Fantasy vs reality Submarine Edition.

[The_Chiv]

So today I was watching a video by everyone's Favorite Finish Fire starter and I noticed something that just made my brain hurt, a lot. 

 

Balao class Submarine has 14.2km torps that travel at 72kts. 

 

Ok lets pause for a second so I may put on my Naval historian hat.

The Balao class submarine was armed with mk 14 torpedos as were all USN subs in ww2. These things...well lets just say they had some issue. If you ever hear about a sub that damn near sunk itself with its own torpedo, yep thats this torp. Eventually they worked out most of the technical issue but it was a bad design all around. The MK 14 torpedo had 2 speed settings slow and fast. Slow was 31kts which gave it a range of 9000yds or 8.2km, Fast was 46kts with a range of 4500 yds or 4.1km. 

 

Historian hat off, RAGING ENTITLED GAMER HAT ON. WTF WG. Look I get you need to make the ship competitive but there are dds who do not have that range and speed at t10 let alone the ability to home the torpedoes in on target. Oh yeah and 40 second reloads. Seriously a dd with its crew gets 75-120 seconds to reload its torps but a SUB that has a three man crew using chains and hoist is loading torpedoes in 40 seconds. Thats is some Hollywood BS Fantasy right their. 

 

WG what you have made is a platform that will ensure a return to the camping meta and one that punishes a class that already has a hard counter. This design is toxic, unfun and if you thought the CV rework caused a decline in player base,  just wait. 

[Yedwy]

9 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

WG what you have made is a platform that will ensure a return to the camping meta and one that punishes a class that already has a hard counter. This design is toxic, unfun and if you thought the CV rework caused a decline in player base,  just wait. 

It doesnt matter to them, the marketing dep already reported the projected revenue and the accounting already spent the money they are supposed to get from subs, thats the likely reason they are pushing out all the premium ships at such frantic rate of late and rewarm the old shelved projects such as VF CVs etc... WG know that after the subs hit randoms they will have s good run of selling sub premiums and after that the game will be the second WOWP filled with bots everywhere and few live people that will come in take a look and bug out...

[lovelacebeer]

The whole submarine project abandons any pretence of any nod towards realism. This is a really poorly thought out project where WG just want to shoehorn in subs without doing any of the necessary major changes to make them actually fit. 
 

From my experience playing with them vs against them they are the perfect camping tool you can totally deny a cap and punish any destroyer foolish enough to try capping. 
 

However as @Yedwy correctly states WG smells money so subs are going to be shoved in, and followed by a flurry of premiums.

 

My honest assessment from playing subs is: there are roughly 171,146 words in the English language and despite that it is impossible to adequately express just how bad this egregious project is, in both how lazily it’s being shoved in and how appalling the impact will be. 

 

[MementoMori_6030]

This game is science fiction with the vehicles dressed in ship costumes.

[Tanaka_15]

10 minutes ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

This game is science fiction with the vehicles dressed in ship costumes.

true.

 

And to OP sunken cost. SUBS need to be a succes, and bring cash no matter what. WG is a corp, the will kill enitre game and all other classes to meet the Cash targetes on short teram just like they did with CV rework. 

[Wulf_Ace]

i ve never seen a company that produces things that nobody wants.

[anonym_cwVecOS6ecVy]

What WG always did was care about money. They did never care about the game's health. They have stepped over the line long ago, the game already became a wreck.

[Cyclops_]

Do you remember when they had the Subs in the news page showing old preserved subs on display, then we have subs coming in to the game, now they are showing preserved display Russian missile launching ships, so how long before they come into the game??

[Andrewbassg]

35 minutes ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

This game is science fiction with the vehicles dressed in ship costumes.

I can understand the fiction part, but... the science??

 

Ahh...nvm i got it You were talking about those 60's B C  D E F movies....

 

 

 

 

Or how I saw it

 

[T0byJug]

1 hour ago, The_Chiv said:

So today I was watching a video by everyone's Favorite Finish Fire starter and I noticed something that just made my brain hurt, a lot. 

 

Balao class Submarine has 14.2km torps that travel at 72kts. 

 

Ok lets pause for a second so I may put on my Naval historian hat.

The Balao class submarine was armed with mk 14 torpedos as were all USN subs in ww2. These things...well lets just say they had some issue. If you ever hear about a sub that damn near sunk itself with its own torpedo, yep thats this torp. Eventually they worked out most of the technical issue but it was a bad design all around. The MK 14 torpedo had 2 speed settings slow and fast. Slow was 31kts which gave it a range of 9000yds or 8.2km, Fast was 46kts with a range of 4500 yds or 4.1km. 

 

Historian hat off, RAGING ENTITLED GAMER HAT ON. WTF WG. Look I get you need to make the ship competitive but there are dds who do not have that range and speed at t10 let alone the ability to home the torpedoes in on target. Oh yeah and 40 second reloads. Seriously a dd with its crew gets 75-120 seconds to reload its torps but a SUB that has a three man crew using chains and hoist is loading torpedoes in 40 seconds. Thats is some Hollywood BS Fantasy right their. 

 

WG what you have made is a platform that will ensure a return to the camping meta and one that punishes a class that already has a hard counter. This design is toxic, unfun and if you thought the CV rework caused a decline in player base,  just wait. 

a few things wrong with your  history.

Balao in game

Spoiler

 

Balao WW2

Spoiler

 The Balao in-game is a Postwar modernized submarine carrying Mark 29 torpedoes.. a Torpedo from what i can find was designed but never entered service

 

Know the speed damage and reload..   Spead is probably not real.. But most torpedoes in game do not have real speed.. You really think the Swedish invented  90 knot torpedoes???

Also  look at there damage its minuscule same sort of damage output of CV torpedoes  6.5K compared to Gearing 17.9K damage..

Submarines have no other offensive weapons hens the reload speed

 

Also in Video his comments about BBs being owned by all classes of ships in the game......   God Flamu getting that greedy for clicks that he is now pandering to BBBabies (listen from 10 mins in)

Also have any of you tested Subs in PT server.. how often in a DD did you do one  depth-charge drop on a submarine and kill in instantly..   (another comment that Flamu made that is just wrong) it takes Multiple drops.

 

Flamu is sensationalizing his rage to get clicks.. The review is not accurate at all

[Redwing6891]

5 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

a few things wrong with your  history.

Balao in game

  Hide contents

 

Balao WW2

  Hide contents

 The Balao in-game is a Postwar modernised submarine carrying Mark 29 torpedoes.. a Torpedo from what i can find was designed but never entered service

Nice! And a good argument. However, a quick search for the Mark 29 torpedo yields this:

 

Speed (knots)   Low, 21  High, 28

Range (yards)   Low, 12,000  High, 4000

 

Source: A Brief History of U.S. Navy Torpedo Development - Part 2 (maritime.org)

 

Hardly the in-game performance. So, the original point is still valid, I think.

[Prophecy82]

WG is bending/breaking "historical accuracy" as they please. 

So lets just drop the masquerade and throw history out of the window. 

Its a game with historical setting. So the ships have to look somewhat historical but thats all. History is "paint" in this case for a badly designed class-mechanic. 

[arquata2019_]

Speaking of subs,

just as i read in one of the WG's video. this sub is quite nice :D
(took the screen from battlestations pacific)      how long before this? (plz not.. as of now)

[Redwing6891]

This is turning into a real (?) life version of Operation Petticoat...

 

"We've sunk... a truck!"

[NoirLotus]

5 minutes ago, Redwing6891 said:

This is turning into a real (?) life version of Operation Petticoat...

 

"We sank... a truck!"

Hey, that part of the film is inspired by real facts at least !!

[T0byJug]

15 minutes ago, Redwing6891 said:

Nice! And a good argument. However, a quick search for the Mark 29 torpedo yields this:

 

Speed (knots)   Low, 21  High, 28

Range (yards)   Low, 12,000  High, 4000

 

Source: A Brief History of U.S. Navy Torpedo Development - Part 2 (maritime.org)

 

Hardly the in-game performance. So, the original point is still valid, I think.

Most torpedoes in game have unrealistic speeds.

 

 

[Yedwy]

7 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

Most torpedoes in game have unrealistic speeds.

Yes and no homing

[lovelacebeer]

19 minutes ago, arquata2019 said:

Speaking of subs,

just as i read in one of the WG's video. this sub is quite nice :D
(took the screen from battlestations pacific)      how long before this? (plz not.. as of now)

Oh don’t worry ever since the sub project was first hinted every single announcement has been greeted with at least 1 person asking for the I-400 so I’m certain it will come as a premium.

[arquata2019_]

3 minuti fa, lovelacebeer ha scritto:

Oh don’t worry ever since the sub project was first hinted every single announcement has been greeted with at least 1 person asking for the I-400 so I’m certain it will come as a premium.

I don't remember if Sen Toku was the one that could launch planes... something like that, but oh no, why more premiums x.x

[CastorTolagi]

Name a single torpedo in the game that acts or has stats like they had IRL.

[herrjott]

1 hour ago, Cyclops_ said:

Do you remember when they had the Subs in the news page showing old preserved subs on display, then we have subs coming in to the game, now they are showing preserved display Russian missile launching ships, so how long before they come into the game??

 WG must still have the models of the originally planned Soviet DD split and we all know, they do not like to have unused assets. I guess the Dutch airstrike mechanic could be reused for missile strikes

 

16 minutes ago, lovelacebeer said:

Oh don’t worry ever since the sub project was first hinted every single announcement has been greeted with at least 1 person asking for the I-400 so I’m certain it will come as a premium.

Do not forget the inevitable ARP-clone for maximum cashgrab

[T0byJug]

33 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Yes and no homing

That tickle their target when they hit..Subs are still in testing and this is something they are trying.  

 

Flamus video he posted is not in any way showing the Submarine gameplay.  He was left completely unmolested by any ship trying to counter him at all. This video paints a completely false impression of the gameplay..

 

This is the same as posting a Shima Video where enemy teems just go in straight lines and constant speeds so Shima hits with all torps and proclaiming Shima is OP.. OR a BB where enemy team just present you with broadsides all the time.

 

This Video is Click bate Pure and simple. below is a much better Video. not sure i agree with it all but  a lot  more representative than Flamu's Junk

 

 

[SodaBubbles]

1 hour ago, Tanaka_15 said:

true.

 

And to OP sunken cost. SUBS need to be a succes, and bring cash no matter what. WG is a corp, the will kill enitre game and all other classes to meet the Cash targetes on short teram just like they did with CV rework. 

As someone noted in my twitter feed the other day, capitalism means see how bad you can make a product before people decide not to buy it. 

[lovelacebeer]

25 minutes ago, arquata2019 said:

I don't remember if Sen Toku was the one that could launch planes... something like that, but oh no, why more premiums x.x

Would be a bit difficult to make a line of carrier subs whilst various nations did experiment with carrier submarines, also do you seriously think WG would miss the opportunity to make some money out of those interested in the I-400?

[Prophecy82]

11 minutes ago, lovelacebeer said:

Would be a bit difficult to make a line of carrier subs whilst various nations did experiment with carrier submarines, also do you seriously think WG would miss the opportunity to make some money out of those interested in the I-400?

 

There was at least one project to slap a V2 on a german sub to bombard Murica. Can I haz this?