Submarines in Ranked and Co-op Battles

[Obidav]

1 hour ago, Castigador said:

Do the people at WG realize that this just confirms that they don´t listen to the community?

A grand majority of players does not want subs, stop forcing them through our throat.

They don't care. Just look what happened after the last sht*storm : nothing...

[Pedro_McCloud]

I have been really enjoying the subs and the underwater world if incredible, but then again I'm always for diversity.

 

Just out of curiosity though, why are they hated so much?

[Xylum]

14 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

We don't have ETA on that yet. But yes, they are planned to be implemented to other game modes in future.

When can we expect to see subs in the tech trees also?

[YabbaCoe]

9 hours ago, Xylum said:

When can we expect to see subs in the tech trees also?

Once they will be fully implemented to randoms and other game modes. Now they are in some kind of special Early Access

[Xylum]

8 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

Once they will be fully implemented to randoms and other game modes. Now they are in some kind of special Early Access

Excellent, thank you for your replies :)

[hedgehog_s]

So having played co ops now since the Sub intro I can honestly say I have had more fun watching paint dry. There needs to be the following to make this work.

 

1) A hard limit of 2 subs per team.

 

2) A hard limit of 3 DDs per team.

 

3) Those ships with no ASW need hydro that ACTUALLY detects subs so they can be of use instead of playing pin the tail on the donkey for 3 minutes at the end of each game.

 

4') There needs to be another counter to the pings. Just played Des Moines, no ASW, running hydro, used DC to put out 2 fires. 5 seconds later I eat 6 homing missiles and die - impossible to detect or avoid - utterly frustrating and stupid.

 

The fact there is so much less HP to farm (generally 4 DDS and 3 subs) does not add to the gaming experience.

 

Should a game you once loved leave you feeling bored, frustrated and angry ? I dont think so and nor should you WG.

 

 

[Nikolas______]

submarine = the start of the end for this game...

 Πριν από 1 ώρα

 

 79 απαντήσεις

[YabbaCoe]

23 hours ago, hedgehog_s said:

So having played co ops now since the Sub intro I can honestly say I have had more fun watching paint dry. There needs to be the following to make this work.

 

1) A hard limit of 2 subs per team.

 

2) A hard limit of 3 DDs per team.

 

3) Those ships with no ASW need hydro that ACTUALLY detects subs so they can be of use instead of playing pin the tail on the donkey for 3 minutes at the end of each game.

 

4') There needs to be another counter to the pings. Just played Des Moines, no ASW, running hydro, used DC to put out 2 fires. 5 seconds later I eat 6 homing missiles and die - impossible to detect or avoid - utterly frustrating and stupid.

 

The fact there is so much less HP to farm (generally 4 DDS and 3 subs) does not add to the gaming experience.

 

Should a game you once loved leave you feeling bored, frustrated and angry ? I dont think so and nor should you WG.

 

 

We keep that in mind, that there definitely should be some limits of ships of these classes, including submarines. Can't tell you know, which exact limits there will be, but we are considering several variants for sure. And addition of submarines to most played game mode, random battles, will definitely have an impact on soft and hard rules of current surface ships.

We are also gathering and investigating all the data about Subs and also against subs and after proper analysis of those gathered data we can decide what to do with ASW armament and its distribution. Can't promise you anything, but it is possible, there will be some changes.

 

[NervousWreck]

9 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

addition of submarines to most played game mode, random battles, will definitely have an impact .......

Really? With great respect, the introduction of 30 odd knot subs with super-speed homing missiles into a game mode where half the remaining vessels they will encounter have no way of combating them was bound to have an impact, to say the least. BBs are now becoming an endangered species in Co-op. Games are filled with 4 DDs and/or 3 subs per team that spend the last 3 minutes of each game searching for the surviving sub after everything on the surface has been obliterated in a blizzard of torpedoes.....  

 

9 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

We are also gathering and investigating all the data about Subs and also against subs and after proper analysis of those gathered data we can decide what to do .......

But this is on the live server. Is it not a little late for gathering data and deciding what to do?

To be honest, and again with great respect, the substantial buff to subs immediately prior to their introduction on the live server would suggest that WG didn't know what it was doing, then or now ......

 

I'm a poor player YabbaCoe, and I can struggle with the game at the best of times. That's why I confine myself to Co-op mostly these days. But I really shudder to think what will happen if many of the really talented players here decide that they fancy playing subs in random in their current broken iteration. 

[YabbaCoe]

11 hours ago, spurs1959 said:

Really? With great respect, the introduction of 30 odd knot subs with super-speed homing missiles into a game mode where half the remaining vessels they will encounter have no way of combating them was bound to have an impact, to say the least. BBs are now becoming an endangered species in Co-op. Games are filled with 4 DDs and/or 3 subs per team that spend the last 3 minutes of each game searching for the surviving sub after everything on the surface has been obliterated in a blizzard of torpedoes.....  

 

But this is on the live server. Is it not a little late for gathering data and deciding what to do?

To be honest, and again with great respect, the substantial buff to subs immediately prior to their introduction on the live server would suggest that WG didn't know what it was doing, then or now ......

 

I'm a poor player YabbaCoe, and I can struggle with the game at the best of times. That's why I confine myself to Co-op mostly these days. But I really shudder to think what will happen if many of the really talented players here decide that they fancy playing subs in random in their current broken iteration. 

It is not too late for gathering data, actually there is never too late to gather any data. We always analyze all gathered data. 

What I mentioned is, that appearance of Subs in Coop and Ranked will help us to gather all valuable relevant data on how Subs work and how anti-Sub warfare works. Based on that we can make balance changes if deemed necessary, especially considering the fact, that Random battles are the biggest game mode, in terms of size of the teams and also popularity. 

Also talking about Coop, there is also an option, that we can implement some restrictions for maximum number of ship of each class. This will be also very likely based on the data and feedback gathered.

[Dr_Strange_Love]

Personally, while they are far from realistic, I like the subs.

[Ajantise]

On 9/1/2021 at 12:28 PM, YabbaCoe said:

It is not too late for gathering data, actually there is never too late to gather any data. We always analyze all gathered data. 

What I mentioned is, that appearance of Subs in Coop and Ranked will help us to gather all valuable relevant data on how Subs work and how anti-Sub warfare works. Based on that we can make balance changes if deemed necessary, especially considering the fact, that Random battles are the biggest game mode, in terms of size of the teams and also popularity. 

Also talking about Coop, there is also an option, that we can implement some restrictions for maximum number of ship of each class. This will be also very likely based on the data and feedback gathered.

Could there be an option to play with no subs in random?

I will wait twice as much for a battle, no problems.

[Pedro_McCloud]

35 minutes ago, Ajantise said:

Could there be an option to play with no subs in random?

I will wait twice as much for a battle, no problems.

Why would you want this? If you isolate subs from random and pop them in a game mode with them in, nobody will ever play that and that is a huge loss for WG.

 

I for one am all for subs in random, and I'm a BB main. I welcome the challenge.

[YabbaCoe]

17 hours ago, Ajantise said:

Could there be an option to play with no subs in random?

I will wait twice as much for a battle, no problems.

Currently, there is no such a option planned for any ship class in the game.

[hedgehog_s]

Just had a game on Tears of the Desert where it took longer to spot the bots than to actually kill them all - shows how crap the supposed improved AI is. 

[Smegger213]

Well, I have been invited to do a survey about Subs in Ranked Battles.

 

I told them in bold massive letters, that when they put subs into Random Battles, I will be un-installing.

 

I do hope many other players tell Wargaming to shove subs up where the sun don't shine.

Because they are a complete joke to play against.

[Shivering1944]

Subs in random and that's me finished - just been chased around an island by the homing torps and got destroyed without being able to defend myself. Watched a Mr Gibbons stream where he pinged a target and fired his torps, halfway to the target the target was destroyed so Mr G pinged another target and the torps that were in the water turned 90 degrees to destroy a BB with a 4 citadel hit - what a load of bollocks.....

 

[matia251]

On 9/7/2021 at 12:54 PM, YabbaCoe said:

On 9/6/2021 at 7:25 PM, Ajantise said:

Could there be an option to play with no subs in random?

I will wait twice as much for a battle, no problems.

Currently, there is no such a option planned for any ship class in the game.

Let me rephrase it then:

 

WG said: Could you support the game by opening your wallet?

Frustrated players: Currently there is no such an option planned.

 

So keep wasting our PRECIOUS fun time by turning it into FRUSTRATION time. Instead of putting players against each other in a battle you TURN them against each other using various "frustration inducing mechanics" when you allow totally broken ships/classes for such a LONG...LONG TIME in the game. Therefore you are increasing the toxicity which was already way too high since you are NOT having ANY KIND of skill based pvp and you allow experienced players to mix up with totally clueless players in....wait for it....wait for it.....RANKED battles...the insult to human intelligence reached new heights...never ever ever ever again there was such a mockery of player's dedication...literally you ABUSE player's passion for gaming when you could have just RESPECTED it, thats all everyone is asking..and you would be compensated for this respect..now you are building up frustration and anger instead...good job

[FidelisRaven]

Just played a ranked game... enemy sub killed 3 ships in 3 minutes without ever being spotted. Working as fckn intended. 

[YabbaCoe]

Před 3 hodinami FidelisRaven řekl/a:

Just played a ranked game... enemy sub killed 3 ships in 3 minutes without ever being spotted. Working as fckn intended. 

In first 3 minutes of the battle? That sound like hell of an achievement. 

By any chance, would you have a replay from that battle?

[hedgehog_s]

An idea to try to restore some level of challenge/fun to co ops - Tier 1 to 5 - 9 v 9, Tier 6,7,8 9 v 10 and Tier 9 and 10 9 v 11. The extra bots to be cruisers or BBs - NOT DDs or subs who have no HP to farm and at present with most games having 4 DDs, BBs are irrelevant - fed up of 35K games in T10 BBs because everything is dead in 3 minutes to 4 DDs.

 

[Pukovnik7]

On 8/5/2021 at 1:04 PM, Pikkozoikum said:

1. Wasn't there actual fleet submarines? I mean they had not much use of that, but didn't those exist? But on the other hand, we don't really have realistic naval combats here, it's a ship shooter. Though submarines actual did attack warships, also as part of a surface combat, just not with the fleet together, more like ambushing retreating ships.

 

They existed, but were recognized as total failures - much like World War II attempts at guided torpedoes, which did exist but were worse than classical unguided torpedoes. None of them ever achieved anything of note beyond getting sunk, and eventually development of fleet submarines turned to a development of long-range "cruising" submarines with a more classical submarine mission of commerce interdiction.

On 8/5/2021 at 1:04 PM, Pikkozoikum said:

Also I found this in a youtube video:

 



Intended Role and Typical Missions are "Engaging Warships". Though I think that was mostly planed for the japanese or something and also not the main role, but it was considered. So I see no reason, why not.

 

And in the end, it's a game. Most games go with the same approach, that submarines fight warships (War on the Sea, Steel Ocean (pvp), Silent Hunter, WoWS and I think War Thunder will get them at some point too, because DC exist already)

Intended role and typical missions are:

• COmmerce Raiding
• Mine Warfare
• Scouting
• Transport / Supply Missions

"Engaging warships" is in both cases in brackets because it was recognized as something extraordinary - something that submarines should do if the opporunity arises, but not a typical submarine role. US submarines occasionally did get opportunity to engage Japanese warships - USS Sealion sank battlecruiser Kongo, S-44 sank heavy cruiser Kako - but as with all other submarines in WW2, this was a purely "target of opportunity" thing, not something that was regularly done or (with the exception of the Japanese) an intended role of the submarines.

 

So there are many reasons why submarines should not be in the World of Warships - this is a game about naval battles, not commerce raiding, so submarines have no mission to fulfill here and no role to play. If they wanted to add another ship type, they should have added torpedo boats instead of submarines: these at least were used for scouting, ambushes, and other fleet-warfare related tasks, and most maps are essentially litoral waters which are ideal for torpedo boats.

On 8/5/2021 at 1:04 PM, Pikkozoikum said:

And in the end, it's a game. Most games go with the same approach, that submarines fight warships (War on the Sea, Steel Ocean (pvp), Silent Hunter, WoWS and I think War Thunder will get them at some point too, because DC exist already)

 

Submarines don't work as a part of the game either... and if "it's a game" were a valid reason for including or excluding something, carriers should have been eliminated from the game long time ago.

[tsounts]

37 minutes ago, Pukovnik7 said:

this is a game about naval battles, not commerce raiding, so submarines have no mission to fulfill here and no role to play.

Hmmm, it's funny that there are many cases where battleship players are actually playing like commercial ships cruising on long routes around the map instead of trying to fulfill their role in the match.  

Maybe this is the reason why WG wants to introduce submarines, lul....

[Pukovnik7]

1 hour ago, tsounts said:

Hmmm, it's funny that there are many cases where battleship players are actually playing like commercial ships cruising on long routes around the map instead of trying to fulfill their role in the match.  

Maybe this is the reason why WG wants to introduce submarines, lul....

Unlikely. It might be good to have submarines spawn behind the enemy spawn so as to control such behaviour, though...

[Huzid]

Not sure why people gripe so much about submarines.

 

My experience: in co-op, the regular ships have killed almost everything before I can even get in range and/or I shoot my torps, but before they can get there - the target is already dead. Bery occasionally I see a sub in the top three, usually all are in the lower half.

 

In real PvP - I am probably doing something wrong - since I am never able to do what everyone complains about (impossible to dodge torps seem to miss quite often. and the 'Repair' anti-ping defense outlasts my ability to repeat ping (and reveal location every time). And in pvp - a sub near the top only happens when the regular ships are a complete fail. With good ships top-side a sub is "also on team, but accomplishing nothing".

 

I wish I was 25-40% as effective as all these pages of complaints. But I don't really believe them. Attach some recordings where subs are uber (over and over again).

 

If anything, I am more likely to play DD or CB because SV are so outclassed (against experienced players).