Team damage is out, friendly torpedoes are in. Good or bad?

[Procrastes]

Hello!

 

I am a bit curious about how people feel about the recent removal of team damage from WoWs, which came with update 0.10.5. I am somewhat ambivalent to the change myself.

 

On the one hand, having team damage in the game added immersion value/realism as well as a valuable challenge and tactical factor with regards to (first and foremost) the deployment of torpedoes. As an attacker, you had to be always careful so as to ensure that no ally would risk being hit by your torpedoes. As a defender, you could usually (or at least ideally) count on being somewhat safe from incoming torpedoes as long as you kept "torpedo-less" enemy ships between you and enemies that carried torpedoes.

 

On the other hand, most of us have probably been in situations where we have ended up sinking or being sunk by allies due to a careless launch of torpedoes from second line. I believe that most of these cases have been accidental - by which I mean that they were not the result of either deliberate carelessness or intentional game sabotage - but there have certainly also been many cases of intentional team damage. This can no longer happen, which is obviously a good thing in itself. But does it outhweigh the loss of immersion value and tactical options?

 

On the whole, I believe it does. I think this was a good change overall, since it removes team damage both as a source of intense embarrassment and as a means of intentional griefing. This, to my mind, outweighs whatever benefits were offered by the old system.

 

On a more personal note, I suspect that the removal of team damage will not change my own way of playing the game by much. I will probably still be very reluctant to fire torpedoes in a situation where I see even the slightest risk of hitting an ally. This will be partly down to the well known difficulty of teaching old dogs new tricks, but also due to an adherence to a sort of unspoken code of conduct. There is a certain way in which things should be done, and torping your team mate is not it. It is bad form, and will thus damage my self esteem even though it can no longer damage my ally. I am not saying that any of this makes sense; it is just the way I am wired.*

 

 

 

* Plus, as it turns out, torping team mates can still turn you pink. See post #16 below. So there is that as well.

[Gvozdika]

Meh - I didn't get torpedoed all THAT often by friendlies. Usually my platoon-mate @Vasilek was the culprit due to his erm.... unique approach to weapons employment. The old bugger can't shoot straight. However I digress.

 

Possibly a sign that the game is being dumbed down progressively to the lowest common denominator - I don't know. The penalty for accidentally torping an ally encouraged people to be careful (usually) and it meant there were consequences for stupid actions. Doesn't really impact those of us who didn't lob our torps at the enemy team from 5km behind our team. Makes the game more user-friendly for those special cookies of the 'thinking more than 5s ahead is hard' mentality who do...... of whom a reasonable proportion are paying customers. 

 

That sounds so cynical - yet you know I'm right! 

[MementoMori_6030]

You can't deliberately TK your useless teammates anymore. 

[Procrastes]

15 hours ago, Gvozdika said:

Meh - I didn't get torpedoed all THAT often by friendlies...

 

Possibly a sign that the game is being dumbed down progressively to the lowest common denominator - I don't know. The penalty for accidentally torping an ally encouraged people to be careful (usually) and it meant there were consequences for stupid actions. Doesn't really impact those of us who didn't lob our torps at the enemy team from 5km behind our team. Makes the game more user-friendly for those special cookies of the 'thinking more than 5s ahead is hard' mentality who do...... of whom a reasonable proportion are paying customers. 

 

That sounds so cynical - yet you know I'm right! 

 

Good points, all! And I agree that the removal of team damage is yet another aspect where this game is being "dumbed down", which is a bit of a loss since it will probably be interpreted by many special cookies impulse-driven individuals as an encouragement to spam their torpedoes all over the place. But, to pick up on the cynical thread, wouldn't they most likely have done so anyway...?

 

 

14 hours ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

You can't deliberately TK your useless teammates anymore.

Ok, I'll bite. 

 

Three points:

1. You also can't be deliberately TK:ed by your useless team mates anymore.

2. You can in good conscience spend your gaming time on more fruitful pursuits than sorting your useless team mates from the merely barely useful ones*.

3. You can drop the yoga mindset even in games where you are teamed up with a Yoshino.

 

 

* Such as me.

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 5 Minuten, Procrastes sagte:

1. You also can't be deliberately TK:ed by your useless team mates anymore.

I was fine with being TKed - it was a faster way than yoloing to leave a clearly doomed game.

Zitat

2. You can in good conscience spend your gaming time on more fruitful pursuits than sorting your useless team mates from the merely barely useful ones* (and then weeding out the former).

Typing insults in chat takes more time than torping, so my workload increased.

Zitat

3. You can drop the yoga mindset even in games where you are teamed up with a Yoshino.

In those rare cases when I play high tiers, it's ME in the Yoshino...

[BrusilovX]

I preferred the old system as it made me think before firing off one of more sets of torps.

 

I've found that since the change I've been less worried about firing torps.  I don't think that is good.  The only consequence is that there are less torps to hit enemy ships with.

 

I do understand why players could prefer to the change though.

 

[lovelacebeer]

I much preferred the old system, sure I would eat the odd torp from a second line cruiser player but I liked the realism. However in order for subs to be introduced WG sadly found it necessary to remove friendly fire. 

[gabberworld]

i prefer old version but then again, if you torpedo careless you lose change hit the enemy.

[Procrastes]

Just now, lovelacebeer said:

...in order for subs to be introduced WG sadly found it necessary to remove friendly fire. 

You are saying that the removal of team damage is connected to the introduction of submarines? 

Please, elaborate! Why would Wargaming make such a connection?

[Aragathor]

With the dropping intelligence and skill of the player base this change has been a blessing. Never again will a second line Yoshino ruin a dd in cap, never again will a scumbag drive into your torps on purpose.

It's a good change and will result in much less grief.

[gabberworld]

1 minute ago, Procrastes said:

You are saying that the removal of team damage is connected to the introduction of submarines? 

Please, elaborate! Why would Wargaming make such a connection?

 

its nothing todo with subs, people not liked that they get all the time ht by noobs

[Molly_Delaney]

Prefer the old version as I've seen a few people deliberately intercept my torpedoes with their boat to kill what my torps would have.

Plus WG have removed the satisfaction of delivering a full broadside into your useless team mates before hitting escape & quitting

 

And yet I'm still seeing pink players

[lovelacebeer]

1 minute ago, Procrastes said:

You are saying that the removal of team damage is connected to the introduction of submarines? 

Please, elaborate! Why would Wargaming make such a connection?

 

Due to the nature of how Destroyers and ASW airstrikes work against submarines it’s very common that a friendly vessel is in the same area. I doubt many submarine players would appreciate being depth charged by their teammates whilst spotting the enemy. 

 

Also due to the fact sub torps can change direction as well as depth it’s very easy to hit friendly ships by accident, although that’s less likely the reason it’s much more to do with how hunting submarines has been designed. 

[Procrastes]

6 minutes ago, Molly_Delaney said:

Prefer the old version as I've seen a few people deliberately intercept my torpedoes with their boat to kill what my torps would have.

I have to admit, I never heard that one before. I guess griefers will always find a way to grief, right?

 

6 minutes ago, Molly_Delaney said:

And yet I'm still seeing pink players

That's interesting. I wonder how that can be. Maybe team damage is still being registered as a "pinking offence", in order to discourage the behaviour? If so, this is a good thing as far as it would work.

[MannequinSkywalker]

10 minutes ago, lovelacebeer said:

but I liked the realism.

You mean like not sinking ships when two allied ships ram each other?

[MannequinSkywalker]

2 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

That's interesting. I wonder how that can be. Maybe team damage is still being registered as a "pinking offence", in order to discourage the behaviour? If so, this is a good thing as far as it would work.

Yes, team damage is still registered as offense and it has consequences;

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/general-news/combat-discipline/

 

[gabberworld]

4 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

I have to admit, I never heard that one before. I guess griefers will always find a way to grief, right?

 

That's interesting. I wonder how that can be. Maybe team damage is still being registered as a "pinking offence", in order to discourage the behaviour? If so, this is a good thing as far as it would work.

afk gives you pink as well when reported

[Procrastes]

4 minutes ago, MannequinSkywalker said:

You mean like not sinking ships when two allied ships ram each other?

If being rammed by an ally had done full ramming damage, it would immediately have topped the list as a cause of death. What with how small the maps in WoWs are, allied ships start out - and keep moving - in far closer proximity to one another than they would have in any (sane) real life naval battle environment.

[lovelacebeer]

3 minutes ago, MannequinSkywalker said:

You mean like not sinking ships when two allied ships ram each other?

 

If we go down the whole list of unrealistic aspects to this game we will be here a long time, but I still appreciate what little realism there was, mind you given how things are going apparently WG feels differently. 

[MannequinSkywalker]

4 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

If being rammed by an ally had done full ramming damage, it would immediately have topped the list as a cause of death. What with how small the maps in WoWs are, allied ships start out - and keep moving - in far closer proximity to one another than they would have in any (sane) real life naval battle environment.

Your assumption leads into a different discussion. Regardless, of what you think would happen, it wasn't realistic, was it?

[invicta2012]

Just now, Procrastes said:

Maybe team damage is still being registered as "pinking offence", in order to discourage the behaviour? If so, this is a good thing as far as it would work.

Certainly is, you can be made pink for repeated carelessness. Also leaving a game early - that's the usual reason for pink panthers in a game. 

 

7 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

With the dropping intelligence and skill of the player base this change has been a blessing. Never again will a second line Yoshino ruin a dd in cap, never again will a scumbag drive into your torps on purpose.

It's a good change and will result in much less grief.

Agree with that. It's made some ships (like Yudachi) playable again. 

[Nibenay78]

FF should be on full power. A tiny margin for mistakes should be allowed and consistant FF should have a massive penalty.

[MannequinSkywalker]

1 minute ago, lovelacebeer said:

 

If we go down the whole list of unrealistic aspects to this game we will be here a long time, but I still appreciate what little realism there was, mind you given how things are going apparently WG feels differently. 

Well you wrote you liked the realism before the changes and i just reminded you some unrealistic stuff. There is nothing realistic in this game including the previously registered torp damage.

[Procrastes]

13 minutes ago, MannequinSkywalker said:

Yes, team damage is still registered as offense and it has consequences;

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/general-news/combat-discipline/

 

This is good to know, thanks for the information! 

 

With these mechanics in place, the regulations for team damage are actually a lot better than I thought. So kudos to Wargaming for that!

(And yes, I obviously should have read up on all of this beforehand. My powers of forum-fu are weak!)

[lovelacebeer]

3 minutes ago, MannequinSkywalker said:

There is nothing realistic in this game including the previously registered torp damage.

 

What exactly do you mean here? Do torpedos not do damage in real life?