Submarines in Ranked and Co-op Battles

[300ConfirmedKills]

Vor 12 Stunden, hedgehog_s sagte:

I think I can now sum up Subs - every morning, log in, go to armoury and pray to god the sub boxes have coal not subs in them. Nuff said.

You're a braver man than I. I'm too afraid my live account will be contaminated by submarines to click on that section.

[Asatori]

I've never seen this piss poor design of game mechanics... 

Not even remotely fun to play, completely 1 dimensional and boring, and even worse to play against. 

Just a waste of a slot in the teams. 

 

And so far I find depth charges completely irrelevant. They do very little damage most of the times (i've had 20 depth charge hits do not even 50% of a subs HP in dmg....), and you actually have to sail on top of them, how are you supposed to do that when there are enemy ships around that can spot and shoot you?

I tend to ignore the subs because it is suicide to try to depth charge them in a DD or cruiser. Makeing a class that is untouchable and must be ignored now that is the basis of good game design, WG learned that from the CV rework I guess..

And when the depth charges inevitably fail to kill the sub, then what? wait for 40 seconds so you can again not kill the sub? And how are you supposed to survive those 40 seconds while you sail around in the open chasing a sub? And also: there is not even any indication or feedback from the game where your depth charges are going to fall. So you kind have to guess where they'll explode. No aiming or timing involved, just press a button and things will happen, such piss poor design... A third grader could do better as a school project. It is quite clear why WG must have subs in te game no matter what, they need to attract more new players that will buy their lootboxes, nothing else matters. 

So nothing I say or anyone says will matter, WG must sell lootboxes to sub players to pay for the sunk cost fallacy that is sub development. 

 

What pile of dog feces this company has become.. such a shame, ah well I will collect my anniversary SC's next patch. And after that.. uninstall.. 

[gabberworld]

2 hours ago, Asatori said:

Just a waste of a slot in the teams.

there is allot waste coning on indeed , but that is nothing todo with submarines

[buccaneer_invader]

COOP BATTLES 9 SHIPS AND 3 SUBS.RANDOM 12 SHIPS AND 3 SUBS. CAN SERVER COPE.

 

[johncl]

I think subs have a long long way to go before they are a positive addition to the game .

 

The biggest shame is I can't be bothered to list what I think would make them better and why I think they need to make them better  due to the fact WeeGee don't even listen to there own CCs 

Why would they listen to me ...So in a word ..they are $hi& 

[Steel_duck_1]

I can’t even come up with ideas for fixing submarines, because the core concept is boring, unimaginative and one dimensional. 3 years of development and all you get is this? The operation submarines we first saw in the submarine event were literally more fun than what we have now

[tom_kat]

And how about playing Atago, Mogami,Cleveland, Odin... and have not any sub countermeasure? All fine, right? I understand this is the usual WeeGee way of forcing players to use a class they don't want to play just because it is OP.

[akira_yuki]

Alle 4/8/2021 alle 15:02, The_EURL_Guy ha scritto:

Hit the seas in a sub and read up on the new rules for Ranked Battles!

Read it on the portal

Best way to play submarines is not to play wows anymore wait for premium period end then uninstall and never come back

[burntrock]

I have never used the forums before, but anti sub game play is terrible,  I know where they are! but only way to get to them is in open water where like a sitting duck.  I dont like but could understand the reason for the sonar pings and homing torp if it a slight improvement, but the speed and their ability to change direction so fast is way to OP

 

edit: correct 2nd post

[Formul]

Co-op is so damn boring, almost every match ends searching for an invisible submarine (or three) half the time just waiting for the points.

[Maris_Piper]

We've got the ing things, WG won't listen to us, the Next God Knows how long is going to be a Rework of the reworked rework of the reworked Sub Rework, and still no one will listen

 Oh Did I mention, We are stuck with them and WG don't give a  They've Harpooned this #Whale .com  

[achilles999666]

FWIW Wargaming, I've been trying out the submarines and I really like the concept and how they are playing. 

 

Made a forum account so I could post this. It probably still needs some tinkering/refining but I'm definitely looking forward to subs being a part of the game. 

 

I know it's not popular with a large amount of the serious WOWs players but I'm enjoying them. Keep up the good work. 

[Pikkozoikum]

4 hours ago, Maris_Piper said:

We've got the ing things, WG won't listen to us, the Next God Knows how long is going to be a Rework of the reworked rework of the reworked Sub Rework, and still no one will listen

 Oh Did I mention, We are stuck with them and WG don't give a  They've Harpooned this #Whale .com  

I had no issues with/against submarines so far :-|

Though if it's too hard to dodge, they might adjust some speeds/maneuverbility. But this surface-shots should be possible, imo

[Sunleader]

General Feedback so far.

 

Submarines are way too Complicated and make no Sense.

The Mechanics are exceedingly Wrong and not Fun at all.

And the Balance is Horrible.

 

1.

The Best ASW Ships in the Game right now. Are the Battleships that have Floatplane ASW.

Because they can Attack the Submarine from Far away without getting Close to it.

Which is Extremely Effective especially when there is a CV in the Game. Because for some Reason Submarines will still get Spotted by Aircraft when they are 30m deep underwater....

 

2.

Alot of Mechanics also work Differently for Submarines. For example. Ramming Submarines including Submarines ramming Submarines. Only does Damage for Actual HP.

Not for Full HP like other Ships.

So many Submarines are by now on Purpose trying to Immediately Ram other Submarines.

 

3.

Damage of ASW and Torps is Hilariously Unbalanced.

Some ASW Charges need just 1 or 2 Hits to Cripple a Sub. Others can Hit 10 Times directly on the Sub and will barely do any Damage.

Same for Torps. Some Subs have Insanely Strong Torps that even without Double ping can take Half a BBs HP in a Salvo.

Others even with Doubleping struggle to deal a Third if the BBs HP as Damage.

 

4.

Distribution of ASW is Horrendous for Balancing.

Sometimes you got Matches where nobody except DDs has ASW. Meaning they cant do anything as the Sub will just sit below its fleet and Spam Longrange Homing Torps.

Other Times literally all BBs on the Enemy Team got ASW. And being Spotted a Single Time by an Overflying Plane is effectively a Death Penalty. Because you cant do anything about the Enemy BBs just Stacking 3-5 ASW Drops on your Position.

 

5.

The Divetimer also makes it entirely Impossible to really Play as a Submarine. Because frankly if you go any closer to the Enemy than absolutely necessary and effectively means that Submarines are only Torpedo Turrets as they cannot go close to Enemies.

 

6.

Oh Yeah. Did I mention.

CVs are entirely Immune to Submarines. They can completely Ignore them.

Cause when they get Pinged. They will just say Screw your Ping for 1 Full Minute. And as they are way faster than Subs. That is more than enough to just Drive away.

Needless to say. Their DCP reloads Super Fast. So even if by some Miracle you managed to get after them. And get some Torps off. They will likely have DCPed again before your Torps even reach them.

 

 

 

 

Total Verdict.

Absolute Failure so far.

 

TLDR Version.

Submarines are Exceedingly Boring to Play.

Are depending on the Matchmaker either Ridiculously Overpowered. Or Completely Useless.

DDs are nearly useless against Submarines. While BBs with ASW are Excellent Hunter Killers that can take out Subs from 10km away.

And thanks to the Dive Timer. Submarines are effectively Torpedo Turrets whose only Purpose is to Sit at Range and Spam Homing Torps.

Oh and aside from General Balancing being Horrible. CVs are almost entirely Invulnearble to Submarines.

 

 

 

 

Suggested Changes.

 

1.

Make Submarine Torps Shortranged.

2.

Submerged Subs should be Invisible. A Sub at 20 meter Depth should not be Spotted by Aircraft Flying 2km away...

3.

Remove Divetimer.

4.

Either give all BBs and Cruisers ASW. Or make it part of Matchmaking. So that you dont end up with one Team being able to just Blap a Sub 10km away. While others cant do anything about an enemy Submarine.

5.

Either make ASW much more Shortranged. Or Weaken its Damage tremendously. So that BBs cant just Blap a Submarine that 10km away...

6.

Either Make CV unable to DCP a Ping. Or remove the 1 minute Duration DCP that basicly makes CVs Immune to Submarines....

 

[Altharius]

Submarines should not have a place in WoWS.

I won't play with or against submarines.

[SirAmra]

Youtube commercials with wows, are with subs in them. That's all u need to know about the future of this game.

For me it's a dead game.

[P4nther]

After some games (qualification going on to gold) i have few feelings on subs.

After all it's not that bad, but few issues lays, cruisers have most to lose at this point. Very little counterplay to homing torps, becouse dmg con is so short and the next ping and homing set is coming right after and u can't do enything about this.

BB's have hp to take some hits, and longer dmg con helps to set away before next ping, but again this gives more reasons to them not push up and do what they are build for(tanking) = more camping. This is not what the game (again) needs.

And there is allready much work for dmg con to be ready for fires and floods, so this ping removal is bit too much and every action to make a push to points comes less and less to players minds.

 

And what about playing them? it gets boring easy when all u do is going close to point and just sit there and try ping and hit, ping and hit. And i find the homing system to be more annoying than "easy hits". Too much a "just press a button, and hope for the best" and just sit there.

 

I'd throw the whole ping and homing system to thrash, and make u self control the torps a little. Like halfway the max range of your torps u could steer them and only allow this when sub is on surface or periscope level.

Not like racecars, but slight adjustment where its going to curve or just straight line. This way player has something to do and think, and targets has a chance to dodge them when spotted, and ofc what closer you are to sub, more chance there is to get hit, but by skillful plays it's still possible to dodge them like in DD trying to come in to depth charge.

And ofc put the torps more like DD's have. No double ping citadel crap and adjust reload times to match dmg and speed.

[Ajantise]

Best way to vote on this subject, is to just play random.

I intentionally did not play 1 game in coop or ranked.

Despite going gold on last ranked try.  

[gabberworld]

there is some cases when subs are very bad.

 

1. your team sub and or destroyers gets early killed cant detect enemy subs anymore unless if the make mistakes

2. your team have no Depth Charges ships, in this case this basically will be one side game only.

 

even if you manage dodge torpedoes  like i been doing this you still cant push as if you todo that you may get easily killed

im not against submarines but cases like this its kind off pointless continue battle

[Xylum]

So when will subs be in random battles?

[YabbaCoe]

15 hours ago, Xylum said:

So when will subs be in random battles?

We don't have ETA on that yet. But yes, they are planned to be implemented to other game modes in future.

[King_Of_The_Potatoes]

58 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

We don't have ETA on that yet. But yes, they are planned to be implemented to other game modes in future.

Will that be after the rework of the rework of the rework.

[Wannna]

4 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

We don't have ETA on that yet. But yes, they are planned to be implemented to other game modes in future.

Yeah, nobody wants it, great move WG again

[Castigador]

5 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

We don't have ETA on that yet. But yes, they are planned to be implemented to other game modes in future.

Do the people at WG realize that this just confirms that they don´t listen to the community?

A grand majority of players does not want subs, stop forcing them through our throat.

[Redwing6891]

Subs in WoWS had definitely one good effect for me, as they made me realize how much I missed playing a proper sub sim.

 

Thank you, WG, and Silent Hunter, here I come!