Christ, how bad is the Zao now

[st_dasa]

16 hours ago, woppy101 said:

Played my first game in the Zao for a while, Christ how bad is she now, almost unplayable 

 

IJN has literally 0 good cruisers at tiers 9 and 10. Zao is powercrept to oblivion, Ibuki is, well... Ibuki, Yoshino is utter crap and Azuma is the worse Yoshino.

 

The only good cruiser (not great, mind you, just good) IJN has at the high tiers is Atago (and for the sole fact that she is a t8 and can, occasionally, enjoy clubbing t6-7). The rest are just poor apparitions sailing around to be farmed and begging RNGesus to inflict a fire or two on oblivious BBs.

 

Goliath is a better firestarter, Venezia superior DD hunter and Petro & A. Nevsky are better at everything.

 

P.S. Pls dont tell me how Yoshino is a good ship in the current meta, because she is not. This is coming from the 26th Yoshi player on the server.

[Aragathor]

1 minute ago, st_dasa said:

 

IJN has literally 0 good cruisers at tiers 9 and 10. Zao is powercrept to oblivion, Ibuki is, well... Ibuki, Yoshino is utter crap and Azuma is the worse Yoshino.

 

The only good cruiser (not great, mind you, just good) IJN has at the high tiers is Atago. The rest are just poor apparitions sailing around to be farmed and begging RNGesus to inflict a fire or two.

WG's silent revenge for Tsushima.

[st_dasa]

11 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

Nope, recently I even switched from UU to range mod. The issue with the UU is that it leaves you at 17,5 km range with no armor to speak of and no HP to use.

One salvo from a BB that overmatches you and it's over. Hell, one decent salvo from a cruiser like Petro or Venezia does that too.

 

Before the UU was nerfed it also had the improved rudder shift, so you could juke shots. But now it's just as bad as other UUs.

 

The best thing you can hope for when sailing in Venezia is to go 1v1 against Zao. It is so one sided I catch myself hysterically laughing at the fact that they occupy the same tier.

 

Even better is when I catch a Yoshino with my Goliath at around 13-14 km. While Yoshi struggles to do literally anything, you can light him up so easily - there is literally no challenge to win. You can only lose if you somehow give broadside and Yoshino is smart enough to load AP.

[Echo_519]

That's how asymetrical balancing works. Some ships advantages work better in certain situations then others. Same with disadvantages, some can be neglected in certain situations. 

Pedro is significantly better vs Batleships then DesMoines, but in a 1v1, Pedro vs DesMoines, the DesMoines will absolutely dominate the Pedro. 

Same with Salem vs DesMoines., in a 1v1 Salem will always will, while DesMoines is significantly stronger vs DD's then Salem. 

Zao can dodge most shells from a DesMoines, but it won't dodge Stalingrads blessed 1000m/s shells. 

So the problem is not that Zao is bad, the problem is that what it's good at can often not be used...

Same with German DD's and their free 32mm pen. Super powerfull, but you barely get to use it because they deal badly with other DD's...

[Aragathor]

15 minutes ago, Echo_519 said:

That's how asymetrical balancing works. Some ships advantages work better in certain situations then others. Same with disadvantages, some can be neglected in certain situations. 

Pedro is significantly better vs Batleships then DesMoines, but in a 1v1, Pedro vs DesMoines, the DesMoines will absolutely dominate the Pedro. 

Same with Salem vs DesMoines., in a 1v1 Salem will always will, while DesMoines is significantly stronger vs DD's then Salem. 

Zao can dodge most shells from a DesMoines, but it won't dodge Stalingrads blessed 1000m/s shells. 

So the problem is not that Zao is bad, the problem is that what it's good at can often not be used...

Same with German DD's and their free 32mm pen. Super powerfull, but you barely get to use it because they deal badly with other DD's...

How many games in the Zao do you have?

[woppy101]

6 hours ago, ghostbuster_ said:

Why do you bother to play zao?

Just play petro. She does everything better than any other cruiser out there. She is even better than some BBs at things like tanking or blapping.

I do play the petro, I was just having a bit of a Marathon yesterday going through most of my tier 10s and used to really love my Zao but I was shocked how bad she is now 

[MementoMori_6030]

WG's logic is probably: "Ship X has 1 million games, this popularity proves it's well balanced." That Ship X has the lowest game count in the last 2 years is kindly ignored.

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

2 hours ago, Aragathor said:

The issue with the UU is that it leaves you at 17,5 km range with no armor to speak of and no HP to use.

 

Don't exaggerate things now.

Zao still has a 30mm midship section, a citadel that cannot be overmatched by TX BBs and good concealment. While 17.5 km range is not very comfortable, it is also far from a death sentence.

 

(Not saying that the introduction of more and more guns that overmatch 30mm hasn't hit the Zao hard - but that's not only Zao tbh).

[Ocsimano18]

59 minutes ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

WG's logic is probably: "Ship X has 1 million games, this popularity proves it's well balanced." That Ship X has the lowest game count in the last 2 years is kindly ignored.

WG's logic: the ship was played to death, we won't generate any revenue from it, so push players to grind new lines where they will spend money.

[st_dasa]

2 hours ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

 

Don't exaggerate things now.

Zao still has a 30mm midship section, a citadel that cannot be overmatched by TX BBs and good concealment. While 17.5 km range is not very comfortable, it is also far from a death sentence.

 

(Not saying that the introduction of more and more guns that overmatch 30mm hasn't hit the Zao hard - but that's not only Zao tbh).

 

1. That mid section absolutely CAN be overmatched from lots of questionable angles by all the 457mm+ caliber BBs that were added in a recent year or so.
2. Concealment is practically negated by the CVs buzzing over your head. And yeah, try to sneak up to the Petro, see how that works, will ya?

3. Range is average at best.

4. You forgot Zao's pitiful HP and bad sustainability.

5. Sh*d dpm.

 

And to conclude - what you fail to include into your ''don't exaggerate'' argument is the fact that Zao has no utility (radar) and no redeeming gimmicks to take a role of an assassin that she is advertised to be (eg. smoke), nor is she reliable at mid range firestarting as there are much better ships that fill up her role with more success.

 

P.S. 30mm deck you say can save you? Sure, the deck can troll... but it's YOU who's getting trolled.

 

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Echo_519 said:

That's how asymetrical balancing works. Some ships advantages work better in certain situations then others. Same with disadvantages, some can be neglected in certain situations. 

Pedro is significantly better vs Batleships then DesMoines, but in a 1v1, Pedro vs DesMoines, the DesMoines will absolutely dominate the Pedro. 

Same with Salem vs DesMoines., in a 1v1 Salem will always will, while DesMoines is significantly stronger vs DD's then Salem. 

Zao can dodge most shells from a DesMoines, but it won't dodge Stalingrads blessed 1000m/s shells. 

So the problem is not that Zao is bad, the problem is that what it's good at can often not be used...

Same with German DD's and their free 32mm pen. Super powerfull, but you barely get to use it because they deal badly with other DD's...

 

I'll repeat, niche and utility are big part of the game, and Zao has practically none in the current meta. What's even more insulting is the fact that WG added ships that actually perform Zao's role much, much better than she ever could or will. I am certain that WG devs know what they are doing and it is no coincidence that we got in the meantime a number of t10s that practically ''succeeded'' Zao. All in the name of the ''grind''.

[ColonelPete]

3 hours ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

WG's logic is probably: "Ship X has 1 million games, this popularity proves it's well balanced." That Ship X has the lowest game count in the last 2 years is kindly ignored.

 

2 hours ago, Ocsimano18 said:

WG's logic: the ship was played to death, we won't generate any revenue from it, so push players to grind new lines where they will spend money.

Neither has the Zao the lowest game count of the last 2 years, nor was she played to death. Since the player base does not consist only of veterans, who played the game for 5 years, but indeed has many new players (notice the complaints on the forum), there are actually many players who did not play Zao yet. Among the new players you often hear that they go up the german line and surprise, Hindenburg is the most played Tier X cruiser...

Spoiler

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20210731/eu_2month/average_ship_u.html

 

Btw. Des Moines is still quite popular for being one of the first Tier X CA in the game and I do not see anyone or anything pushing players away from her. She is still on of the strongest Tier X tech tree cruisers in the game...

5 hours ago, st_dasa said:

 

IJN has literally 0 good cruisers at tiers 9 and 10. Zao is powercrept to oblivion, Ibuki is, well... Ibuki, Yoshino is utter crap and Azuma is the worse Yoshino.

 

The only good cruiser (not great, mind you, just good) IJN has at the high tiers is Atago (and for the sole fact that she is a t8 and can, occasionally, enjoy clubbing t6-7). The rest are just poor apparitions sailing around to be farmed and begging RNGesus to inflict a fire or two on oblivious BBs.

 

Goliath is a better firestarter, Venezia superior DD hunter and Petro & A. Nevsky are better at everything.

 

P.S. Pls dont tell me how Yoshino is a good ship in the current meta, because she is not. This is coming from the 26th Yoshi player on the server.

Azuma performs quite well and she has the third strongest AP penetration of all Tier IX cruisers (after Siegfried and Kronshtadt).

The problem of Yoshi is that she is only slightly improved compared to Azuma. Per Tier, Azuma is the stronger ship.

Spoiler

 

[SV_Kompresor]

8 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Des Moines is still quite popular for being one of the first Tier X CA in the game and I do not see anyone or anything pushing players away from her.

The reason for that is probably because...

 

8 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

She is still on of the strongest Tier X tech tree cruisers in the game

Ah yes, there it is. You answered it yourself.

 

DM was updated with radar, zao was just nerfed.

[ColonelPete]

Just now, SV_Kompresor said:

The reason for that is probably because...

 

Ah yes, there it is. You answered it yourself.

The theory was that WG would push players away from old ships, since the theory is that they do not make mony with these ships. You do not see that with DM.

 

[SV_Kompresor]

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

The theory was that WG would push players away from old ships, since the theory is that they do not make mony with these ships. You do not see that with DM.

 

While the theory is certainly dumb (it's not even a theory at this point), if we go by your usual way of taking everything literally, the "ship", being singular, does not refer to other "shipS" but this one in particular.

[ColonelPete]

3 minutes ago, SV_Kompresor said:

While the theory is certainly dumb (it's not even a theory at this point), if we go by your usual way of taking everything literally, the "ship", being singular, does not refer to other "shipS" but this one in particular.

"this one" would be DM as we are talking about her....

[SV_Kompresor]

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

"this one" would be DM as we are talking about her....

Pretty sure the thread is about zao

[Pikkozoikum]

4 hours ago, Echo_519 said:

Zao can dodge most shells from a DesMoines, but it won't dodge Stalingrads blessed 1000m/s shells. 

So the problem is not that Zao is bad, the problem is that what it's good at can often not be used...

Depends on the view, Zao is bad, or many other ships are just too strong.

But a Des Moines vs Zao, the DM will always win under "fair" conditions.

 

Zao vs DM

40k HP vs 50k HP

178k DPM vs 274k DPM

 

Not just way less damage, but also less HP. If DM is bow in, she is a small target and still uses 66% dpm. Zao can full broadside, but then easy target, or only use rear, then only 50% dpm

If Des Moines uses only bow, she will still have 180k dpm and will have more hp and be a smaller target.

If Zao is not using full broadside, she will lose 50% of her 178k

 

I think the problem wih Zao, why she doesn't get something like 250k dpm is, because she has heavy damage torpedos.

 

If those hit, they hurt and do a lot, but the problem is, those are very unreliable.

[Ronchabale]

Don´t think the Zao is so bad when matched against ships of it´s "era"

More like several newer CA:s and even CL:s are way better or insanely OP 

[Pikkozoikum]

11 minutes ago, SV_Kompresor said:

zao was just nerfed.

She got later buffs like torpedo range and the IJN cruisers got more accuracy, though that doesn't help enough^^

[ColonelPete]

3 minutes ago, SV_Kompresor said:

Pretty sure the thread is about zao

Pretty sure we both were talking about DM...

[SV_Kompresor]

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

Pretty sure we both were talking about DM...

Ocsimano wasn't.

[ColonelPete]

Just now, SV_Kompresor said:

Ocsimano wasn't.

I am talking to you, not him.

[SV_Kompresor]

Just now, ColonelPete said:

I am talking to you, not him.

Clearly

[ColonelPete]

3 minutes ago, SV_Kompresor said:

Clearly

Clearly, unless you are his second account...

Spoiler

 

[SV_Kompresor]

3 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Clearly, unless you are his second account...

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