Submarines in Ranked and Co-op Battles

[WWDragon]

Let me just say ASW weapons is not the same as damage mitigation, using DCP to remove the ping lock is a band aid solution that have a lot of problems.

 

There is a FPS notion that everything should be damaged by everything at any given time, drop it ... if WG handles out ASW like candy to every ship that means as a result subs will have buffs as a counter balance and there isnt much they can buff submarines, they wont give then some AA but they will buff stealth or torpedo performance, I rather they address the real problem that is homing torps that are either "use DCP and get hit in the second salvo" or "get hit and hold DCP for the second salvo" in case you can use DCP.

 

And hydro not detecting submerged submarines because thats BS.

[mtm78]

15 minutes ago, WWDragon said:

There is a FPS notion that everything should be damaged by everything at any given time, drop i

 

Why is it a 'FPS' notion, please elaborate. Do you mean to say this game isn't an arcade shooter with a playerbase which can't work together if their pixel lives depended on it which can be observed by anyone looking at the average player, and shouldn't have mechanics which match that but instead rely on principles from say a MOBO with far smaller teams who do actually work together? I would find that strange, since this is actually a FPS both in gameplay but mostly and due to, it's playerbase.

 

19 minutes ago, WWDragon said:

if WG handles out ASW like candy to every ship that means as a result subs will have buffs as a counter balance

 

Why? That sounds a lot like people complaining about smoked up DD's in early development when they introduced and proliferated radars ( remember when WG promised us to never put radar on a BB ... not that it took long to first release Mo and well now look at the game ). And I don't see those incredibly big buffs to say IJN DD's which been in the game since the start, they are all still basically the same if not worse. 

 

I read a lot of statement there, but nothing actually saying why you think that way. 

 

[Felixshoen]

Yup, tried sub play and it's utter crap.  If you put this crap elsewhere (clan battles, random, etc.) I wont play those battle types.  Even more importantly, I wont spend a single dime on this game again, ever.  So keep paying employees to come out with more gimmicks and op premiums.  I wont buy them.  Ever.  I wont have a premium account. Ever.  Keep screwing this game up and I'll be that crap player that costs you money instead of earning money from me.  Enough said.

[Un_Dac_Liber]

Guys you are wasting your time, WG will not listen to you. The only language WG is talking are money, so I zip my wallet for an indefinite period.

And I'm not talking here ships, I will buy nothing from WG, not premium time, not flags , not everything.

[ColorsOfRainbows]

just remove them from coop for god sake :/ then i dont play ranked and not even randoms anymore just give me at least coop where i can have fun without these horrible class

 

[tom_kat]

I've just played, or suffered, my first game with submarines. Both of them stayed static far away from the cap zones, was an Epicenter mode, while pinging and shooting those homecoming torpedoes. AND THERE WERE CVs TOO. So, the rest of the ships were running away from CV and subs torpedos.

 

Did anybody got fun? I suppose the 2 CV and 2 subs players, while the 10 others didn't. At least I had not.

[Redwing6891]

My five cents...

 

I played subs in Co-Op and Ranked, and find them a very frustrating experience - very similar to CVs. I feel somehow completely disconnected from the team and don't contribute anything useful. It is like you are playing your own game but where skill is secondary and luck is everything. It is like loot boxes translated into gameplay.

 

The models and animations are gorgeous but the gameplay is just bad, I am afraid. The timeframes just don't match up. I have played Silent Service, Aces of the Deep and Silent Hunter for years, so I think I do have a tiny inkling of how subs should play. I doubt that whoever designed this gameplay ever tried their hand at any of them. The closest this experience gets to is Battlestations Pacific in the USS Narwhal, and that was more fun as the missions had objectives that the sub could actually deliver on.

 

Subs are stalkers where the hunt and setting up the attack takes a lot of patience and skill, before you get the 'I love it when a plan comes together' feeling. Here it is just too quick. Everything moves on fast forward like in a weird cartoon movie. Sub versus sub is like a plane dogfight in molasses. No 'one ping only' moment here either.

 

Sorry, but I am afraid I am out. It feels like the WoWS game I used to love is getting squeezed out of existence. Tiers I to IV are the last refuge and I wonder when this last bastion will fall. 

 

Time to start looking for an alternative.

 

[tsounts]

DD goes over submarine and remains spotted while submarine is unspotted.... 

[Doomnikel]

On 8/4/2021 at 3:04 PM, USNavy_12 said:

So, no more ranked. Okay.

 

Unfortunatelly you still won't keep this crap out of the game. [edited]submarines.

so true

[Doomnikel]

I wont also spend no money anymore on this game if submarines continue in ranked or worse in random battles, its just no fun at the moment and deserves a balancing and a special mode. I dont want to be forced to play against them. You could even consider going up to tier XV or something and add modern ships but not this. This game was ,except some op ships still, mostly fun in regards to the classes but this please, it feels like a big unnecessray pain in the [edited]and this could be healed so easily. Thanks in advance to consider this post as you a opinion of a lot of people. Please also stop this aggressive monetisation of everything. Still love the game since the first hour and hope to keep on with this relationship (<- i said ship)  

 

Best regards

Doomnikel

[mtm78]

6 hours ago, Un_Dac_Liber said:

Guys you are wasting your time, WG will not listen to you. The only language WG is talking are money, so I zip my wallet for an indefinite period.

And I'm not talking here ships, I will buy nothing from WG, not premium time, not flags , not everything.

 

Sadly you're not really making a difference, not enough anyway. Want them to really take notice? Stop playing their game. 

[Redwing6891]

14 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

 

Sadly you're not really making a difference, not enough anyway. Want them to really take notice? Stop playing their game. 

 

Strange, but true. You can always come back. Though every time I did, I didn't find things had improved.

 

Historical relevance was the first one to go, followed by a tsunami of paper ships, each with more and more gimmicks. Gameplay elements that offered something different (like the original CV play style) were dropped in favour of World of Warplanes Light. No discernible development at all of AI. Introduction of game modes that are universally loathed (like Epicentre) etc pp. Now submarines. The list goes on and on.... Note I am not against submarines but I don't think they were implemented very well. Square peg and round hole has been mentioned before, I think.

 

I am beginning to wonder whether the fundamental concept of the MMO / freemium naval game is just wrong. I want a game that offers missions with tactical gameplay that have at least some sort of connection with reality. I might just re-install Battlestations Pacific...

[Emily_Kaldwin]

I cant even catch the submarine with dd.if u play bb then not even worth trying 

What were you thinking when you added such a broken class into the ranked game? we had a good game now its piece of s* ty wargaming 

[stormwulf]

Adding subs in any way, shape or form is a massive mistake. Especially after vowing never to add them. As a novelty for halloween or similar events its fine, but in the live servers its a mistake that either results in being targeted with no form of defense (dependant on ship class) , or complete boredom because the subs hide. Makes the game feel stagnant.

 

You should have done it as a standlone game.

 

You can only upset a community so many times before they really start to bite back, and I think you've just about hit that point.

[tom_kat]

3 hours ago, tsounts said:

DD goes over submarine and remains spotted while submarine is unspotted.... 

Shooted one sub 3 full salvoes with my T61, after that one deep charge consumable above him and another and... He was still alive. So subs are kinda like those squadrons that manage to go through 5 ships and make 2 attacks...

By the way, I received a warning from a moderator from posting 2 screenshots where you could see 4 characters of the nickname of a player. I must apologize for my fault and I must to say I wish the rest of the company would work as efficiently as forum moderators do. Now here is my deleted post fixed:

And, by the way, let me please know if you think this fit a normal require: the minimum experience, in number of battles, to play a competitive mode (although I know the answer very well).





So, if I can understand this some way: a guy that has 30 games on Random Battles can make a nice teamplay on the supposed "competitive" mode due to his knowledge of the gamep itself thanks to 300 Co-Op games. And there are no ARP-Yamatos with less than 200 Random Battles on the account playing Gold league, right? . And all this concepts, requirements and fair-play stuff, that a well balanced and healthy  game must have, had been introduced on World of Warships after a very hard brainstorming thankfully to the feedback provided by community and CCs.

 

 

[WWDragon]

1 minute ago, tom_kat said:

Shooted one sub 3 full salvoes with my T61, after that one deep charge consumable above him and another and... He was still alive. So subs are kinda like those squadrons that manage to go through 5 ships and make 2 attacks...

 

During a PT run you just need hit around a sub twice that was rather crappy for the sub since they couldnt escape, back during PT round 2 and 3 were very weak.

 

Problem goes down to this, they arent going to make subs utterly useless because we dont like certain interactions and if we just go screeching over it they wont change then, not without buffing other parameters so we have to lay down the problems that we see and offer solutions that dont involve kneecapping the class.

 

The ping system have to be changed, I dont care how much someone at Wargaming likes that gimmick and really, really, REALLY wants it ... doesnt work, they cannot be countered because the DCP is a bandaid measure that as it stands can easily be bypassed by simply ping, launch 2 torps and wait for the target to either eat the torps or use DCP when its just a case of waiting 10 seconds, ping and launch the remaining torps ... you either eat 2, maybe even 4 or you eat then later so either they add a consumable that makes torpedoes launched at the target mess (Noisemakers) or change how torpedoes home so the last 2-3 km the torpedoes dont home anymore

[_Nantex_]

Stop [edited]up the game even more please...   Stay away with subs. Repair MM, invisible islands in the middle of nowhere, reduce RNG interfere. Make some historical events etc...

[CV_SUB_Report_Blacklist]

after playing subs these two days ... i can say ..

 

if you play a sub ... and see a cruiser around ,,, its one sided play , you can kill him easily ...

 

and if you a dd spotted you he will kill you with 1 press . a dds depth charge will take your FULL HP from 100% to 0 ...

 

cant get it how a dd has better concealment than submarine ...

and cant get it how cruisers hopeless against cruisers ...

 

i can say a sub vs sub is the most fair battle , otherwise its a one sided ....

 

[Dr4aken]

I'm not the best player, I'm average at best but i just want to share my opinion about subs:

 

Subs in Coop are really annoying. They just make it a really boring session of hide and seek and don't bring much to the game.

 

In ranked,  as an average Cruiser main, it's just infuriating. When i get devstriked by a BB, I know it's because, I positioned myself incorretly, when I eat DD Torps, it's similar. But now i don't know, where the Torps will get form, I can't do anything about getting pinged, when my Damacon is on Cooldown and even if I see the Sub, I can't do anything as long as it's fully submerged. If I have depthcharges, I'm also out of luck because I'd have to charge into open water to use them, and then get focused by the enemy team. Dodging those torps is no option because they just change course and still kill me.

But my biggest problem is matchmaking. Yesterday I played a match witch 1 Cv, 2 Subs, 4 DDs and just one cruiser per team, and it was just hell. Cv spotted me, i got permapinged by subs and 3 different smokescreens spammed me with HE. It was just hell.

On the other hand most of the time, the subs are quite useless. They don't spot well and most players just sit in the middle of open water and wait for the DDs to spot for them so they can ping and torp. So they don`t contribute to the gameplay and the team. 

 

 

All in all they just make the game extremly frustrating and i don't think that they have a place in the game at their current iteration.

[tsounts]

Even battleships' asw measures seem to be more effective against subs compared to depth charges employed by cruisers and dds that have to get in harms way.

[Dr4aken]

And the subs are another reason for BBs to stay save in the back and let the DDs and Cruisers push

[tom_kat]

3 minutes ago, Hagxi95 said:

And the subs are another reason for BBs to stay save in the back and let the DDs and Cruisers push

Do you know that feeling, while playing a dd, when you are spotted, focused by the enemy team, used your RP, and just 1 second before got unspotted being pinged... and killed by those homecoming torpedoes that you can't, even with a dd, dodge?

[Dr4aken]

 

Vor 3 Minuten, tom_kat sagte:

Do you know that feeling, while playing a dd, when you are spotted, focused by the enemy team, used your RP, and just 1 second before got unspotted being pinged... and killed by those homecoming torpedoes that you can't, even with a dd, dodge?

I know, I also tried DDs and you're right, they are just as frustrating for DDs

[Tomeco]

I just had a couple of ranked battles, and it's really fun when the submarine is just flanking fleet completely undetected, sending torpedos, which are really hard to avoid. 

 

I know, I know, there is plenty smartasses, who gone say: It easy, I'm a noob and I don't know how to play this game. Get lost.

 

Thx Wargaming, I loooooooooooooooooooooooooove submarines. This day is a day when I stopped playing ranked games. Please tell me when You going to put submarines -which we love so much - to random games. I want to know when will be my last game in World of Gambling. 

[hedgehog_s]

I think I can now sum up Subs - every morning, log in, go to armoury and pray to god the sub boxes have coal not subs in them. Nuff said.