiam CV set fighters over my kitakaze and i was able to shoot down 1 fighter. 1 freaking fighter. "Vulnerable planes" my .ss.

 

[BackToHarbor]

5 hours ago, Vbeest said:

Wow, he was a cheater. Charging twice in Soviet CV, where there is only one attack per squadron possible ..

There was an update recently, it could be that it was before that. Even if it was possible before, it doesn't change the fact that I wasn't able to stop him at all.

See, usually Tier 8 cvs from any nation would get little to no planes to attack someone in an AA Mino, and that's the point.

 

4 hours ago, ghostbuster_ said:

AA bubble? What AA bubble? There is no AA bubble anymore. Thats gone with the hilarious CV rework.

 

But yeah, russian planes which are supposed to be vulnerable, are very very hard to shot down. 

Do you remember one the WGs arguments for the CV rework? "A shima has nothing to do if enemy CV sets a squadron over her." (Something like that). Well, a russiam CV set fighters over my kitakaze and i was able to shoot down 1 fighter. 1 freaking fighter. "Vulnerable planes" my .ss.

 

Ok, I meant to say my when he enters my 76 mills. Generally when tier 8 CVs enter your 6.9km AA they turn out as quick as possible, normally. 

 

5 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

Do you still have the replay? Your text is vague at best...

Like I said, I'm missing it sadly. The only reason I'm posting this is because it was hilariously broken how little damage I did to those planes and to ask if anyone else had experience with similiar situations.

[159Hunter]

4 hours ago, ghostbuster_ said:

AA bubble? What AA bubble? There is no AA bubble anymore. Thats gone with the hilarious CV rework.

 

But yeah, russian planes which are supposed to be vulnerable, are very very hard to shot down. 

Do you remember one the WGs arguments for the CV rework? "A shima has nothing to do if enemy CV sets a squadron over her." (Something like that). Well, a russiam CV set fighters over my kitakaze and i was able to shoot down 1 fighter. 1 freaking fighter. "Vulnerable planes" my .ss.

 

The thing is, WG wanted to get rid of big alpha dmg ( aka one strike for dmg ) so they came up with multiple strikes that do less dmg. And the first strike should always be possible ( bar the potato catching all them smoke puff level ups).

And now they come up with CVs that do all dmg in one strike. A strike that should be guaranteed to to happen. So how are we not back to pre rework CV concept?

 

Care to explain where I am mistaken @YabbaCoe cause I am lost here. I am sure you can explain where my raisoning has failed me 

[ghostbuster_]

5 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

The thing is, WG wanted to get rid of big alpha dmg ( aka one strike for dmg ) so they came up with multiple strikes that do less dmg. And the first strike should always be possible ( bar the potato catching all them smoke puff level ups).

And now they come up with CVs that do all dmg in one strike. A strike that should be guaranteed to to happen. So how are we not back to pre rework CV concept?

 

Care to explain where I am mistaken @YabbaCoe cause I am lost here. I am sure you can explain where my raisoning has failed me 

There has never been any sort of correlation between what WG says and what WG does when it comes to CV rework anyway. They introduced AP rockets which are an other tool to deal high alpha damage. There areao many examples but i really dont want to repeat them for like 10th time.

 

But i can say this one more time. All the reasons for CV rework WG has been giving us are nothing but bullsh.t.

[El2aZeR]

12 hours ago, BackToHarbor said:

He was happily going after me whilst every other Tier 8 CV (or even Tier 10s) wouldn't ever want to touch my AA bubble.

 

No T8 CV actually has issues attacking a Mino, it just comes down to the skill of the CV player. AA is just that weak and an AA build does very little to alleviate that. 

 

7 hours ago, ghostbuster_ said:

But yeah, russian planes which are supposed to be vulnerable, are very very hard to shot down.

 

The reason for this is because planes get a 50% damage reduction buff for the attacking wing on the attack because WG wants CVs to always be able to get an attack off even against the biggest AA blobs.

Since for Soviet CVs the entire squad attacks the entire squad gets this buff.

[Hugh_Ruka]

54 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

The reason for this is because planes get a 50% damage reduction buff for the attacking wing on the attack because WG wants CVs to always be able to get an attack off even against the biggest AA blobs.

Since for Soviet CVs the entire squad attacks the entire squad gets this buff.

this .... if he times the attack correctly for the last second or last few seconds, he can abuse this for quite some effect ...

[General_Alexus]

Meanwhile in other CVs you need to predrop your planes and attack with only 2 squads anyway to get one drop in and pull the second one while loosing 1. Yeah on T6 I can get multiple drops in, on T10 I am lucky with 2 and I loose alot of planes for it. Yeah much [edited] with Russian CVs and theie "disadvantage"

[ghostbuster_]

17 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

The reason for this is because planes get a 50% damage reduction buff for the attacking wing on the attack because WG wants CVs to always be able to get an attack off even against the biggest AA blobs.

Since for Soviet CVs the entire squad attacks the entire squad gets this buff.

dont say it too loud. you might go to gulag for exposing state secrets. 

 

but hey, they are vulnerable.. at least WG said so. 

[Hugh_Ruka]

As was said some time ago by WG: AA was not designed to prevent the first strike but to reduce subsequent ones.

 

Now we have a class of CVs that only do one strike ....

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, General_Alexus said:

Meanwhile in other CVs you need to predrop your planes and attack with only 2 squads anyway to get one drop in and pull the second one while loosing 1. Yeah on T6 I can get multiple drops in, on T10 I am lucky with 2 and I loose alot of planes for it.

 

 

AA is generally not powerful enough to deny 2 drops nor is it powerful enough to cause meaningful losses.

[General_Alexus]

1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

 

 

AA is generally not powerful enough to deny 2 drops nor is it powerful enough to cause meaningful losses.

On T4/T6? Yeah, On that lone BB or IJN CA at T10? maybe. Over an iland? yeah you can abuse it. Everything else is a waste of planes, maybe play something other than FDR. Why do you think people dont do second attackruns?

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

1 hour ago, General_Alexus said:

Meanwhile in other CVs you need to predrop your planes and attack with only 2 squads anyway to get one drop in and pull the second one while loosing 1. Yeah on T6 I can get multiple drops in, on T10 I am lucky with 2 and I loose alot of planes for it. Yeah much [edited] with Russian CVs and theie "disadvantage"

The fact that 'predrop' exists as a valid 'feature' at all is a clear sign of how much BS the carriers actually are 

[1MajorKoenig]

On 8/10/2021 at 3:55 AM, gopher31 said:

Well on the rework CVs we’re made so they would always get one strike off  but good AA might prevent a second.

They also made the attacking flight return to safe altitude much faster than recalled planes.

 

Soviet CVs take full advantage of these two things.

 

Well basically the downside of the “one strike should go through” is usually low damage (eg. 2-3k DMG for one Torp).

 

However if WG now designs a CV line with only one strike it smells a bit like cheating the own design idea
 

 

[General_Alexus]

14 minutes ago, Europizza said:

The fact that 'predrop' exists as a valid 'feature' at all is a clear sign of how much BS the carriers actually are 

With Haku its like: "now at T10 you have 12 TBs but you can still only use 2, same as on T6".

Yeah much advantage for me needing to predrop 3 times in case I run into the enemy Halland first.

[WWDragon]

Oh and never mind you cannot cancel a attack run, you stuck with it even if the target is destroyed or you noticed your aim is slightly off but hey, remember CVs are OP ... even a deplaned  Saipan.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

3 hours ago, WWDragon said:

Oh and never mind you cannot cancel a attack run, you stuck with it even if the target is destroyed or you noticed your aim is slightly off but hey, remember CVs are OP ... even a deplaned  Saipan.

I think we are far beyond the carriers are OP complaints, and settled in the carriers are crap domain, even for carrier lovers 

[El2aZeR]

3 hours ago, General_Alexus said:

Why do you think people dont do second attackruns?

 

Because they suck one way or another. 2nd attack runs are usually viable prospects even against small groups.

 

3 hours ago, General_Alexus said:

Yeah much advantage for me needing to predrop 3 times in case I run into the enemy Halland first.

 

There is literally never any need to shorten your squad at the beginning at all. Doing so is a mistake.

 

3 hours ago, WWDragon said:

Oh and never mind you cannot cancel a attack run, you stuck with it even if the target is destroyed or you noticed your aim is slightly off but hey, remember CVs are OP ... even a deplaned  Saipan.

 

If your target dies while you're making an attack on it more often than not you were being greedy and did not plan ahead.

Getting deplaned is almost certainly your own fault given the hilarious amounts of reserves reworked CVs field. Even "low reserve" CVs such as Saipan field superior reserves compared to almost all RTS CVs while facing laughably weaker opposition.

[WWDragon]

13 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Getting deplaned is almost certainly your own fault given the hilarious amounts of reserves reworked CVs field. Even "low reserve" CVs such as Saipan field superior reserves compared to almost all RTS CVs while facing laughably weaker opposition.

...

I assume you understand sarcasm.

 

[SodaBubbles]

18 hours ago, General_Alexus said:

On T4/T6? Yeah, On that lone BB or IJN CA at T10? maybe. Over an iland? yeah you can abuse it. Everything else is a waste of planes, maybe play something other than FDR. Why do you think people dont do second attackruns?

Maybe we are playing different games, but in the WOWs I play, CVs always do second attack runs.