What are the Dutch ships for?

[Shells]

Good day everyone, I was just wondering if anyone figured out yet what the new Dutch ships are supposed to do?

Granted I havent played them that long yet but here is what I found that they are not:

 

- DD counter: Noop, you are to slow, gun range is too poor, reload it too long, gun damage is bad, airstrike takes too long, maneuverability is too poor.

- AA defender: Noop, from T8 and up the AA got nerfed hard. T7 still has amazing AA (about 3x better than T8, except for range) but short range only.

- Camp counter: Noop, Airstrike range is bad and once detected, which will happen in an average DD/CV game when you try to sneap up to a camper, you get deleted due to lack of maneuverability.

- CA/CL counter: Noop, you have a good heal but again maneuverability is very bad, as well as speed, and you light up like a torch (armor doesnt help here).

- BB counter: Noop, heal and armor help somewhat but showing broadside hurts and you are again missing maneuverability, gun reload speed, accuracy and well punch (guns deal almost no dmg). You have an airstrike but anything with good AA or some maneuverability or even map awareness will dodge (most) bombs.

 

I'd love to hear what they are inteded for as I have trouble finding the general use or even the niche.

Apologies for any grama/spelling error's, English is not my 1st/2nd language.

[humpty_1]

Camp counter: deffo not i dropped two sets of bombs on a bb sat there three hit caused 3k damage t9...

[Bindolaf_Werebane]

Forget the gimmick. It seems to me they are ok heavy cruisers. Not great at anything, but not bad. *shrug*

[ColonelPete]

12 minutes ago, Shells said:

Good day everyone, I was just wondering if anyone figured out yet what the new Dutch ships are supposed to do?

Granted I havent played them that long yet but here is what I found that they are not:

 

- DD counter: Noop, you are to slow, gun range is too poor, reload it too long, gun damage is bad, airstrike takes too long, maneuverability is too poor.

- AA defender: Noop, from T8 and up the AA got nerfed hard. T7 still has amazing AA (about 3x better than T8, except for range) but short range only.

- Camp counter: Noop, Airstrike range is bad and once detected, which will happen in an average DD/CV game when you try to sneap up to a camper, you get deleted due to lack of maneuverability.

- CA/CL counter: Noop, you have a good heal but again maneuverability is very bad, as well as speed, and you light up like a torch (armor doesnt help here).

- BB counter: Noop, heal and armor help somewhat but showing broadside hurts and you are again missing maneuverability, gun reload speed, accuracy and well punch (guns deal almost no dmg). You have an airstrike but anything with good AA or some maneuverability or even map awareness will dodge (most) bombs.

 

I'd love to hear what they are inteded for as I have trouble finding the general use or even the niche.

Apologies for any grama/spelling error's, English is not my 1st/2nd language.

• they have Hydro and the guns are good enough against DD
• Air Defender does not work well in this game since the CV rework
• Enemies that close to you are not camping anyway
• they work decently vs other cruisers
• it is not a cruisers job to counter BB...

[Shells]

7 minutes ago, Bindolaf_Werebane said:

Forget the gimmick. It seems to me they are ok heavy cruisers. Not great at anything, but not bad. *shrug*

 

Well if you take away the gimmick, you have something like a wannabe Baltimore that is nowhere near in every area.

 

Shame, would have liked the Dutch to be at least "Ok" but currently they are just bad unfortunately... though I still have to try the stearing gear mod in the last stlot (instead of concealment). 

 

[Shells]

3 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

• they have Hydro and the guns are good enough against DD
• Air Defender does not work well in this game since the CV rework
• Enemies that close to you are not camping anyway
• they work decently vs other cruisers
• it is not a cruisers job to counter BB...

Almost all cruisers have Hydero, if they dont they have something else they are good at :)

Guns dont work well against DD's due to reload, rotation speed, accuracy and shell dmg.

I know AA is bad now due to CV rework but the initial AA that was posted for these ships (T8 and up) was butchered.

Decent vs. other cruisers is a maybe, sure you have better heal and armor but you light up like a torch and dont do much damage to others and you dont have torps.

 

[Yedwy]

They are just another mediocre line, somebody mentioned they are only adding the Dutch Tree for the subs they intend to put in later and I kinda tend to agree there as it sounds most WG like

[Onsterfelijke]

8 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

They are just another mediocre line, somebody mentioned they are only adding the Dutch Tree for the subs they intend to put in later and I kinda tend to agree there as it sounds most WG like

And the most Dutch players spend a lot of money.... But even on the stream Tucci commented that the Dutch were Submarine  pioneers with good idea's.

 

I find the line not to bad the T4-5 not problems at all and can make a impact on game and have even de AA to keep those CV away. armor not too bad but don't give broadsides.

And theT6-7 the HE can handle the most DD easy and the AA get problems to handle CV's the airstrikes are really weak.

 

The Haarlem T8 is good vs cruisers soso vs Dd And the AA has problems against player CV's who know what to do. Guns are so strange so unreaible Sometime laser sharp and a other time you can't hit a barn.

 

I don't have the T9 but they should able to hit campers to bad they nerfed the airstrikes so much (spread too wide)

 

And what i hear the T10 is a bit stronger in the gun department.

[HTN02]

the cruisers are for dutch people, at least, thats the only reason i am sailing them.

 

T8 does have pretty good AA:

 

[ghostbuster_]

1 hour ago, humpty_1 said:

Camp counter: deffo not i dropped two sets of bombs on a bb sat there three hit caused 3k damage t9...

Seems like you failed your drop. 

"Yamato guns are trash! shot a montana two times, hit 3 shells for 3 overpens. Yamato guns suck." Doesnt make sense at all, does it?

[ghostbuster_]

6 minutes ago, HTN02 said:

 

 

T8 does have pretty good AA:

 

Correction: "enemy CV was pretty bad."

[MannequinSkywalker]

6 minutes ago, HTN02 said:

T8 does have pretty good AA

Was it a Tier 6 CV?

[HTN02]

2 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

Correction: "enemy CV was pretty bad."

id like to think i did a good job providing AA cover for the DD's ;-)

2 minutes ago, MannequinSkywalker said:

Was it a Tier 6 CV?

Lexington, T8

[MannequinSkywalker]

3 minutes ago, HTN02 said:

Lexington, T8

Then he was a very bad CV player. Plus you probably shot more fighters than other planes.

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

I have only played Tier IV / V / VI and VII in CoOp.

 

They seems decent but that's all...

 

On a side-note: how do you get high position overview when you are using "4" (i.e. "Aircraft Strike")?

 

All I get is flat (short distance = unable to target properly) view and nothing like "Spotter plane" view that I saw YouTubers and Twitch players get...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[ColonelPete]

1 hour ago, Shells said:

Almost all cruisers have Hydero, if they dont they have something else they are good at :)

Guns dont work well against DD's due to reload, rotation speed, accuracy and shell dmg.

I know AA is bad now due to CV rework but the initial AA that was posted for these ships (T8 and up) was butchered.

Decent vs. other cruisers is a maybe, sure you have better heal and armor but you light up like a torch and dont do much damage to others and you dont have torps.

 

And that is why most cruisers work well vs DD and Dutch guns are sufficient to deal with DD. 

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

 

I have only played Tier IV / V / VI and VII in CoOp.

 

They seems decent but that's all...

 

On a side-note: how do you get high position overview when you are using "4" (i.e. "Aircraft Strike")?

 

All I get is flat (short distance = unable to target properly) view and nothing like "Spotter plane" view that I saw YouTubers and Twitch players get...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

Zoom in.

[HTN02]

11 minutes ago, MannequinSkywalker said:

Then he was a very bad CV player. Plus you probably shot more fighters than other planes.

with the AA boost and sector boost, i shoot down a entire flight of planes before they can hit, or run away. (especially rocketplanes are just paper.

 

there were some fighters involved, but most shot down were rockets, bombers, and torp bombers.

 

ill post a replay tonight.

 

2 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

 

I have only played Tier IV / V / VI and VII in CoOp.

 

They seems decent but that's all...

 

On a side-note: how do you get high position overview when you are using "4" (i.e. "Aircraft Strike")?

 

All I get is flat (short distance = unable to target properly) view and nothing like "Spotter plane" view that I saw YouTubers and Twitch players get...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

shift to zoom in, the futher away you look, the more of a topdown view you get

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

2 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Zoom in.

 

1 minute ago, HTN02 said:

shift to zoom in, the futher away you look, the more of a topdown view you get

 

RGR!

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[Molly_Delaney]

Haven't played the others yet, but T9 Johan {something} is quite good at contesting caps in support of your DDs.

Airstrike is situational but practice with it and you can deliver a sudden surprise attack over islands or in the 2 Brothers channel.

Unlike Ise and others the Dutch airstrike is 'fire & forget'....

 

 

[MannequinSkywalker]

6 minutes ago, HTN02 said:

with the AA boost and sector boost, i shoot down a entire flight of planes before they can hit, or run away. (especially rocketplanes are just paper.

 

there were some fighters involved, but most shot down were rockets, bombers, and torp bombers.

 

ill post a replay tonight.

Apparently he couldn't dodge any flak and him not being able to sink a cruiser or taking him 60 planes to sink it prove he's a bad CV player. Def AA and sectoring AA don't work against very good CV players.

[Figment]

2 hours ago, Shells said:

Good day everyone, I was just wondering if anyone figured out yet what the new Dutch ships are supposed to do?

Granted I havent played them that long yet but here is what I found that they are not:

 

- DD counter: Noop, you are to slow, gun range is too poor, reload it too long, gun damage is bad, airstrike takes too long, maneuverability is too poor.

- AA defender: Noop, from T8 and up the AA got nerfed hard. T7 still has amazing AA (about 3x better than T8, except for range) but short range only.

- Camp counter: Noop, Airstrike range is bad and once detected, which will happen in an average DD/CV game when you try to sneap up to a camper, you get deleted due to lack of maneuverability.

- CA/CL counter: Noop, you have a good heal but again maneuverability is very bad, as well as speed, and you light up like a torch (armor doesnt help here).

- BB counter: Noop, heal and armor help somewhat but showing broadside hurts and you are again missing maneuverability, gun reload speed, accuracy and well punch (guns deal almost no dmg). You have an airstrike but anything with good AA or some maneuverability or even map awareness will dodge (most) bombs.

 

I'd love to hear what they are inteded for as I have trouble finding the general use or even the niche.

Apologies for any grama/spelling error's, English is not my 1st/2nd language.

DDs counter - pretty good at anti-DD up to 12km. (Do you have the 7% accuracy increase installed? Sounds like you don’t). I’ve killed a lot with them. Hydro and scouting planes and working closely behind your DDs or in their smokescreens together with your hydro will be very effective.

 

Camping counter - air strike works pretty decently as long as there are islands for cover. However, you’ll risk camping a lot yourself if you rely too much on the air strike. Thing is, you want your enemy to come to you, spamming them like any HE cruisers from behind isles and then be deterred by allies to move up further.

 

CA/CL - at range yes, up close sometimes. Rate of Fire and amounts of guns can allow for 5-12K volleys with AP on a broadside, though 2-4K is more likely. Kiting with HE is done decently at max range with reliable accuracy. You will take heavy BB damage though.

 

BB - you can do 6-8K AP strikes from

8km or closer on broadside superstructures. But you’ll likely be very exposed. If you aim air strike 1,5 to 2 hull lengths ahead, you’ll do 6-12K damage if the ship continues on. Possibly set a fire too.

CV counter - these things eat aircraft for breakfast even at 3,5km range I get up to 24 aircraft kills and kill entire wings flying over, so most CVs soon learn to leave you the hell alone. De Ruijter and up are great for chasing down CVs too. Killed quite a few barely getting any damage from constant attacks.

 

I’m also often using it as a scout once DDs are gone, not firing just exposing enemies. Know when NOT to fire to support your team.

 

I would argue their guns need a slight buff in AP power, but other than that I’m reasonably fine with ‘m. It is the teams that lack at times.

[Bybernd]

Playing the T7 I find the guns pretty bad, hardly penetrating anything.

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 2 Minuten, Bybernd sagte:

hardly penetrating anything.

So it's a T7 InCelebes? 

[Shells]

58 minutes ago, HTN02 said:

the cruisers are for dutch people, at least, thats the only reason i am sailing them.

 

T8 does have pretty good AA:

 

That looks like it was a nice game.

 

My comment about the AA is that it was changed significantly (in a bad way) over the course of the last couple of weeks. The T7 still has the original dmg output but T8 got hit hard but had its range slightly increased (bad trade off imo).

 

For what it is, T8 (dont have T9 or 10) just feels under powered compared to other cruisers. But I've also heard its an "acquired tast" so I'll hang in there a little longer.