Team damage is out, friendly torpedoes are in. Good or bad?

[_HomTanks_]

4 hours ago, SeaWolf7 said:

Amen. Taking away any process of thought will only make the game worse imo. You need to make the player care about his actions, not not give a sh*t.

What process of thought exactly? WG tried to make players care for years to no avail. And you are wrong about not not to give a sht which means you didn't even  check the new team damage mechanics. Players still have to care about their actions or they will face the consequences.

 

Old system was more protective of noobs and purposefully team killing psychos.  At least the new system has the automated option of banning such players.

 

[Spartan_Renegade]

On 8/4/2021 at 10:47 PM, MementoMori_6030 said:

You can't deliberately TK your useless teammates anymore. 

 

Ah... but you can still have a meltdown in the chatbox

 

 

 

 

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

Surprised that submarines can submerge in this game with how flat the game mechanics have become.

 

[Procrastes]

Thanks for your responses to this poll, everyone! 

 

While the number of votes is not nearly large enough to warrant any conclusions regarding the community as a whole, it is still worth stating that a clear majority of the voters prefer the old team damage system to the new. The main reason for preferring the old system seems to be a feeling that the new one represents a further simplification - or "dumbing down" - of the game mechanics, while the main argument for the new one seems to be that it limits the opportunities for griefing.

 

Personally I think both sides have presented valid arguments. It is worth noting that no one - me included - seems to regard the change as game breaking. I will also take the opportunity to thank everyone for taking part in such an open and friendly debate.

 

Best regards!

[Pikkozoikum]

I see no benefits of having teamdamage especially for Torpedos. In War Thunder Torpedos also don't do team damage.

 

1. It's not like an enemy could use a tactical advantage out of it.
2. Rarely player watch behind them, if allies drop torps.
3. Player from behind can't use them, because they know, they will run into them, or they drop and might do team damage.
4. Or it's bothering to have a communication via pinging and chatting and waiting, until someone notice, that a player wants to drop torpedos

I just see really no benefit in such a mechanic. Similar to detonations, though detonations can be funny (funny in away how jump scares can be also funny)

When I get detonated, it's so sudden and random, that I'm not even mad. But the torpedo team damage, when I play Yoshino, is really annoying me. It feels like a big relief, that I just can drop torpedos without any trouble

[159Hunter]

16 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

 

1. It's not like an enemy could use a tactical advantage out of it.

Well yes, in brawling when teamdamage was active other players needed to be careful if they wanted to chip in with their torps. So by clever positioning you could avoid eating torps.

Now they can just throw them in.

16 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

1. Rarely player watch behind them, if allies drop torps.
2. Player from behind can't use them, because they know, they will run into them, or they drop and might do team damage.
3. Or it's bothering to have a communication via pinging and chatting and waiting, until someone notice, that a player wants to drop torpedos

All this reads as "for a lot of players situational awareness and minimap reading is too hard". So let's just dumb down the game hoping that if people need to take less factors into account the gameplay will improve.

AKA dumbing down the game to teach playerbase.

 

I don't really have high hopes for this method.

[Pikkozoikum]

11 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

Well yes, in brawling when teamdamage was active other players needed to be careful if they wanted to chip in with their torps. So by clever positioning you could avoid eating torps.

Now they can just throw them in.

But that was in most cases a coincidence. I never did it or never saw it on stream, that someone said "I move now on a position, so the other ship can't torp me because of friendly fire"

It's also mostly not possible, because ships are too slow for such quick positioning.

So no real benefit of having it there. While it has a huge benefit for ships like Yoshino

 

12 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

All this reads as "for a lot of players situational awareness and minimap reading is too hard". So let's just dumb down the game hoping that if people need to take less factors into account the gameplay will improve.

AKA dumbing down the game to teach playerbase.

I don't agree there, it has nothing to do with situational awareness, if a teammate has to expect team damage... Also the player, who wants to drop torpedos can't do much. If I drop Yoshino torps from 18 km away, then a very fast Kleber will still be able to reach them, even if he is very, very far away. I  had that once (after team damage change) That a kelber was not even somewhere in view, but he was so fast, he managed to catch them, while the enemy was moving away from the position, they were before.

 

Also it has 0 to do with dumbing down. There are many games with and without friendly fire. Some are very complex without friendly fire, and some are quite simple with friendly fire.

In Magicka you have friendly fire, a quite simple game.

In War Thunder you don't have friendly fire (torpedos),

 

Especially from my point of view it's not dumbed down. Before I couldn't torp, because of team mates. Now I can torp. There is no complexity in it, only an annoyance

[159Hunter]

2 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

But that was in most cases a coincidence. I never did it or never saw it on stream, that someone said "I move now on a position, so the other ship can't torp me because of friendly fire"

It's also mostly not possible, because ships are too slow for such quick positioning.

So no real benefit of having it there. While it has a huge benefit for ships like Yoshino

Then you never did proper brawling / don't know how to read minimap.

2 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I don't agree there, it has nothing to do with situational awareness, if a teammate has to expect team damage... Also the player, who wants to drop torpedos can't do much. If I drop Yoshino torps from 18 km away, then a very fast Kleber will still be able to reach them, even if he is very, very far away. I  had that once (after team damage change) That a kelber was not even somewhere in view, but he was so fast, he managed to catch them, while the enemy was moving away from the position, they were before.

So dropping torps that can hit a teamm8 has nothing to do with situational awareness? Then why does this forum, in every single topic that popped up said: your torps = your responsability?

How would you call the skill that would make you judge if your torps can or cannot hit a friendly?

2 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Also it has 0 to do with dumbing down. There are many games with and without friendly fire. Some are very complex without friendly fire, and some are quite simple with friendly fire.

In Magicka you have friendly fire, a quite simple game.

In War Thunder you don't have friendly fire (torpedos),

So you remove a skill based item from the game and it is not dumbing down the game?

2 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Especially from my point of view it's not dumbed down. Before I couldn't torp, because of team mates. Now I can torp. There is no complexity in it, only an annoyance

LOL, no complexity? 

You couldn't torp because you were out of position to torp and now you can torp from any position. But sure, positioning is not a complex item...

 

 

[ReapingKnight]

I think this changed the way player 'grief' others now.

 

Now instead of shooting team mates until they get kicked out or blow up themselves, now they just play the selfish game of sailing to back\side of map and not helping.

[159Hunter]

2 hours ago, ReapingKnight said:

I think this changed the way player 'grief' others now.

 

Now instead of shooting team mates until they get kicked out or blow up themselves, now they just play the selfish game of sailing to back\side of map and not helping.

So basicly your average potato in a BB 

 

Unfortunately it is a known tactic, in the past there were a few notorious 'players' doing that. 

[Migantium_Mashum]

The only positive thing I can say is that both teams have the same advantage or disadvantage... removing friendly damage and penalties in my opinion just dumbs down this game even further... 

 

It means the boom boom brigade don't have to try they can just fire their guns, launch their torps hoping for the best... Hardly anything to boast about...

 

 

Maybe in 2022 this will be the War Gaming new target age range...

 

 

 

 

[DDMafiaAssociateMember]

Terrible change; I can no longer teamkill FDR players.

[lameoll]

i love that i can now just torp with wherever.

 

its sad that the dumbing down of the game was actualy needed.

 

But at least i can now just torp wherever and deny my full hp bb a ram with a 1 HP bb

[159Hunter]

1 hour ago, lameoll said:

But at least i can now just torp wherever and deny my full hp bb a ram with a 1 HP bb

Guns maybe 

[Sir_Sinksalot]

This was the subject of some debate in WoT's when friendly fire damage was removed too but when we lived with it for a few weeks and got used to it, overall most concluded that it was more beneficial without FF than with it.

 

The argument made to keep FF was that it made players have to play with some consideration and not simply fire indiscriminately into pack of players from both teams without consequence for hitting one of your own, and basically without FF it dumbs the game down. To a point, this is true.

 

But when all players "got on with it" they quickly adapted to the new non-FF meta and most concluded the pros heavily outweighed the cons. In WoWS, I've come to the same conclusions and looked for FF to be removed a few weeks after it was removed from WoT so I'm happy with the move tbh. While there is a good "you need to use your brain!" attribute to keeping FF, overall there was just way too many "pink" status ships on the screen most every battle which meant that players were clearly hitting their own teammates rather regularly either intentionally or unintentionally.

 

FF was also an outlet for salty sailors to vent on their teammates. They now can't and this is a good thing. Same with noobs trying to torp a target via shooting "through" your ship plus there was moments when a teammate, for no logical reason, that was sailing flank speed in one direction would turn back across a wall of friendly torpedoes. As for artillery strikes on teammates? It was rare and not very damaging so that being true then removing it won't be any problem either since it was rarely a feature and therefore no real argument to keep it either. 

 

[lameoll]

6 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

Guns maybe 

HEY if i play my shimakaze! i will not shoot ! 

[VenividiviciNL]

Team damage has been removed from the game to prevent players to TK their CV and the soon to be released team subs as they are the most hated classes. There is no other reason for WG doing so..........

 

It is considered to be "unsportsmanlike conduct" to kill your own team members, especially the above mentioned ones.

 

A pitty it has been removed, as I do liked to torp my CV's occasionally on purpose, when having the chance for doing so 

[T0ffer]

Originally, I was indifferent to the change but the other evening I was brawliing with another BB, circling each other around 3km. Then, lot's of little parachutes come floating down amongst us and it just felt so unfair.

 

I suppose it's no different to torping brawlers but an area effect weapon that only hurts one side felt so wrong.

 

[Cirno9999]

i like the new system - hate me all you like , no rewards for teamkillers after game is nice . people play more attentive now with torps . i play co op only and since it gone live i havent seen a single pinky