ST 0.10.8, new ships (DB 186)

[Dragon200052]

I just find it odd that we got the 4x3 for Goliath and how with this we get the More Historical design being a 3x4 design (even with WG modifications) as a Premium instead, as from most sources the churchill cruisers had the 3x3 design we got in drake and then the 3x4 design we are getting now but due to them making a 4x3 design we lose out on the more historical design.

 

Let alone why it seems to basicaly be a CL but with heavy cruiser guns as the Brit AP could be very nice but also a tad broken on 9.2 inch guns, also why smoke screen it just seems weird for this one to have a smoke screen due to design and playstyle?

But I guess time will tell what will happen to this.

[_Lupastro_]

I have just only one thing to say..

 

 

 

 

 

WE DON'T NEED NEW SHIPS EVERY 15 DAYS. YOU CAN TAKE A REST.

[The_White_Whale]

20 hours ago, fumtu said:

I really wish that WG employ Tzoli for project like this, or someone who actually have knowledge about designs of RN ships, instead of creating abominations like this by themselves. 

 

The only difference is the superstructure.

 

https://www.deviantart.com/tzoli/art/Royal-Navy-Churchill-Type-Heavy-Cruiser-Design-A-871196110

[fumtu]

36 minutes ago, The_White_Whale said:

The only difference is the superstructure.

 

https://www.deviantart.com/tzoli/art/Royal-Navy-Churchill-Type-Heavy-Cruiser-Design-A-871196110

 

Whole superstructure and turret shapes. So basically everything from the deck up. I doubt RN would ever design cruiser, even the super heavy one, with such superstructure. His thread about Royal Navy big cruisers proposals on the other forum

 

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/royal-navy-big-cruiser-designs.36861/

 

I really like his designs even tho I know they were based on sketches, proposal specifications and his imagination. You might like WG design better, and that is perfectly OK, but I don't like it at all. Not just for Gibraltar, but even less for ships like Albemarle, Surrey or Goliath.

[invicta2012]

3 hours ago, fumtu said:

I really like his designs even tho I know they were based on sketches, proposal specifications and his imagination. You might like WG design better, and that is perfectly OK, but I don't like it at all. Not just for Gibraltar, but even less for ships like Albemarle, Surrey or Goliath.

Tzoli's designs for Wartime RN cruisers look like enhanced versions of ships the RN actually built and which were significant milestones in cruiser design - Exeter, London, Southampton, Belfast. WG got it right on Albemarle and Drake, but Gibraltar is another offshoot from their "downsized Vanguard" idea and that just looks really strange. 

[Benser33]

Also WG continue to use this incorrect mast ever since Conqueror.

 

[Miscommunication_dept]

Keep thinking about Gilbralter. I really like AP cruisers and destroyers But it has only slightly more AP dpm than Goliath and no HE to fall back on

 

Gilbralter AP DPM: 265,000

Minotaur AP DPM: 600,000

Des Moines AP DPM: 490,000

 

It does just beat Petropavolosk though but has not much more than half the pen at range....

 

I'm a little underwhelmed.

 

[Mambo_King11]

En 6/8/2021 en 12:00, Astolfo_Is_My_Waifu dijo:

I was referring to WGs own convention of naming late-war cruisers after such entities as Drake, Neptune, Minotaur, Goliath and the so far unmentioned test ship Cyclops.

 

Not that I am complaining, Gibraltar is a fine name.

No It is not

 

Gibraltar is a part of Spanish Territories stolen from us by the British. And still is a shame in Europe. A colonie in a Europe country. Of course is not a fine name.

It is an insult to Spain.

[fumtu]

20 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

WG got it right on Albemarle

 

I would disagree here. WG basically simple modified Naptune hull to create Albemarle but I doubt that ships would look anything like that IRL. An old thread from this forum

 

 

Personally I don't like how WG represent RN CAs in the game at all. But that is just me.

[arczer25]

6 hours ago, gopher31 said:

Keep thinking about Gilbralter. I really like AP cruisers and destroyers But it has only slightly more AP dpm than Goliath and no HE to fall back on

 

Gilbralter AP DPM: 265,000

Minotaur AP DPM: 600,000

Des Moines AP DPM: 490,000

 

It does just beat Petropavolosk though but has not much more than half the pen at range....

 

I'm a little underwhelmed.

 

well usually improved pen angles were (until Russian CA came) with lower penetration, but yes it has very low DPM.
still we don't know it armor load-out and with improved pen angles it uses (DM, Russian or UK CL), also it uses different shells compared to Goliath so it penetration could be different (unless they consider current 234mm AP having "flat-topped ballistics")

[Miscommunication_dept]

I did wonder what they meant by flat topped ballistics as they then said short to medium range.

 

[Tzoli]

Okay... time to kill this thread by me commenting in it...

Wargaming cannot design a normal warship at all. Not even real ones...

Also I would not work with them, associating my works with their choices is a very bad idea for me.

If I have official sketches or drawings to use I use that as a basis, otherwise descriptions or in the end modifications of existing ships.

That ship you linked while lacks sketches the basis it uses is a real one:

There was another earlier attempt:

https://www.deviantart.com/tzoli/art/Royal-Navy-1938-Design-I-Armoured-Cruiser-868043849

 

Oh and names...

Sure give an armoured / heavy cruiser a name of a colony rather a county...

knowing that HMS Girbraltar was a name used for the 2nd Malta class carrier...

 

 

[Benser33]

12 hours ago, Tzoli said:

Not even real ones...

A pity that no one seems able to share the original sketch by WG John for the 23,700t cruiser upon which both goliath and gibraltar are based.

[Aragathor]

On 8/7/2021 at 7:56 PM, Mambo_King11 said:

No It is not

 

Gibraltar is a part of Spanish Territories stolen from us by the British. And still is a shame in Europe. A colonie in a Europe country. Of course is not a fine name.

It is an insult to Spain.

Seeing as Spain held Gibraltar for about 250 years, the British for over 300, and the Moors for over 770 years, we would need to determine the current rightful Nasrid claimant and return Gibraltar to him as judging by time he has the right.

 

Also article X of the treaty of Utrecht is a thing:

 

Spoiler

The Catholic King does hereby, for himself, his heirs and successors, yield to the Crown of Great Britain the full and entire propriety of the town and castle of Gibraltar, together with the port, fortifications, and forts thereunto belonging; and he gives up the said propriety to be held and enjoyed absolutely with all manner of right for ever, without any exception or impediment whatsoever.

 

[Mambo_King11]

 

Naming a British ship GIBRALTAR is surely something that Wargaming and this game do not need.

Provoking and insulting the Spanish player does not make any sense.
The fact that we don't have a single ship in this bloody game and not a single reference is pretty screwed up.
And now on top of this.

 

Thank you

[Miscommunication_dept]

26 minutes ago, Mambo_King11 said:

 

Naming a British ship GIBRALTAR is surely something that Wargaming and this game do not need.

Provoking and insulting the Spanish player does not make any sense.
The fact that we don't have a single ship in this bloody game and not a single reference is pretty screwed up.
And now on top of this.

 

Thank you

Oh dear 

 

[Chaos_Umbra]

2 hours ago, Mambo_King11 said:

 

Naming a British ship GIBRALTAR is surely something that Wargaming and this game do not need.

Provoking and insulting the Spanish player does not make any sense.
The fact that we don't have a single ship in this bloody game and not a single reference is pretty screwed up.
And now on top of this.

 

Thank you

So no chance of HMS Falklands? 

[Aragathor]

25 minutes ago, Chaos_Umbra said:

So no chance of HMS Falklands? 

We could go with HMS Trafalgar. Or even HMS Armada.

[Criseox]

Using Gibraltar as the name of a ship is a bad idea. It is a controversial name. Perhaps the designers of WG did not know that the use of the word Gibraltar can offend Spanish users in a totally unnecessary way.

It is possible that a Spaniard who plays a game where there is a "Gibraltar" will be affected in a bad way and this can have a negative impact on the experience of all the players in that game.

 

It is perfectly avoidable, it is unnecessary, that ship never existed. It is possible to give it another name that does not open wounds and by doing so the controversy will cease immediately.

---

[Miscommunication_dept]

The term "flat-topped ballistics" confused me as to what it means.

 

I now see in the Q&A that WG used the same term to describe Zao's firing arcs.

[WWDragon]

On 8/9/2021 at 5:13 PM, Aragathor said:

Gibraltar, from Jabal Tariq or Tariq's Mount. Named after Tariq ibn Ziyad, an 8th century Muslim leader. Very Spanish.

The corruption of the name, originally it was Mons Calpe that was a name lost in time.

 

Quote

This level of thonk stands right next to "Danzig ist Deutsch!". We had two world wars in Europe and hundred smaller ones before, over a line on the map or a rock in the sea.

 

Well to start the causes lead to both world wars were far more complex over a line on a map.

 

Danzig history is complicated so I will just highlight that the city was autonomous until the Teutonic Knights took over, when the city became part of of Prussian Confederation it was incorporated into the Kingdom of Poland at their (Prussian Confederation) request, then it was Annex by the Kingdom of Prussia and of later of the German Empire ... then the Great War happened and it became the Free City of Danzig as German lost territory and in another "what could possibly go wrong" treaty disconnect East Prussia from Germany with the Polish Corridor that even without a certain Austrian man was a problem waiting to happen, and thats the barebones version, its well more complicated.

 

Now look at how Spain lost Gibraltar, it was during the War of Spanish Succession of 1704 along Menorca that is Spanish, as well other things such as slave trading monopoly contract for the Spanish American Colonies known as Asiento de Negros (this was because the Spanish at the time rarely did  trans-Atlantic slave trade and outsourced it to whoever was more dominant in the trade with the Americas) that was then passed to the South Seas Company and considering its a British enclave in what its perceived to be Spanish territory its kinda like East Prussia, its a problem waiting to happen because its dependent on Spain to function.

[WWDragon]

USS Philippines that was the name of one of the Alaska-class cruisers and it wasnt named after the battle since it was cancelled in June 1943 (along with the other 3 ships not laid down), all Alaska-class cruisers were named after US Territories except that one that was named after the Commonwealth of the Philippines that makes one wonder exactly what were US plans for the Philippines, of course the US after the war ended was in a fever of anti-colonialism ... but before that, well ... one does wonder ...

 

But yes, there are some names that will raise eyebrows, Weimar is one because  yes, its the name of a town but the term Republik von Weimar come from a certain Austrian man that turned it mainstream so it would likely be renamed after he took power just like it happened to other ships, ah if only German ships could select historical naval ensigns ...

[1MajorKoenig]

22 hours ago, Aragathor said:

We could go with HMS Trafalgar. Or even HMS Armada.

Especially since the Brits are the Kings of strange/special/weird ship names - there are millions of good choices!
 

And even some true gems in there such as HMS Terror or HMS Magnificent 

[_Lupastro_]

I understand what you mean, but I believe that we must separate what is a game from nationalist or other ideals.

If in the game there was the Austrian branch of WW1 and the ships were called Radetzky, Lissa or Custoza should I feel offended as italian? No because it is simply history, is written in books. According to this reasoning then WG should not have used the name of Lepanto since the Venetian, Spanish and Austrian coalition kicked [edited]in Turks... And they should take offense..

[totally_potato]

On 8/5/2021 at 11:30 PM, YabbaCoe said:

Commanders

 

American Tier IX cruiser Tulsa, British Tier X cruiser Gibraltar and French Tier VI aircraft carrier Bearn have been added to the game for testing.

 

Read more

 

Please note that all information in the development blog is preliminary. Announced adjustments and features may change multiple times during testing. The final information will be published on our game's website.

So 

Super Minotaur

Des Memes Lite Junior

and Baguette CV?

Sounds like a meme and a half

 

I have to say tho, Bearn was a good candidate for T4 to start the French CV line. It as a prem makes me wonder what the actual T4 CV end up like.