Christ, how bad is the Zao now

[LeaveMeAloneCV_Sub]

Před 3 minutami Ocsimano18 řekl/a:

To be honest, full AA spec cruisers still works now, at least I tried it with Yoshino. The problem is that you don't see so many planes nowadays.

I want your MM. I have CVs in most of my games.

[ghostbuster_]

4 minutes ago, Ocsimano18 said:

To be honest, full AA spec cruisers still works now, at least I tried it with Yoshino. The problem is that you don't see so many planes nowadays.

Works how? Can you defend your teammate who is in your AA range? Nope. Can you defend yourself? Nope. Its not up to you or your skillbuilds. Its all about enemy CV being potato or not. You can spec every single AA skill there is to the best AA ship, if enemy CV is not a potato, you wont be able to defend yourself.

[LeaveMeAloneCV_Sub]

Právě teď ghostbuster_ řekl/a:

Works how? Can you defend your teammate who is in your AA range? Nope. Can you defend yourself? Nope. Its not up tou you or your skillbuilds. Its about enemy CV being potato or not. You can spec every single AA skill there is to the best AA ship, if enemy CV is not a potato, you wont be able to defend yourself.

That is sadly truth. I can imagine blaping full AA kiting Worcester/Mino in RTS CVs without being out of planes quite soon.

[MannequinSkywalker]

14 minutes ago, Ocsimano18 said:

To be honest, full AA spec cruisers still works now, at least I tried it with Yoshino. The problem is that you don't see so many planes nowadays.

Your full AA specced cruiser works against planes only;

 

(A) If the enemy CV is a tato

(B) If enemy CV keeps ignoring you

(C) If you keep sailing alongside other ships.

 

Also, i still experience CVs in around half the games.

[Ocsimano18]

14 minutes ago, MannequinSkywalker said:

Your full AA specced cruiser works against planes only;

 

(A) If the enemy CV is a tato

(B) If enemy CV keeps ignoring you

(C) If you keep sailing alongside other ships.

 

(D) Also, i still experience CVs in around half the games.

 

 

26 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

Works how?

C: Can you defend your teammate who is in your AA range? Nope.

E: Can you defend yourself? Nope.

A: Its not up to you or your skillbuilds. Its all about enemy CV being potato or not.

A: You can spec every single AA skill there is to the best AA ship, if enemy CV is not a potato, you wont be able to defend yourself.

 

A: Most of them are, I'm not playing clan wars. You meet the top 5% in about 5% of your CV matches, so in total about less than 2% of your matches.

B: That's an issue with full AA spec, you spend so many points just to be ignored.

C: Keeping one buddy close wouldn't hurt, just because the CV would rather target someone else.

D: It probably depends on when you play, in T10 they seem to be much less frequent since the rocket nerf.

E: Easily if you are on the move. The only issue is the endgame if you're forced to make evasive maneuvers against a CV while getting into a crossfire from a surface ship.

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

8 hours ago, MacArthur92 said:

*406mm and below. 

A lot of those T10 BBs don't give a crap about the 30mm...

 

I said the citadel cannot be overmatched.

[ghostbuster_]

12 minutes ago, Ocsimano18 said:

 

 

 

A: Most of them are, I'm not playing clan wars. You meet the top 5% in about 5% of your CV matches, so in total about less than 2% of your matches.

And this changes the fact that ony important factor is the skill of CV player? Just because it doesnt occure that often doesnt mean its not a problem.

Quote

B: That's an issue with full AA spec, you spend so many points just to be ignored.

That was the choice you had to make. Right now, its just waste of points since CV player doesnt care if he is not a total potato.

Quote

C: Keeping one buddy close wouldn't hurt, just because the CV would rather target someone else.

Or CV can just dodge the flak and strike anyone of you two.

Quote

D: It probably depends on when you play, in T10 they seem to be much less frequent since the rocket nerf.

Nah, they are as frequent as they were before the rocket nerf.

Quote

E: Easily if you are on the move. The only issue is the endgame if you're forced to make evasive maneuvers against a CV while getting into a crossfire from a surface ship.

Again, potato CVs yeah, against them you might stay stationary as well. They are just bad. But against good ones, good luck.

[KillStealBoss]

5 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

I think the server  stats decide that better than me.

Yeah because you don't even have a Yoshino so how can you even talk about it that it's worse than Zao? 

Cause I'm having much more comfortable time playing Yoshino and much better stats too. You know why? Cause even though people say Yoshino can be deleted fast - my survivability on it is pretty high so I can INFLUENCE the battle better. 

You even don't play T10s much, as veteran player with only 6% of your battles on T10 🤣

So you base your opinion not on your own experience or overall feeling the ship - but on numbers of other people. Pathetic. 

[ColonelPete]

12 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

Yeah because you don't even have a Yoshino so how can you even talk about it that it's worse than Zao? 

Cause I'm having much more comfortable time playing Yoshino and much better stats too. You know why? Cause even though people say Yoshino can be deleted fast - my survivability on it is pretty high so I can INFLUENCE the battle better. 

You even don't play T10s much, as veteran player with only 6% of your battles on T10 🤣

So you base your opinion not on your own experience or overall feeling the ship - but on numbers of other people. Pathetic. 

I said she performs worse than Zao. Note the difference. And anyone able to read can say that.

And yes, I have the Azuma and know the playstile.

 

Feel free to base you judgement on your subjective feelings. I prefer more objectivity.

[KillStealBoss]

9 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

I said she performs worse than Zao. Note the difference. And anyone able to read can say that.

And yes, I have the Azuma and know the playstile.

 

Feel free to base you judgement on your subjective feelings. I prefer more objectivity.

No it doesn't perform worse than Zao now. Go and see my stats not only my opinion. If you're so much in numbers.

[KillStealBoss]

1 hour ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

 

I said the citadel cannot be overmatched.

I quoted too much text there. All I meant is 30mm deck. And it can be overmatched by a lot of BBs these days. You won't get citadeled but you still can east 15-18k dmg while if GK was shooting maybe you'll take 5k. Significant difference. 

[ColonelPete]

13 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

No it doesn't perform worse than Zao now. Go and see my stats not only my opinion. If you're so much in numbers.

Your stats are not the benchmark for the whole server...

[KillStealBoss]

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

Your stats are not the benchmark for the whole server...

But they actually show something - Zao needs help in survivability. It needs more hp - bring back the 48k hp to it, the range should be 17.5km as a minimum. 

When Zao was introduced there was no other BB from Yamato to be a super problem for her. Now you have

Ohio

Thunderer

Vermont

Kremlin

Shikishima

Musashi

Georgia

And upcoming Incomparable and potentially the super BBs the Hanover and Satsuma might be included after several nerfs.

And you get also Stalingrads, Alaskas, Petro...

And if you're super unlucky you can get a decent player on Richtofen that goes after you with AP rocket planes. Enjoyable experience when you have 17.5km range with legendary upgrade Zao with spotter plane. 

 

Also I'm not the best at cruisers but still play the crappy Yoshino nowadays better than Zao. You can play on Zao and get decent result. But it's not amazing to play at all... It's a struggle. Went people play DM ? Cause it's a reliable ship that can carry a game. Zao can't.

 

Unless in a division. Something that you don't almost play having only 11% of your battles in division 😂

[KillStealBoss]

14 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Your stats are not the benchmark for the whole server...

And just like Flamu said - if you want to play Zao just take a Nevsky. You have great 22km range with no spotter plane needed , decent AA and troll armour, speed and a bonus - radar. 

So why would anyone play Zao? Torps? Take a Yoshino. So yeah do you have any arguments why to play Zao?

Maybe if you were playing Zao as much as you sit here in forum - maybe you would understand me. But what can you understand after just 19 battles on that ship that you probably played 2-3 years ago. 

[ColonelPete]

10 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

But they actually show something - Zao needs help in survivability. It needs more hp - bring back the 48k hp to it, the range should be 17.5km as a minimum. 

I doubt that they show that, but I agree that it would be no problem to give Zao her old HP.

8 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

So yeah do you have any arguments why to play Zao?

Maybe if you were playing Zao as much as you sit here in forum - maybe you would understand me. But what can you understand after just 19 battles on that ship that you probably played 2-3 years ago. 

You play her when you like the playstile. Why else?

I understand that you consider your Zao performance to be the benchmark for the ship.

[KillStealBoss]

6 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

You play her when you like the playstile. Why else?

I understand that you consider your Zao performance to be the benchmark for the ship.

*playstyle

It's not only me btw. I meant other people as well. As I said if you were spending time playing Zao instead of posting 200 posts a day here in forum - you would understand what I mean. T10 ships are museum exhibits in your port right now, try maybe play them decently. And buy the Yoshino to compare it. 

 

Being a very mediocre person on cruisers - yes I do . If a unicuum can do well - yes he can. If he can do better in other ships in same situation - yes. 

[ColonelPete]

2 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

*playstyle

It's not only me btw. I meant other people as well. As I said if you were spending time playing Zao instead of posting 200 posts a day here in forum - you would understand what I mean. T10 ships are museum exhibits in your port right now, try maybe play them decently. And buy the Yoshino to compare it. 

 

Being a very mediocre person on cruisers - yes I do . If a unicuum can do well - yes he can. If he can do better in other ships in same situation - yes. 

Yes, that includes other people...

And I told you that I understand you. And no, Yoshino does not play that differently to Azuma and therefore I will not buy a worse Tier X version of the ship.

 

And no, a single player is never a benchmark for a ships performance.

[KillStealBoss]

42 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

you consider your Zao performance 

While I consider your T10 performance as potato at best, especially after being in same team with you. Playing at almost max range, tunnel vision, zero support. You played a Republic like in a Yoshino 🤣

 

Also if you see server stats of an Austin you can think "oh yeah that's an amazing ship" but having non existent experience on T10 like you do - you went to buy the Austin and.... Yeah . You are way worse than an average Joe on it. If I see you in Austin in my team is better just quit to port cause why to bother ? Especially when you play no divisions and you go solo with Austin having no clue how to play it well. 

 

Anyway. This little off top above is just an example to not trust server stats and spreadsheets and going to buy a ship based on that. 

So yeah Mr Colonel - Git Gud on T10. Play more Zao. 

 

[KillStealBoss]

Just now, ColonelPete said:

And no, a single player is never a benchmark for a ships performance.

So maybe go make a survey asking people how do they feel about the Zao? Oh yeah you won't do that, better to spam posts. 

[KillStealBoss]

3 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Yoshino does not play that differently to Azuma and therefore I will not buy a worse Tier X version of the ship.

You see you're very wrong here. Yoshino has the 30mm deck anlike 27 on Azuma, it has better gun reload than Azuma, it has more range than Azuma and 20km zoning torps that are a bonus damage. I have both ships. It's not the same. It's close but not the same. It's like saying why to play Nevsky when you have the Donskoi. The basic is the same but overall they differ. 

[MannequinSkywalker]

9 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

 And no, Yoshino does not play that differently to Azuma and therefore I will not buy a worse Tier X version of the ship.

I take it as you wanted to say Azuma is the worse version of Yoshino.

[ColonelPete]

23 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

So maybe go make a survey asking people how do they feel about the Zao? Oh yeah you won't do that, better to spam posts. 

As I already said, for ship performance you look at server stats...

 

And the one spamming here is you, since you need multiple posts to answer one posting of mine, while I use one pist for multiple postings of yours... 

21 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

You see you're very wrong here. Yoshino has the 30mm deck anlike 27 on Azuma, it has better gun reload than Azuma, it has more range than Azuma and 20km zoning torps that are a bonus damage. I have both ships. It's not the same. It's close but not the same. It's like saying why to play Nevsky when you have the Donskoi. The basic is the same but overall they differ. 

I did not say they are the same. Yes, they are close. That is what I meant.

18 minutes ago, MannequinSkywalker said:

I take it as you wanted to say Azuma is the worse version of Yoshino.

Nope. Per Tier Azuma is the better performing ship. 

[MannequinSkywalker]

5 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Nope. Per Tier Azuma is the better performing ship. 

Per tier is an invalid argument unless we're talking about a T10 ship.

[KillStealBoss]

9 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

As I already said, for ship performance you look at server stats...

 

And the one spamming here is you, since you need multiple posts to answer one posting of mine, while I use one pist for multiple postings of yours... 

I did not say they are the same. Yes, they are close. That is what I meant.

Nope. Per Tier Azuma is the better performing ship. 

Dude nobody is looking at per tier but as a ship. Per tier Donskoi is also better cause it can see T7 ships. That's really poor argument.

Well I'm multiposting so it won't be a super long post so people won't read it. While you just spam one sentence post in multiple places in forum which no one normal does that especially if it's a a topic like that which needs explanation. 

Spreadsheet won't explain for you much -  just look at your Austin. Very good investment 😂 based on spreadsheet . Well done there.

 

Why do you even play the game, anyone can come here and based on some stats and spreadsheet you can say this ship is good or bad having no idea about anything in the game. 

Forum is also a place when we discuss our OPONIONS (say it again OPINIONS) but seems like you have none of that. Cause you don't play T10. 

And don't come with "T10 no fun" argument. Cause if it's no fun then don't engage in topics about T10 ships. You can go to some Azuma thread. 

[ColonelPete]

4 minutes ago, MannequinSkywalker said:

Per tier is an invalid argument unless we're talking about a T10 ship.

How do compare ships of different Tiers? In absolute values? 

4 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

Dude nobody is looking at per tier but as a ship. Per tier Donskoi is also better cause it can see T7 ships. That's really poor argument.

Well I'm multiposting so it won't be a super long post so people won't read it. While you just spam one sentence post in multiple places in forum which no one normal does that especially if it's a a topic like that which needs explanation. 

Spreadsheet won't explain for you much -  just look at your Austin. Very good investment 😂 based on spreadsheet . Well done there.

 

Why do you even play the game, anyone can come here and based on some stats and spreadsheet you can say this ship is good or bad having no idea about anything in the game. 

I can keep my answers short and do not need to ramble.