Submarines in Ranked and Co-op Battles

[Hugh_Ruka]

4 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Actually, what you mention here is not a niche. because most long-distance submarines of the japanese were all three of them or at least one of them. They were cruiser subs (140mm deck guns), they had often recon planes or later dive bomber and they were also used for supply runs for dangerous locations.

And those subs existed in a quite large number, idk mabe 50 to 100? Is quite a mess to check, which sub had those stuff

But alone the Typ B had around 20 submarines with 140mm and recon plane

 

It say "intended role" which means, they were planned for that. Not primary and always. But also it say "typical mission", which means, that actually did that. And you have to keep in mind, it's a game. Especially in WoWS counts: If it existed in what way ever, then it's possible in this game. In every game, submarines will go for Warships, even for taskforces and fleet. Because it's a game, they are supposed to be fun, and sinking merchant ships for 100h is maybe not that much fun.

 

It's not impossible, Steel ocean had submarines, and they worked quite well. It was fun against them and playing them. Actually, they often felt a bit weak, because DDs could sink them so easily

 

But ye, I had fun to play against them on PTS and TST. Especially dropping DCs as DD on them is much fun. I jsut wish, that DCs would have to be more aimed and that it has to be more of a "guessing" game, where to drop

 

I made also a quite big feedback comment, what I would change. So yes, I woudl change some stuff, but I also think, that the current version kinda works, even with disliking some stuff.

 yes, all those "niche" ones were not primarily combatants, their designed role was something different. after all each warship can fulfill the role of (submarine) after certain conditions are met ... see what I did there ?

 

never played Steel Ocean, cannot say anything abut that. question is WHEN were submarines added to that game and how did the playerbase react ?

[Pikkozoikum]

1 minute ago, hellhound666 said:

the times when i trusted smthg said by lesta/wg are long gone

there is no reason to assume that people who haven't expressed their feelings are pro subs - for now in all mediums against are far more people than pro

Yes, that's up to you, but what he said makes sense to me and kinda fits with my own experience^^

If you go into a HE-Meta thread, you won't find many, who will say "oh yes, we need more HE spam". Same for CV. I could also imagine, even if you open a Thread with "DD-Meta", there will be a lot of negativtiy

 

[Hugh_Ruka]

1 minute ago, Arty_McFly said:

This thread is about subs in ranked and co-op. Posts about co-op changes in the last patch, not even mentioning subs in any way are off-topic. We are in contact with the CMs every day. If they are not happy with our moderation, they will tell us. Since they want valuable feedback on subs in ranked and co-op, we need to keep this thread clean. If you are not happy with the moderation, you can always contact @YabbaCoe via pm.

As mentioned above, let's get back to topic now. If you have any further questions, please use the pm function.

So people not wanting subs to be added to coop because coop is unplayable since last patch because of bot pathing issues and they'd rather have the bots fixed first and THEN subs added is not constructive. Says a lot about the direction you were given. Ignore whatever is broken and just focus on the next new feature is not very confidence inspiring (oh god I butchered that sentence).

 

You are just increasing the frustration of coop players as (maybe I have missed it) I have not seen any acknowledgment from WG about the bot issues from last patch. So the coop players are desperately trying to get attention where they can.

 

Can you blame them for that ? I mean a simple pinned post in current update section about the issue being worked on would be enough.

[johncl]

I think sub's could be great for the game ....The problem is I don't trust WG to do a good job ..I would go on to say they are most likely going to make a MASSIVE mess of the implementation

Making the game much less enjoyable to play ...

 

 

Like CV rework 

Commander rework 

USA fatburg BB line 

Boring German DD line 

Bland as all hell Italian BB line  

 

Here is 5 out of the last 7 patches  that range from epic fail ..to mediocre at best ..

[Pikkozoikum]

2 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

yes, all those "niche" ones were not primarily combatants, their designed role was something different. after all each warship can fulfill the role of (submarine) after certain conditions are met ... see what I did there ?

Funny enough, in that video, where I posted the screenshot, was mentioning, that BBs often become support, land-bombardment and AA escort ships. So technically, BBs are also wrong in this game. DDs were mostly escort and aa support ships. In this game, they are more likely very influencial ninjas.

 

4 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

never played Steel Ocean, cannot say anything abut that. question is WHEN were submarines added to that game and how did the playerbase react ?

I think they were implemented to release. But it's hard to say, what community said, because that game didn't become very popular and never got the meta like in World Of Warships. People actually played for fun ;D

But the gameplay is very, very similar to World of Warships. Steel ocean is like a very early beta/alpha of Warships, or even like WoT just with ships. You had this crosshair, which gets tighter, when not moving and turning

 

 

[Arty_McFly]

2 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

Can you blame them for that ? I mean a simple pinned post in current update section about the issue being worked on would be enough.

There is a simple solution: Start a constructive, well explained and well written thread about it. Or even better, use this thread: Update 0.10.6 - Bug Reports. That would be the correct place to talk about bugs which were introduced in the last patch.

[Pikkozoikum]

3 minutes ago, johncl said:

I think sub's could be great for the game ....The problem is I don't trust WG to do a good job ..I would go on to say they are most likely going to make a MASSIVE mess of the implementation

Making the game much less enjoyable to play ...

 

 

Like CV rework 

Commander rework 

USA fatburg BB line 

Boring German DD line 

Bland as all hell Italian BB line  

 

Here is 5 out of the last 7 patches  that range from epic fail ..to mediocre at best ..

Yes, if feels often like, they have a weird process like

 

Step 1: History deparment comes up with cool historical stuff

Step 2: Devs try to implement stuff

Step 3: Managers say, could it be less "eeh-history" and more fancy for the cool kidz?

[Hugh_Ruka]

8 minutes ago, Arty_McFly said:

There is a simple solution: Start a constructive, well explained and well written thread about it. Or even better, use this thread: Update 0.10.6 - Bug Reports. That would be the correct place to talk about bugs which were introduced in the last patch.

Guess what, there are very rarely any acknowledgments from WG in that bug report thread about reported issues. And there are several complaints about the coop state in that exact thread you linked. There are even specific posts in Current update section. Again without ANY response.

[Hugh_Ruka]

10 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Yes, if feels often like, they have a weird process like

 

Step 1: History deparment comes up with cool historical stuff

Step 2: Devs try to implement stuff

Step 3: Managers say, could it be less "eeh-history" and more fancy for the cool kidz?

Unfortunately there's no:

 

Step 4: make it balanced

Step 5: make it fun to play

[Maris_Piper]

16 minutes ago, Arty_McFly said:

This thread is about subs in ranked and co-op. Posts about co-op changes in the last patch, not even mentioning subs in any way are off-topic. We are in contact with the CMs every day. If they are not happy with our moderation, they will tell us. Since they want valuable feedback on subs in ranked and co-op, we need to keep this thread clean. If you are not happy with the moderation, you can always contact @YabbaCoe via pm.

As mentioned above, let's get back to topic now. If you have any further questions, please use the pm function.

Community Managers will be very happy if posts are removed that don't go with the WG Flow, so appealing will be pretty pointless and a moderator appointed by Wargamming on a Wargamming Forum is doing what they were meant to do TBH.

 

PS.. I'm not complaining about my post being edited as it was pretty descriptive to say the least,  

 

10. 9.8.7

[Pikkozoikum]

7 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

Unfortunately there's no:

 

Step 4: make it balanced

Step 5: make it fun to play

Well, I see step 3 as an issue. That why we have stuff like the J5N on Hakuryu (J5N was an interceptor twin-engine fighter from land-airfields. Here it is a TB and DB... ^^. I think, because it looks cool an fancy, to have such aircraft)

[hedgehog_s]

OK just come from a typical 3 minute 30 second co op battle where one of our BOT DDs rammed the enemy BOT DD - if this continues - what happens when maybe your only ASW ship was a bot DD that ram kills itself in 45 seconds ???

 

 

[5h1ny]

Not for me but thanks for telling me about it

I suppose if I wanted to play submarines I'd find something that catered for it

 

Here's a thought though, seeing as your development team is using Wikipedia as a guide to what a warship is, could you get them to introduce amphibious assault ships so I can drive a tank on to some of those islands in the capture zones, having a tank in this game will bring some much needed diversity 

[YabbaCoe]

29 minutes ago, Maris_Piper said:

Community Managers will be very happy if posts are removed that don't go with the WG Flow, so appealing will be pretty pointless and a moderator appointed by Wargamming on a Wargamming Forum is doing what they were meant to do TBH.

 

PS.. I'm not complaining about my post being edited as it was pretty descriptive to say the least,  

 

10. 9.8.7

Btw to your information, those replies were only hidden, not removed or deleted. So I can still see everything, that was written in this thread.

[Pikkozoikum]

6 minutes ago, hedgehog_s said:

OK just come from a typical 3 minute 30 second co op battle where one of our BOT DDs rammed the enemy BOT DD - if this continues - what happens when maybe your only ASW ship was a bot DD that ram kills itself in 45 seconds ???

 

 

Go for the caps or deplete the DivCap of the sub. Quite similar, when you have only 1 DD and your DD dies, while you got no Radarship or anything, that could spot

[Maris_Piper]

4 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

Btw to your information, those replies were only hidden, not removed or deleted. So I can still see everything, that was written in this thread.

Oh I know how it Works YC, and my idea's for the New Submarine Pens still applies 

[Dan7e_DMC]

22 hours ago, Arty_McFly said:

We don't want to talk about co-op battles in a sub thread, that's why your post was removed. Also, "we don't want them" is not constructive.

How about we don't want them in the game because a WG employee stated that they don't fit into the heirarchy of the game?  Stop trying to shoe horn in a class that fundamentally breaks the core mechanics of the game.  Wait have we been here before? I feel like we have been here before with CV's. (a topic for another day).  Battleships will basically become food for CV's and subs.  The ASW is laughable at best.  DDs will have far more on their plate to deal with when subs go live (as if they didnt have enough already). 

This is just a bad addition to the game.  I have closed my spending to wargaming and do not forsee this changing as they are killing the game with

A. Predatory monetization (Loot boxes, etc)

B. Severe lack of balance

C. Lack of development resources into things that make the game a fun and exciting experience. (Maps, etc)

Don't get me wrong, new ships are great... however it is just a rinse and repeat of the same thing.  It gets horribly boring constantly spamming games to grind ship lines.  Atleast if we had some new maps to learn it would spice things up at all tiers.

[ghostbuster_]

1 hour ago, Arty_McFly said:

 

What are we supposed to edit, if the whole post is unconstructive, off-topic and/or violating the forum rules? If you read the whole thread again, you will see that we actually do edit posts, if only small parts are against the rules.

Well you can say unconstructive literally for any post you want. What you should edit? The insults etc. 

Btw. These posts you posted to answer us are along with our posts also off topic. Are you gonna delete these too? 

1 hour ago, Arty_McFly said:

 

That's wrong. The forum is one part of the feedback. Surveys are another part. Active players in the game or number of battles in a certain time frame can be feedback, too.
That's why constructive feedback is important. It can actullay bring up ideas which might be considered. A rant is just what I wrote above: Part of a loud minority.

Thats not wrong. Show me one other platform which can be accessed by any player? 

Which surveys? I didnt see a mandatory ingame survey yet. 

Again, maybe people are sick and tired of seeing their constructive feedback thrown into junk? Constructive feedback actually takes more time than a quick rant. Considering non of the constructive feedbacks was taken into consideration by WG in last at least 3 years, why should people bother with it?

Btw. Thanks to that "loud minority" you are a moderator. Dont forget it.

1 hour ago, Arty_McFly said:

 

As I already mentioned, I don't want to see subs in ranked myself. Do I start a riot? No. Why? Because it won't change anything. Let's see how subs work. Maybe it's not as bad as we predict. Even if it doesn't work, it's just one season of ranked and if there are huge problems, WG can always revert their decision and rework the concept.

You are either extremely naive or really new here...

1 hour ago, Arty_McFly said:

A game is not static, it's always in developement. Sometimes it just needs some time to make things work.

And how should a game developer act in this time? Maybe take the suggestions / feedbacks of experoenced players into consideration? Maybe create a heatly testing ground instead of testing it on crap like PTS? Maybe test them in a health test ground before introduce them into live server?

[hedgehog_s]

This is how intelligent WG are - just popped up in NEWS in the game, read it nice bonus code to redeem - that ran out 3 days ago - seriously ??

 

[Strothy]

how to piss off the whole competitive community at once... GG WP also keep this crap out of the game, you broke it to pieces just to add those those POC subs...

[MixuS]

1. Collect forum feedback from subs
2. Label that feedback "loud minority"
3. Don't offer any kind of way to provide feedback that would be "balanced" by your standards
4. ???
5. Profit (aka pretend that subs are fine and push them out)

[VenividiviciNL]

3 hours ago, Arty_McFly said:

Most likely, subs are not wanted by a loud minority. Only a small precentage of the player base does actually use the forum. Players who just don't care about subs have no reason to post in this topic. Players who are looking forward to subs have no reason to post in this topic either. They will get their subs anyway. That's why the comments are mostly negative.

 

In my experience (not only in WoWs, also in other games), ~80% of the players just play the game and don't care about forums or similar platforms. Those who do post on the forum, often do it if they don't agree with something. If you are happy with the game, there is just no reason to post on the forum, right?

 

Also, insults and vulgarism won't change anything. Constructive feedback might be considered. That's another reason why ranting is just a waste of time.

Dear moderator,

 

Could it not be that the majority of NON-forumites have any knowledge of the existence of WG's forum website? Your assumption that the current forumites are a "loud" minority of WG's playerbase is therefore an useless remark.

 

Furthermore, despite one your of previous posts in this thread stating that you are NOT a WG employee, you are defending WG in such a way that it looks the other way. Your job is to moderate (as a volunteer?) and restrain from any comments on a thread unless you make this comment on your personal behalf, without your job description as moderator (constructive feedback from my side to you). 

 

Last but not least, if subs are going to be released in all modes in their current form, I would like to suggest that dd's, cruisers and bb's which carry torps are also having the opportunity to get those homing torps. For sure that I finally hit something with them, if you consider the torpedo bug (constructive feedback).

 

Have fun and enjoy the game as long as it lasts..... 

[KillStealBoss]

Seems like this thread is even worse than CV threads back in the days of rework.

Anyways

The first week of PTS it was chaos in ranked there with 3 subs per team, the BB was unable to push or do anything meaningful. Even playing cruisers was bad experience. 

The last weekend of PTS in most battles it was one sub per team only. This was waaaay better. But having 2 subs per team in my opinion it’s not good. 1 is ok and you should make it only 1. 

The best team composition 

2 BBs/1 BB and 1 CV

2 CA/CL

2 DDs

1 Sub.

I think it won’t be hard to implement such thing.

[mel1111]

You REALLY want to lose your clients don't you? No ranked for me. 

As you can see in this forum I am not alone in this. You are raping this game step by step until you have nobody left

 

This once started as a very nice game with 40000 players at high time. Nowadays that is back to 50% of the initial public. 

 

Anyway, there are lots of other games to play. Have fun losing your clientele

[KillStealBoss]

2 minutes ago, mel1111 said:

You REALLY want to lose your clients don't you? No ranked for me. 

As you can see in this forum I am not alone in this. You are raping this game step by step until you have nobody left

 

This once started as a very nice game with 40000 players at high time. Nowadays that is back to 50% of the initial public. 

 

Anyway, there are lots of other games to play. Have fun losing your clientele

I remember once it was 47k people at the peak time in January 2018 steel farming snowflake event