Update 0.10.7: Submarines in Ranked Battles

[SlavicNoOb]

On 9/3/2021 at 12:00 PM, Smegger213 said:

Played a few more games in ranked.

Subs are still a pain in the ar__ to play against.

I was playing with BB's at first, and I found it intolerable to counter subs.

So I switched to playing DD's.

I had better games, but I found I could not kill subs with depth charges.

Chasing subs just to plant depth charges on them just does not work.

Plus when you are chasing subs, you end up putting your DD into enemy fire etc.

So it just does not work.

Perhaps DD's should be equipped with the forward firing Hedghog system?

Plus most of the sub players in ranked end up at the bottom of the team list at the end of the battle.

 

So my view on subs has not changed.

Wargaming, mark my words.

THE DAY YOU PUT SUBS INTO RANDOM BATTLES WILL BE THE DAY I UN-INSTALL!!!

Subs ending at the bottom of the team list and subs being such a scary menace don't go well together... If they're so scary and overpowered, how come are they ending up on the bottom after the end of the match? Do you realize that there is a huge contradiction in your statement?

And as I play submarines a lot in ranked, I can tell you that it's not as easy for submarines as you think. The limited dive capacity is one factor that makes submarine life hard. The other factor is competent surface ship players. I don't know if you realize this, but there is both a ship upgrade and a captain skill that allows you to spot torps earlier. It's very effective.
 

[YabbaCoe]

V 26. 9. 2021 v 4:33 Catslave řekl/a:

A bit late but just for the record: (and i encourage all who read this to screenshot it so you can repost it at the correct time..)

When asked, wargaming also claimed that the mission would stack with flags. This part was already proven to be a lie and WG claimed the usual....miscommunication.

When pressed with confirming that the mission is indeed "permanent" life on stream, WG refused to confirm. Their excuse was, that the playerbase was too good at expecting WG to stay true to their promise and actually dare to call WG out on breaking those.

When numbers showed up, wg claimed they needed data to see what modifier the mission needs. That is ridiculous. WG coded the original Missouri modifier, they coded the modifier for all other Premiums, they removed the modifier from Missouri and they have several years worth of data. So this is another instance of them just seeing with how much scamming the playerbase they can get away with. Even the current 30% mission is a joke. Not too long ago Flamu got a massive Missouri game with ~3ooo base xp, using all the flags and camo he got something like 1.2mil credits for that. Before the blatant nerf a ~2ooo base xp game with all the flags would easily net ~1.5mil credits. So far it seems that the mission needs to be something like 100% bonus to get anywhere near what WG promised above: "on average, earn the same number of credits as before". And it seems like WG won again, ppl have complained for weeks, wg pretending to be nice has increased the modifier by irrelevant amounts...until not enough ppl complain anymore.

 

But most important thing is:

The mission is only available until the end of the year, now we know from the old legendary upgrade missions that wg claims this to be technical limitations (any semi competent company would have dealt with that back then but oh well).

My prediction:

At the beginning of the new year (not necessarily 2022) the mission will be gone. Upon being asked wargaming will claim"technical issues" and promise to "look into it". Once pressure has grown enough they will blame miscommunication and apologize "we are sorry that you failed to understand that we meant the exact opposite of what we wrote". Naturally the mission won't be re-added unless the playerbase travels to the wargaming HQ and starts burning it down with the dev team still inside....and even then the mission will miraculously disappear again the next year.

Hello,

We didn't say, that signals and camos will stack on this mission. I explained here several times, that the mission will be side bonus and that bonus should compensate the losses also considering previous signals and camos bonuses.

Data showed us, that original bonus of that mission wasn't that much compensating this in average, that is why we raised that to 30% and also compensated the difference.

It shows the mission will end in the end of this year, because of the visibility of that mission until the end of the year. Right after that new mission will appear with the similar time until end of next year.

So this mission will not disapear.

 

Před 22 hodinami Ghesthar řekl/a:

In the future if you guys do repeated temporary rentals, could you please provide the ships without commanders?

 

I've just had to go through and dismiss 32 1 point submarine captains, and I'm fairly certain I dismissed some as I went as well.

 

If there are going to be limited reserve spaces, please don't spam us with absolute garbage to fill that space unless you also make a nice interface to mass clean the garbage you provide.

Those commanders are coming with separate slot in the reserves, so they are not spamming your reserve places.

 

Před 4 hodinami dN00b řekl/a:

Hello WG.

I want to let you know that I LOVE submarines. Don't get me wrong, I love the other ship classes too, including carriers. But for me submarines bring a new environment to fight in.. a 3D environment. And not only fighting, but I love the underwater world too, although it may use some refreshing. Maybe some animals too, like dolphins, orcas etc.? Just for cosmetics ofc.

As for the people complaining, to me it seems that WG has balanced the submarines quite well. Yes, it can be painful if you're a battleship, or even a cruiser, however it's only very painful an annoying if you don't know how to counter the submarines. If you do, it's not bad at all. It's the same like when noob players show their broadside and get citadeled in situation when they could have angled.

I understand that the submarines disrupt existing and established strategies, but if you adapt, you can overcome. Just another challenge to take on.. And for those that still want to complain about how the submarines are overpowered (they are not!), aren't cruisers and battleships OP from the viewpoint of a destroyer player? Yes they are! Destroyers usually die first in matches. So what are we to do, remove battleships and cruisers from the game? And when we are talking about destroyers, they get something interesting to do now apart from capping and spotting while sacrificing themselves, as they are the primary ship type that is supposed to counter submarines. 

As someone that loves playing with submarines I cannot wait for them to be added to random battles. They are more or less well balanced, and if needs be will be balanced some more once WG has the statistics from the ranked battle matches. And like with other ship types, if you know what you're doing, you'll do good. If not, you'll rush too deep into enemy territory with no support and get blasted by destroyers and other ships.

I feel that we have here a vocal minority that is complaining about submarines. Most players don't mind. And some of us love them. And it's normal that the unsatisfied are the ones making the most noise, it is so with everything. Those that don't care or like the submarines aren't as motivated to write on the forums as the people that are unhappy. Dissatisfaction always causes bigger reaction. But we cannot let a small minority of players to dictate the development of the game.

Regarding underwater world, there are some additions planned, but I am not sure, if we will have animals there... just imagine somebody trying to torp that dolphin...

 

It is pretty sure, that in terms of balance, still some things will be done anc changed, f.e. announced addition of ASW to all surface ships etc.

But as you mentioned, submarines definitely will have huge influence on the meta of the game and also on established strategies and tactics. 

As with other classes or ships more or less, there will be fans or haters of this class. We will still try to do our best to balance them properly and to possibly make changes, so it would be fun and interesting play, they won't be game-changer that much and neither OP or weak. 

[SlavicNoOb]

Question for WG: can we expect submarines in random by the end of 2021?

[Smegger213]

On 9/27/2021 at 5:42 AM, dN00b said:

Subs ending at the bottom of the team list and subs being such a scary menace don't go well together... If they're so scary and overpowered, how come are they ending up on the bottom after the end of the match? Do you realize that there is a huge contradiction in your statement?

And as I play submarines a lot in ranked, I can tell you that it's not as easy for submarines as you think. The limited dive capacity is one factor that makes submarine life hard. The other factor is competent surface ship players. I don't know if you realize this, but there is both a ship upgrade and a captain skill that allows you to spot torps earlier. It's very effective.
 

Did I use the word "scary"?

No I didn't.

I said subs are a pain in the ar__ to play against, esp when playing BB.

 

Perhaps, I was wrong to say a lot of subs end up bottom of the team list.

It was more likely that my experience in ranks, I saw quite a few subs at the bottom of the team list.

Plus just because a lot of subs end up bottom on the team. It does not mean they are not a pain to play against.

 

What I found pathetic, was the idea of me in a BB, having to waste a repair party heal, just to break a subs sonar torpedo lock.

I am in a BB. I need the repair party to actually heal damage.

The idiot that came up with this idea, wants firing.

 

Oh and you mention ship upgrades and captain skills to spot torps earlier.

Well, what's the point in wasting a captain skill for this.

It don't matter if you spot the torps earlier, when they are garbage homing torpedoes. You are still going to get hit.

 

My view has not changed. I gave up on playing ranked.

I will be un-installing if they put subs into random battles.

[SlavicNoOb]

10 hours ago, Smegger213 said:

Did I use the word "scary"?

No I didn't.

I said subs are a pain in the ar__ to play against, esp when playing BB.

 

Perhaps, I was wrong to say a lot of subs end up bottom of the team list.

It was more likely that my experience in ranks, I saw quite a few subs at the bottom of the team list.

Plus just because a lot of subs end up bottom on the team. It does not mean they are not a pain to play against.

 

What I found pathetic, was the idea of me in a BB, having to waste a repair party heal, just to break a subs sonar torpedo lock.

I am in a BB. I need the repair party to actually heal damage.

The idiot that came up with this idea, wants firing.

 

Oh and you mention ship upgrades and captain skills to spot torps earlier.

Well, what's the point in wasting a captain skill for this.

It don't matter if you spot the torps earlier, when they are garbage homing torpedoes. You are still going to get hit.

 

My view has not changed. I gave up on playing ranked.

I will be un-installing if they put subs into random battles.

Scary or a pain, same thing. Your experience that subs end up at the bottom most of the time is correct. I played subs in ranked as much as possible, actually over 50% of my battles so far are in submarines (and I got to gold league), and subs end up on the bottom of the list at the end of the battle. That may be due to the fact that 99.9% of the players only play the submarines occasionally, with low skill captain and submarines that are not upgraded. But, even I end up at the bottom at least half of the time, even though my sub is completely upgraded and I have a 12 point captains currently.

The damage control party mechanic is questionable. Maybe can be fixed by giving a couple of extra charges (or unlimited) of the damage control party for each ship. Or something similar.

What the point of "wasting" captain skills for torpedoes? The point is that it would not be wasting of points. Submarines are becoming part of the game. The game is evolving. Even chess was probably not the way we know it when it was first invented few thousand years ago. And you are looking at submarines purely from the perspective of a battleship player. But battleships are not the only thing around. For destroyers submarines are a new interesting thing to hunt (and very satisfying when killed with depth charges).

The upgrade for detecting torps earlier, along with the captain skill with the same effect, are EXTREMELY helpful for avoiding destroyer toprs as well. So now with the submarines coming I believe most bb players will find real fast that having that ship upgrade and that skill are a must.

What I don't like is the planes the ships send to drop dept charges. A hedgehog makes much more sense imo.


 

[Benser33]

20 hours ago, Smegger213 said:

What I found pathetic, was the idea of me in a BB, having to waste a repair party heal, just to break a subs sonar torpedo lock.

I am in a BB. I need the repair party to actually heal damage.

The idiot that came up with this idea, wants firing.

You dont use DCP to clear a ping just because you've been pinged, you use it to break the homing of incoming torpedos early so they can't adjust to your maneuvers.

So yes, you should only use it when it is actually preventing damage. Don't waste it just because you've been pinged.

[I_use_torpedoes]

Just read your devblog. I highly suggest you keep those abominations that subs are out of Random Battles. Nobody actually asked for them and if you put them into the game mode you won't be pleasing your aimed 3-5% sub loving players but rather anger the 30-50% that think that subs have nothing to do in the game just like CVs. Do you guys even play your own game?

Well either way, if I see just one sub in Random after your "testing phase" is over, I'll move on from WoWs - and I'm a DD player.

[Smegger213]

12 hours ago, dN00b said:

1. The damage control party mechanic is questionable. Maybe can be fixed by giving a couple of extra charges (or unlimited) of the damage control party for each ship. Or something similar.

2. Submarines are becoming part of the game. The game is evolving.





 

I have just seen Flamu's video of the latest dev blog.

 

1. Dumb Wargaming say, that they are NOT going to change using repair party to break torpedo sonar lock.

 

2. Submarines are becoming part of the game. But they will be becoming  part of the game WITHOUT ME.

I have said all along. "THE DAY WARGAMING PUT SUBS INTO RANDOM BATTLES, WILL BE THE DAY I UN-INSTALL".

Having played this game on and off with 2 accounts since the closed alpha.

It is soon time to leave.

WARGAMING DO NOT LISTEN TO THE FEEDBACK THEY GET.

They have intended all along to force subs into the game, NO MATTER HOW BAD THEY ARE FOR GAME BALANCE.

 

So soon, I will be leaving.

Your loss Wargaming, not mine.

[SlavicNoOb]

1 hour ago, Smegger213 said:

I have just seen Flamu's video of the latest dev blog.

 

1. Dumb Wargaming say, that they are NOT going to change using repair party to break torpedo sonar lock.

 

2. Submarines are becoming part of the game. But they will be becoming  part of the game WITHOUT ME.

I have said all along. "THE DAY WARGAMING PUT SUBS INTO RANDOM BATTLES, WILL BE THE DAY I UN-INSTALL".

Having played this game on and off with 2 accounts since the closed alpha.

It is soon time to leave.

WARGAMING DO NOT LISTEN TO THE FEEDBACK THEY GET.

They have intended all along to force subs into the game, NO MATTER HOW BAD THEY ARE FOR GAME BALANCE.

 

So soon, I will be leaving.

Your loss Wargaming, not mine.

And I have held back so far on buying a premium ship. But, since I first tired the subs last year on the test server, I knew that once they're in randoms, 99% of my random battles will be with subs. And I will definitely spend money on premium subs.

And it's sorta silly that you threaten to leave the game in an attempt to influence the development of the game. First of all, 90-95% of you saying that are either bluffing, or will be back few days, weeks, or months later when you calm down. And for those that don't come back, there are plenty of new players every day. You know children grow up, come of the age when they can play wows... Don't think you will scare WG with "I will leave". Chances are you won't spend as much money on the game as a new player (with no preconceptions of how it was before submarines), and the more ships (or now boats as subs are called) are in there to choose from, the more stuff to grind, the more premium ships/boats there can be, and that means more money for WG, more money for the game to be kept alive.

So all of you 'quitters' just chill.

[anonym_cwVecOS6ecVy]

On 9/27/2021 at 11:24 AM, YabbaCoe said:

We will still try to do our best to balance them properly and to possibly make changes, so it would be fun and interesting play, they won't be game-changer that much and neither OP or weak. 

• Subs are not interesting to play nor will they ever be
• You will do your best to meet the population % goal of subs, just like with CVs nobody wants
• If subs are not accepted, you are buffing them, just like the german upcoming sub buff, same like with CVs
• All of the feedback was the same from first iteration to current state: Stop this sh*tshow

On 9/27/2021 at 11:24 AM, YabbaCoe said:

But as you mentioned, submarines definitely will have huge influence on the meta of the game and also on established strategies and tactics.

So "they won't be a game changer" but "will have huge influence on the meta of the game"? Do you actually read what you type before you push the post button?!

[Stronginthearms]

Its funny dnoob I dont see anyone besides you defending subs maybe they can wave at us

[SlavicNoOb]

37 minutes ago, Stronginthearms said:

Its funny dnoob I dont see anyone besides you defending subs maybe they can wave at us

 

[Stronginthearms]

wow you found 2 vids on youtube to backyou up bet if I wasted my time could find around 50 times that saying they dont want them, of course wg will put then in ramdons and ruin the game losing most of the older players and hoping to get new ones even if they have to pay them to play. Your welcome to the game with just subs ,destroyers and aircraft players

[SlavicNoOb]

13 hours ago, Stronginthearms said:

wow you found 2 vids on youtube to backyou up bet if I wasted my time could find around 50 times that saying they dont want them, of course wg will put then in ramdons and ruin the game losing most of the older players and hoping to get new ones even if they have to pay them to play. Your welcome to the game with just subs ,destroyers and aircraft players

First, all of you are overreacting. Destroyers are far more dangerous for battleships than submarines. I play battleships in the current ranked battles and I find destroyers to be an order of magnitude more dangerous than submarines, especially things like the Shimakaze. And aside from destroyers I find the Minotaur a great threat too with it insane rate of fire. In comparison submarines are meh. If you are smart you can avoid their torps very easily.

Some of the tactics of dealing with submarines as a BB are:
1. stay away from them. Once spotted you can choose to put some distance between yourself and themselves. They are slow so they cant chase you like a DD. And at longer range, if you zig zag and sail away from them, you make their torps take a zig zag path too, which rapidly eats up their range.
2. Some of you are complaining about submarine torp speed and homing. The thing is smart players turn these things into an advantage when dealing with submarines and their torps. The homing and speed means that if submarine torps are coming at you from the side and you're moving at a decent or full speed, they have to aim in-front of you, which means using the damage control party, or even just turning in and braking will make them miss. What makes them miss is that exact speed you complain about. Since they are going so fast and have a limited turning radius, they cannot rapidly change course at the last minute.
3. If you are moving away from the submarine and where it is firing torps at you from, even if there is not much distance between you and the submarine, you can use the zig-zag pattern again in order to make the torps miss, again taking advantage of the homing mechanism and their inability to turn fast at close range because of their high speed.

As I play submarines in ranked as much as possible (my ranked battles atm are over 50% with submarines), I have encountered two types of players.
1. Players that have adapted to submarines and know how to counter them. And these players are a nightmare for any submarine player. When you rely on big slow targets for most of your damage, and those big slow targets know how to avoid your torps, you can end up in a match with 0 damage quite often, even when your team wins.
2. Players that don't know how to avoid the torps, that don't pay attention to the map, etc. These players are a majority. And there is no surprise since these are more or less the same players that offer broadside and don't take evasive maneuvers/angling when being shot at by surface ships.

Submarines are not game braking or changing the meta of the game as much as it is claimed. If they were I would be complaining too, because although I like playing submarines, I also play all other ship types, including CV's. It's just lazy players that do not want to, or cannot, adapt that are making all the noise.

I linked two videos about people saying submarines are not bad, or 'I love submarines' because I'm not going to spend more than 2 minutes looking for evidence for you. As I said before here, those unhappy make far more noise, so it looks like there are a lot of them. I saw one more video few weeks ago of a person saying he was waiting for submarines since 2015, but I was not in the mood too look it up again.

The point is you claimed I was the only one loving or liking submarines, so I showed you I am not the only one. Recently I made a comment in ranked that submarines are great, and the person on my team that was also playing submarine instantly sent me a clan invitation after the battle. So we are there, we are just silent because things are going in the direction we want them to be going.

So I recommend you stop whining and start learning how to counter submarines, and maybe play them a bit since that will teach you how to counter them and how vulnerable they are more than anything. Some say there is no skill in doing damage with a submarine. The thing is like CV's have to read the map and know where to support, the skill when playing a submarine is knowing how to position yourself so you can live long enough to deal damage and help your team win the battle, manage your dive capacity, etc.

[Catslave]

On 9/27/2021 at 11:24 AM, YabbaCoe said:

Hello,

We didn't say, that signals and camos will stack on this mission. I explained here several times, that the mission will be side bonus and that bonus should compensate the losses also considering previous signals and camos bonuses.

Data showed us, that original bonus of that mission wasn't that much compensating this in average, that is why we raised that to 30% and also compensated the difference.

It shows the mission will end in the end of this year, because of the visibility of that mission until the end of the year. Right after that new mission will appear with the similar time until end of next year.

So this mission will not disapear.

Da, comrade .... was communication error.

Unfortunately i cannot find the source atm but you (as in WG, not you personally) have directly been asked if flags and camos stack with the mission to achieve your "promise" (lol) that previous owners of the ship will make (roughly) the same amount of credits with the same setup. The answer from WG was "yes".
As for your statement "the mission will not disappear" ... So why are your colleagues so adamant about NOT calling it permanent ? And can we hold you to that statement when (or if, but i doubt) my prediction comes true ? I'm curious to see which of your hands you are willing to put into the fire to vouch for that .....