Fantasy vs reality Submarine Edition.

[Capra76]

3 hours ago, CastorTolagi said:

Name a single torpedo in the game that acts or has stats like they had IRL.

 

The aircraft torpedoes are pretty close to IRL, USN Mk 13-2 (Lexington) and RN Mk VIII (Hermes/Furious) are pretty much identical.

[The_Chiv]

7 hours ago, T0byJug said:

a few things wrong with your  history.

Balao in game

  Hide contents

 

Balao WW2

  Hide contents

 The Balao in-game is a Postwar modernized submarine carrying Mark 29 torpedoes.. a Torpedo from what i can find was designed but never entered service

 

Know the speed damage and reload..   Spead is probably not real.. But most torpedoes in game do not have real speed.. You really think the Swedish invented  90 knot torpedoes???

Also  look at there damage its minuscule same sort of damage output of CV torpedoes  6.5K compared to Gearing 17.9K damage..

Submarines have no other offensive weapons hens the reload speed

 

Also in Video his comments about BBs being owned by all classes of ships in the game......   God Flamu getting that greedy for clicks that he is now pandering to BBBabies (listen from 10 mins in)

Also have any of you tested Subs in PT server.. how often in a DD did you do one  depth-charge drop on a submarine and kill in instantly..   (another comment that Flamu made that is just wrong) it takes Multiple drops.

 

Flamu is sensationalizing his rage to get clicks.. The review is not accurate at all

Yes post ww2 the Balao's Mk 14 torps were replaced. Even still they did not have that much range.

 

Flamu is not entirely wrong. If a bb is pushing up he has to contend with DDS, island camping CAs, CV's, other BBS, and now Subs that can consistently put 5k-9.8k per torp on target every 40 seconds with little to no counter play. Now yes I know his channel and twitch thrive on outrage, but WG gives enough to keep him constantly supplied as much of what they do it pisses off most of the community.

[The_Chiv]

7 hours ago, arquata2019 said:

Speaking of subs,

just as i read in one of the WG's video. this sub is quite nice :D
(took the screen from battlestations pacific)      how long before this? (plz not.. as of now)

The I400 was the IJN super weapon meant to plague bomb the Panama canal. The idea was to make several of these sneak in and just turn the whole canal into death trap with plague bombs. Luckily they only made a few. 

 

Personally I would rather have 

 

 

yes those are 203mm guns on it

[The_Chiv]

5 hours ago, T0byJug said:

mmmmmm  BB can do that every 30 secs..   Most DD's can one-shot any ship they can see with a well-placed torp strike and it was more like 4-5k a torp not 5 to 7k

Difference is you can mitigate a bb and a dd by active maneuvering and throttling. You can not do so against a sub.

[Robber_Baron]

8 hours ago, CastorTolagi said:

Name a single torpedo in the game that acts or has stats like they had IRL.

You'll still have either the speed or the range wrong, but since the last patch US torps ingame have a realistic fail rate when launched against allies.

[159Hunter]

6 hours ago, Varian_Dorn said:

1.) Flamu is trash. He often sells his opinion as fact, even if it is far from fact - and does so in the rudest and most obnoxious way.

The fact that he knows and understands more about the game than most of the playerbase (you and I included) does make his opinion more interesting to listen to. But as with every streamer it should be taken with a grain of salt.

6 hours ago, Varian_Dorn said:

The only good thing about him is that all the rage kids out there have an anchor (pun intended) to hang on to.

And now who his posting obnoxious content?

[Ashardalon_Dragnipur]

why do homing torps need so much speed?

at a certain point they go fast enough that you dont even need the homing

and without pings subs become completely invisible 

[NobleRipper]

1 hour ago, The_Chiv said:

Personally I would rather have 

 

 

yes those are 203mm guns on it

You call those deck guns?!?

 

 

Ahem. Props on bringing up Surcouf! Just waiting for X1 and the various different permutations of the M-class, personally ;)

[triumphgt6]

5 minutes ago, NobleSauvage said:

You call those deck guns?!?

 

 

Ahem. Props on bringing up Surcouf! Just waiting for X1 and the various different permutations of the M-class, personally ;)

And you seem to have forgotten the legendary Soviet sub with 15" guns and torpedo aircraft. Or was that just a bad dream?

[Deckeru_Maiku]

2 hours ago, triumphgt6 said:

And you seem to have forgotten the legendary Soviet sub with 15" guns and torpedo aircraft. Or was that just a bad dream?

You mean the one that single-handedly won the Battle of Tsushima for the russians?

[Gvozdika]

8 minutes ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

You mean the one that single-handedly won the Battle of Tsushima for the russians?

The Russians ended that battle with rather a lot of submarines if I recall..... 

 

....the trouble was they started out with floating ships. 

[NobleRipper]

9 minutes ago, Gvozdika said:

The Russians ended that battle with rather a lot of submarines if I recall..... 

 

....the trouble was they started out with floating ships. 

Much like minesweepers, any ship can also be a submarine... Once.

[Gnomus]

18 hours ago, triumphgt6 said:

And you seem to have forgotten the legendary Soviet sub with 15" guns and torpedo aircraft. Or was that just a bad dream?

 

No need to go for bad dreams, as in this case WG can pick something actually build and used. Nicely 1950's technology, so "fits for WoWS" perfectly.

 

May I present to you: Juliett class submarine, aka Project 651 

 

Then it's up to WG to decide if they use:

1) SS-N-3a Shaddock / P-6 (450 km range, speed 0,9 mach, 1000 kg warhead)

2) SS-N-3c Shaddock / P-5 Pyatyorka (750 km range, speed 0,9 mach, 200-350 kt nuclear warhead)

3) SS-N-12 Sandbox / P-500 Bazalt (550 km range, speed 2,5 mach, 1000 kg warhead) (never mind this is 70's design)

 

There's some much potential with submarines and Russian tech...

[Johnny_Moneto]

Am 27.7.2021 um 10:12, T0byJug sagte:

Subs are still in testing and this is something they are trying. 

I think the tests are almost over. What we see with 0.10.7 will be coarsely it. The commander skills are implemented, the equipment is implemented, we have tiers 6, 8, and 10. My guess is that we are down to the fine tuning of parameters but the general gameplay is a done deal.

[Johnny_Moneto]

Am 27.7.2021 um 11:18, Gvozdika sagte:

Subs as they are currently are basically toxic to the game. A good comparison is the hated arty in WOT which, on paper - is pretty ineffective and doesn't kill you all that often compared to the various other classes. Yet it is the shining example of how a class doesn't have to be overpowered to be broken.

Yeah. All the people that think Arty is the equivalent to CVs, it's actually the EBRs.

They can pop up anywhere on the map at any time, disrupting otherwise good positioning.

A good portion of damage dealt to them is just a joke (absorbed by tires).

They can deal good damage, shooting skill is called auto-lock-on.

They can fly.

Many players totally despise them.

[Prophecy82]

16 hours ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

You mean the one that single-handedly won the Battle of Tsushima for the russians?

Its name was "Kamchatka" IIRC. 

[Procrastes]

20 hours ago, Robber_Baron said:

You'll still have either the speed or the range wrong, but since the last patch US torps ingame have a realistic fail rate when launched against allies.

Oh, I dunno. Weren't US Navy torps rather good at sinking allies? I believe there's at least one case on record of a Mark Something US torpedo doing a full circle and sinking the submarine that launched it. Although maybe sinking yourself doesn't strictly count as sinking an ally...?

[Itwastuesday]

Submarines don't seem all that fun to play. Again one of these things, good against pushing battleships. Might as well be great at hunting dinosaurs.

[The_Chiv]

3 hours ago, Procrastes said:

Oh, I dunno. Weren't US Navy torps rather good at sinking allies? I believe there's at least one case on record of a Mark Something US torpedo doing a full circle and sinking the submarine that launched it. Although maybe sinking yourself doesn't strictly count as sinking an ally...?

Yes that was a mark 14 torp.

[The_Chiv]

2 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

Submarines don't seem all that fun to play. Again one of these things, good against pushing battleships. Might as well be great at hunting dinosaurs.

The problem is everything already tries to hunt battleships because people like high damage numbers at the end of battle. Never mind the fact that killing DD's and cruisers tends to win games as it blinds bbs and takes away support. People just want to damage farm so yeah BBs already have enough predators to deal with.

[lovelacebeer]

10 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

Yes that was a mark 14 torp.

One of the very few times a mark 14 actually sunk anything.

[The_Chiv]

8 minutes ago, lovelacebeer said:

One of the very few times a mark 14 actually sunk anything.

there are some IJN cv's who would say otherwise.

 

[lovelacebeer]

10 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

there are some IJN cv's who would say otherwise.

 

Fair point once all the issues were worked out 

[Procrastes]

On 7/27/2021 at 11:31 AM, T0byJug said:

Do Subs need more work yes..   Can WG make them work.. Well lets see

A commendable attitude, Captain @T0byJug - no irony intended. I wish I could share your optimism.

 

I do believe that Wargaming could make submarines work, if they are prepared to do what it takes. What this means, in my opinion, is that they would have to make submarines the utltimate high risk, high reward-class, with a very demanding playstyle. It is the only way to make a class that relies on stealth and ambush work in an arcade PvP game such as World of Warships. At the moment, destroyers fill this niche in the game. They can exert a great and often deciding influence on a battle, but if they mess up they tend to get heavily punished for it. This has worked rather well over all these years since World of Warships was first launched. Building on that type of gameplay, adapted to fit the special characteristics of submarines, would probably be the best way to about it. Mind you, this would have to be done in a way that would not at the same time make destroyers redundant. 

 

Sadly, as it were, I do not believe that Wargaming is prepared to go this way. In view of their design choices these last few years, most notably with regard to the carrier rework, I think it far more likely that they are about to go the other way and make submarines as user-friendly as it will take to reach their pre-determined player numbers. In other words, what I fear is that we shall have another - one might even say inverted - CV situation. We shall have to deal with another ship class that operates outside the boundaries of ordinary surface ship-to-ship combat, with all that will entail in the way of frustration and boredom on both sides. 

 

"Boring Bland Boats", is what IChase calls submarines in his recent video. If this is a correct evaluation, it means that subs are not only boring to play against; they are also boring to play. Somehow this seems eerily reminiscent of another dubiously designed ship class - but I am beginning to go in circles here. As I will most likely do when I find myself up against a submarine or two come launch day... we shall see who goes home with the laundry.

 

This being said, I agree that we might still be positively surprised. Let's hope for the best!

 

 

[Itwastuesday]

2 hours ago, The_Chiv said:

The problem is everything already tries to hunt battleships because people like high damage numbers at the end of battle. Never mind the fact that killing DD's and cruisers tends to win games as it blinds bbs and takes away support. People just want to damage farm so yeah BBs already have enough predators to deal with.

Yeah. Including other battleships, really, with their crossmap ranges, high explosive rounds and often the ability to get full pens on other bb superstructures. The latter is something I feel should go entirely, it seems to me that the design is - or should be - that the superstructure is junk you shoot when there's nothing better you can shoot, but being able to arm your battleship caliber shells on this junk seems stupid.