Fantasy vs reality Submarine Edition.

[RossijskijAxisFlot]

6 minuti fa, Prophecy82 ha scritto:

 

There was at least one project to slap a V2 on a german sub to bombard Murica. Can I haz this? 

Sure Hanz, zis ist great !

[Hugh_Ruka]

11 minutes ago, Prophecy82 said:

 

There was at least one project to slap a V2 on a german sub to bombard Murica. Can I haz this? 

V1 would be hilarious enough ...

[Prophecy82]

1 minute ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

V1 would be hilarious enough ...

Deck Pen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Belt pen

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

34 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

That tickle their target when they hit..Subs are still in testing and this is something they are trying.  

 

...

 

This Video is Click bate Pure and simple. below is a much better Video. not sure i agree with it all but  a lot  more representative than Flamu's Junk

 

Noice. 'They' are still trying to make the rest of this game work by making it worse every update. Subs will be another pointless addition to the game, looks cool, plays like junk, still makes money because playerbase are hoarding zombies by now.

[T0byJug]

Just now, Prophecy82 said:

Deck Pen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Belt pen

next  you will be wanting Lancasters with Tallboy bombs.. 

[Prophecy82]

Just now, T0byJug said:

next  you will be wanting Lancasters with Tallboy bombs.. 

Not in a sub threat.... 

[HassenderZerhacker]

2 hours ago, The_Chiv said:

So today I was watching a video by everyone's Favorite Finish Fire starter and I noticed something that just made my brain hurt, a lot. 

 

Balao class Submarine has 14.2km torps that travel at 72kts. 

 

Ok lets pause for a second so I may put on my Naval historian hat.

The Balao class submarine was armed with mk 14 torpedos as were all USN subs in ww2. These things...well lets just say they had some issue. If you ever hear about a sub that damn near sunk itself with its own torpedo, yep thats this torp. Eventually they worked out most of the technical issue but it was a bad design all around. The MK 14 torpedo had 2 speed settings slow and fast. Slow was 31kts which gave it a range of 9000yds or 8.2km, Fast was 46kts with a range of 4500 yds or 4.1km. 

 

Historian hat off, RAGING ENTITLED GAMER HAT ON. WTF WG. Look I get you need to make the ship competitive but there are dds who do not have that range and speed at t10 let alone the ability to home the torpedoes in on target. Oh yeah and 40 second reloads. Seriously a dd with its crew gets 75-120 seconds to reload its torps but a SUB that has a three man crew using chains and hoist is loading torpedoes in 40 seconds. Thats is some Hollywood BS Fantasy right their. 

 

WG what you have made is a platform that will ensure a return to the camping meta and one that punishes a class that already has a hard counter. This design is toxic, unfun and if you thought the CV rework caused a decline in player base,  just wait. 

 

it was entirely previsible that the would has become a pile of steaming nonsensical poop.
just stay away and don't allow yourself to be used by WG as free content for their premium shoot them up game.

[Yedwy]

37 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

That tickle their target when they hit..Subs are still in testing and this is something they are trying.  

 

Flamus video he posted is not in any way showing the Submarine gameplay.  He was left completely unmolested by any ship trying to counter him at all. This video paints a completely false impression of the gameplay..

 

This is the same as posting a Shima Video where enemy teems just go in straight lines and constant speeds so Shima hits with all torps and proclaiming Shima is OP.. OR a BB where enemy team just present you with broadsides all the time.

 

This Video is Click bate Pure and simple. below is a much better Video. not sure i agree with it all but  a lot  more representative than Flamu's Junk

 

 

I didnt even watch the Flamus vid, in this u posted IChase just repeats its like super weird for 10 minutes, what I see however is ships dying with every good salvo he lands, hardly something to call a tickle now is it...

 

Oh and BTW the homing torps are in the sub mechanic for such a long time I think we can call them a permanent feature and not "something they are trying"

[lovelacebeer]

17 minutes ago, Prophecy82 said:

 

There was at least one project to slap a V2 on a german sub to bombard Murica. Can I haz this? 

If WG think they can make money from it I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised honestly if it was introduced in a years time. 

[Prophecy82]

1 minute ago, lovelacebeer said:

If WG think they can make money from it I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised honestly if it was introduced in a years time. 

Lets face it. After $ubs what will the monkey-brains come up with next? 

Command a Freighter seems to be a bit boring... so Missile Cruisers will be the next big thing. Actually there already was an internal testing. But they are not planning to implent it. 

Like bigger guns then Yamato or Subs... oh wait. 

[RossijskijAxisFlot]

6 minuti fa, Prophecy82 ha scritto:

Lets face it. After $ubs what will the monkey-brains come up with next? 

Command a Freighter seems to be a bit boring... so Missile Cruisers will be the next big thing. Actually there already was an internal testing. But they are not planning to implent it. 

Like bigger guns then Yamato or Subs... oh wait. 

everything is perfect, I'm having fun with my BBs. I love to be a target for all 

[T0byJug]

7 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

I didnt even watch the Flamus vid, in this u posted IChase just repeats its like super weird for 10 minutes, what I see however is ships dying with every good salvo he lands, hardly something to call a tickle now is it...

 

Oh and BTW the homing torps are in the sub mechanic for such a long time I think we can call them a permanent feature and not "something they are trying"

He got detention..  with the first 3 torps that hit a target   His next 5 torpedo hits did under 20k damage he tickled low a health ship and sub to death

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 1 Stunde, lovelacebeer sagte:

 asking for the I-400 so I’m certain it will come as a premium

A weeb premium, betcha.

[Gvozdika]

Subs as they are currently are basically toxic to the game. A good comparison is the hated arty in WOT which, on paper - is pretty ineffective and doesn't kill you all that often compared to the various other classes. Yet it is the shining example of how a class doesn't have to be overpowered to be broken.

 

1) Doesn't do that much damage really.

2) Cannot take objectives, hold ground, etc. without the team doing the heavy lifting.

3) Encourages camping behind hard cover, discourages movement away from cover.

4) Able to strike out of the blue - so discourages pushing in general. Disproportionately strikes those leading the charge (e.g. those spotted first).

5) Mind-numbing to play. Frustrating to play against. 

 

Oh - sounds familiar..... 

[Yedwy]

14 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

He got detention..  with the first 3 torps that hit a target   His next 5 torpedo hits did under 20k damage he tickled low a health ship and sub to death

Riiight couse everone just shrugs off 5-7k citadel damage x 2,3 or 4 every 40-50s… 

Well we shall see soon enough i guess, I will try the sub play when its finished and see if I like it enough to stick around if not (which I deem the likely outcome) and they still have this trash mechanic WG and their target audience can enjoy it without me…

[T0byJug]

4 minutes ago, Gvozdika said:

Subs as they are currently are basically toxic to the game. A good comparison is the hated arty in WOT which, on paper - is pretty ineffective and doesn't kill you all that often compared to the various other classes. Yet it is the shining example of how a class doesn't have to be overpowered to be broken.

 

 

Oh - sounds familiar..... 

1) Doesn't do that much damage really. True

2) Cannot take objectives, hold ground, etc. without the team doing the heavy lifting.in fact pretty good at both. when surfaced can take objectives Low detection and the ability to dive and hid is there gonna be spotted makes it less Dangarouse than in a DD

3) Encourages camping behind hard cover, discourages movement away from cover. Nonmoving targets penned in by islands is a submarine's best target. Not least as if dived RPF will not give you a clue you're being flanked. so if players do as you say they are doing the wrong thing against a sub... Open water and moving is the best defence against a submarine

4) Able to strike out of the blue - so discourages pushing in general. as can Destroyers and there torpedoes do a LOT more damage

5) Mind-numbing to play. Frustrating to play against.  They are a different pace than other ships and not really my thing im a DD man (over 7600 games in DD) but mind-numbing is a bit strong a word i think

 

Do Subs need more work yes..   Can WG make them work.. Well lets see

[T0byJug]

5 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Riiight couse everone just shrugs off 5-7k citadel damage x 2,3 or 4 every 40-50s… 

Well we shall see soon enough i guess, I will try the sub play when its finished and see if I like it enough to stick around if not (which I deem the likely outcome) and they still have this trash mechanic WG and their target audience can enjoy it without me…

mmmmmm  BB can do that every 30 secs..   Most DD's can one-shot any ship they can see with a well-placed torp strike and it was more like 4-5k a torp not 5 to 7k

[WWDragon]

9 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

mmmmmm  BB can do that every 30 secs..   Most DD's can one-shot any ship they can see with a well-placed torp strike and it was more like 4-5k a torp not 5 to 7k

Please dont bring up facts, it disturbs the narrative.

[lovelacebeer]

From what I have seen thus far the best way to deal with Subs as a BB is to stay pretty far back keep moving and switch to HE to grind down targets at long range, its almost as though the Dead Eye meta was made to fit with Subs perfectly. 

[Yedwy]

30 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

mmmmmm  BB can do that every 30 secs..   Most DD's can one-shot any ship they can see with a well-placed torp strike and it was more like 4-5k a torp not 5 to 7k

Really? Whats the damage on those Balao fish again?

[Varian_Dorn]

Ok, 3 observations here:

 

1.) Flamu is trash. He often sells his opinion as fact, even if it is far from fact - and does so in the rudest and most obnoxious way. The only good thing about him is that all the rage kids out there have an anchor (pun intended) to hang on to.

 

2.) Compared to the wide playerbase there is still not enough information available to truely scope the impact the current submarine gameplay has, or rather, will have. Probably one of the reasons WG does this "half-release" in 0.10.7

 

3.) To anyone coming in with serious claims of reality: if you want reality, go join the freakin' navy. World of Warships does a decent job at emulating certain aspects of real warships - but reality was, at best, always just a small part of the picture.

One of the oldest examples for this? Just read up on the firing range of a Yamato class battleship. Then think of the explanation why the ship doesn't have this range in-game. And then think of the fact that open sea has hard borders for ships to skid along on.

Reality? Seriously? 

[T0byJug]

14 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Really? Whats the damage on those Balao fish again?

arrr your talking about Tier X.. mmmm 6.5K damage against ships with extensive Torpedo belt reduction and often aproaching 100k health and  heal..   and again BBs can do this every 30 secs and Gearing for example has 17.9k Damage torpedos 10 of them

[Redwing6891]

2 hours ago, CastorTolagi said:

Name a single torpedo in the game that acts or has stats like they had IRL.

Again, a good point.

 

I think what makes all this so difficult is the mix of real life data (say ships' dimensions and speeds) with fantasy (e.g. torpedo speeds and characteristics). The former raises some expectations which then get dashed by the latter.

 

If WG discarded the ship skins and made this a full science fiction game (like TIE fighter, X-wing, Wing Commander of lore) which only followed its own fictitious laws then it would all be a bit easier to accept.

 

It is this half-way house that makes it unpalatable for a lot of players. It is like watching 'The Death of Stalin' as a ship game - but with Stalin still very much alive.

[WWDragon]

1 hour ago, Varian_Dorn said:

Just read up on the firing range of a Yamato class battleship. Then think of the explanation why the ship doesn't have this range in-game. And then think of the fact that open sea has hard borders for ships to skid along on.

Actually the record of the longest range hit by a naval gun does for ... its a tie with Scharnhorst hitting Glorious and Warspite hitting Guilio Cesare at 24km.

 

Also Yamato? The Cannone da 381/50 Ansaldo M1934 had a range of 42km beating both the 16-inch/50-caliber Mark 7 gun (Iowa) and the 46 cm/45 Type 94 naval gun (Yamato) yet WG gave it just 18.12km but the same dispersion it would had at 42km.

[Yedwy]

1 hour ago, T0byJug said:

arrr your talking about Tier X.. mmmm 6.5K damage against ships with extensive Torpedo belt reduction and often aproaching 100k health and  heal..   and again BBs can do this every 30 secs and Gearing for example has 17.9k Damage torpedos 10 of them

1. First you said there is no such damage, and now it seems there is, if you missed it I specifically have a wide variety of damage numbers to cover variety of tiers... I mean the damage can be even less then 5k per fish and thats your counter argument to my entire post? Ok fair enough, but since you so aptly put it 3k cit damage against a 50k ship is the same as 6k damage against a 100k ship and several of those per salvo each 40 or 50 seconds will add up quickly...

 

2. Torpedo belt doesnt mean sh*t agianst sub torps since they bypass it when locked on with a "dual ping" now does it? Unless they removed that part of the mechanic but looking at those vids it doesnt look like that to me...

 

3. Gearing torps aside from actually being reduced by the torpedo belt by a significant percentage unlike sub torps dont turn around islands and dont follow you in turns when you try to dodge them, WG has a long history of making their newest toy project OP for people to flock into buying in but this sub BS really takes the cake and then some...

 

Feel free to believe in WG not effing this up but I for one predict total sh*tstorm when this hits the live server for real and after a small boost in numbers due to the "target audience" this game is going down the WOWP path or even worse, now we ll see who is right...