WG lied to me and I got punised

[T0byJug]

On 7/25/2021 at 1:29 PM, Yedwy said:

Really? In my country (and I would guess most EU states) NO company is exempt from refunds when purchases are made via Internet

Accept digital media the refund laws do not count for Digital media..  only physical stuff you buy online is there laws allowing for refunds

[Yedwy]

1 minute ago, T0byJug said:

Accept digital media the refund laws do not count for Digital media..  only physical stuff you buy online is there laws allowing for refunds

Sure sure, WG is giving the 1 battle return policy out of kindness of their hearts... 

[Hugh_Ruka]

1 minute ago, T0byJug said:

Accept digital media the refund laws do not count for Digital media..  only physical stuff you buy online is there laws allowing for refunds

not exactly. there is NO special case made for digital media. that means they fall under the same laws as anything else. it is not about the type of good but about the availability of proper testing/try before buy options.

[T0byJug]

Just now, Hugh_Ruka said:

not exactly. there is NO special case made for digital media. that means they fall under the same laws as anything else. it is not about the type of good but about the availability of proper testing/try before buy options.

im afraid your are wrong...  UK for example..

 

The only way you are protected by the cool of cancellation laws is if the digital item you buy  IS NOT PROVIDED to you till after the 14 day cool of period 

 

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-contracts-regulations-ajWHC8m21cAk

Quote

Exemptions

There are some circumstances where the Consumer Contracts Regulations won’t give you a right to cancel.

These include, CDs, DVDs or software if you've broken the seal on the wrapping, perishable items and tailor-made or personalised items. They also include goods with a seal for health protection and hygiene reasons that's been broken.

Also included are goods that have been mixed inseparably with other items after delivery.

Always check the terms and conditions

The minimum cancellation period that you must be given is 14 days but many sellers choose to exceed this, so always check the terms and conditions in case you have longer to change your mind.

 

Cancelling digital downloads

The Consumer Contracts Regulations contain specific provisions for digital content.

Retailers mustn’t supply digital content, such as music or software downloads, within the 14 day cancellation period, unless the consumer has given their express consent to this happening.

The consumer must also acknowledge that once the download starts they will lose their right to cancel.

If a consumer doesn’t give their consent, they have to wait until the cancellation period has ended before they can download the digital content.

This is to ensure the digital content is what you want before downloading it. 

[T0byJug]

On 7/25/2021 at 5:24 PM, Asta__Roth said:

I'll try to explain it once more for you, ok?

 

It is well within my rights to order something via internet, try it, return it and get my money back. It is a right granted to me by my country's law system as well as EU's.

The right to do that is granted to me in a LAW made by my goverment.

 

I don't understand how can you consider exercising my rights to be a fradulent move. It literally is the opposite.

 

Exercising my right (granted by a law) isn't and cannot be considered abuse or fraud.

 

By ordering, trying and returning a shirt I do not abuse any tolerance. I also get no personal gain. I act within my rights.

This is not about any tolerance, this is simply the law.

 

You can dispute the aforementioned law but the chance to success is null.

Wrong see my post above.. there are quite a few exceptions to Digital media or Physical media where the packaging seal  has been broken

[Hugh_Ruka]

6 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

im afraid your are wrong...  UK for example..

 

The only way you are protected by the cool of cancellation laws is if the digital item you buy  IS NOT PROVIDED to you till after the 14 day cool of period 

 

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-contracts-regulations-ajWHC8m21cAk

Quote

Exemptions

There are some circumstances where the Consumer Contracts Regulations won’t give you a right to cancel.

These include, CDs, DVDs or software if you've broken the seal on the wrapping, perishable items and tailor-made or personalised items. They also include goods with a seal for health protection and hygiene reasons that's been broken.

Also included are goods that have been mixed inseparably with other items after delivery.

Always check the terms and conditions

The minimum cancellation period that you must be given is 14 days but many sellers choose to exceed this, so always check the terms and conditions in case you have longer to change your mind.

 

Cancelling digital downloads

The Consumer Contracts Regulations contain specific provisions for digital content.

Retailers mustn’t supply digital content, such as music or software downloads, within the 14 day cancellation period, unless the consumer has given their express consent to this happening.

The consumer must also acknowledge that once the download starts they will lose their right to cancel.

If a consumer doesn’t give their consent, they have to wait until the cancellation period has ended before they can download the digital content.

This is to ensure the digital content is what you want before downloading it. 

breaking news, UK is not longer in the EU ...

[T0byJug]

2 hours ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

breaking news, UK is not longer in the EU ...

The Law is from when UK was still in the EU 

 

See Below from European Government site  So indeed WG are being Generuse by offering a refund with a rollback of the account its more than they are legally obliged to do 

 

Could/Should they do more I don't know, but are they breaking consumer laws NOPE not at all

 

Spoiler

 

You have used/downloaded/streamed you are not eligible for a refund. Also to cover there back in the terms and conditions on WG Shop see below

Spoiler

 I rest my case

[MannequinSkywalker]

9 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

The Law is from when UK was still in the EU 

 

Se Below from European Government site  So indeed WG are being Generuse by offering a refund with a rollback of the account its more than they are legally obliged to do 

 

Could/Should they do more I don't know, but are they breaking consumer laws NOPE not at all

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

You have used/downloaded/streamed you are not eligible for a refund. Also to cover there back in the terms and conditions on WG Shop see below

  Reveal hidden contents

 I rest my case

+1 For the information provided.

 

But i think OP has a point where he says, what WG staff-CS and Terms of Service/Eula all should match each other.

[T0byJug]

2 minutes ago, MannequinSkywalker said:

+1 For the information provided.

 

But i think OP has a point where he says, what WG staff-CS and Terms of Service/Eula all should match each other.

unfortunately, they are Human.. Yabba has already apologized if his comments were misleading..

 

My main point is to all those that have posted WG is breaking the LAW.. 

[MimosA_A]

56 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

not exactly. there is NO special case made for digital media. that means they fall under the same laws as anything else. it is not about the type of good but about the availability of proper testing/try before buy options. 

Stop spreading misinformation and read the actual laws and/or related information on this stuff before posting. For pretty much every EU country, as well as the UK this information is very easy to find and very clear.

[Hugh_Ruka]

10 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

The Law is from when UK was still in the EU 

 

Se Below from European Government site  So indeed WG are being Generuse by offering a refund with a rollback of the account its more than they are legally obliged to do 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 I rest my case

I just had a cursory google search for the relevant EU Directive, I have found my native language one: 2019/770. There are no such provisions that are described in the "Cancelling digital downloads" part in that directive. Now it may be outdated (it is from 2019 after all), but digital content and digital services are considered for the 14 day period as well with only exceptions being delivery via public sector and streaming during a performance.

 

Also please note the KEY words at the of what you highlighted: "online digital content", "starting the performance". this is valid for delivery by streaming, i.e a live event that CANNOT be returned by definition. afaik same applies to concerts. once you take part you cannot ask for a refund. only if you did not attend.

[MimosA_A]

49 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

I just had a cursory google search for the relevant EU Directive, I have found my native language one: 2019/770. There are no such provisions that are described in the "Cancelling digital downloads" part in that directive. Now it may be outdated (it is from 2019 after all), but digital content and digital services are considered for the 14 day period as well with only exceptions being delivery via public sector and streaming during a performance. 

 

Also please note the KEY words at the of what you highlighted: "online digital content", "starting the performance". this is valid for delivery by streaming, i.e a live event that CANNOT be returned by definition. afaik same applies to concerts. once you take part you cannot ask for a refund. only if you did not attend.

That's a copyright directive... EDIT: Apologies, EURLEX sent me to the wrong one. 2019/770 only describes and clarifies your and the suppliers rights when (you think) something is wrong with a digital product or cancellation of long term contracts, it does not modify or overrule 2011/83. It doesn't mention the exceptions, because it only mentions things that were not part of or clear in the articles it expands on.

 

2011/83/EU is the consumer protection one... Article 16 m.

[T0byJug]

9 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

I just had a cursory google search for the relevant EU Directive, I have found my native language one: 2019/770. There are no such provisions that are described in the "Cancelling digital downloads" part in that directive. Now it may be outdated (it is from 2019 after all), but digital content and digital services are considered for the 14 day period as well with only exceptions being delivery via public sector and streaming during a performance.

 

Also please note the KEY words at the of what you highlighted: "online digital content", "starting the performance". this is valid for delivery by streaming, i.e a live event that CANNOT be returned by definition. afaik same applies to concerts. once you take part you cannot ask for a refund. only if you did not attend.

you have that wrong again.. In streaming, it means for example Films or Music you have bought on things like Amazon/Disney Prem Content that you don't download downloaded content is easy to understand and Performance is legal speak not in the context of a show or concert or something but Performance as in Running the program..  Playing the ship is the same as running or streaming the media

[YabbaCoe]

1 hour ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

Care to enlighten us HOW ? There are several key aspects of ships you cannot check by just looking at the ship in port.

 

At some point in time there were rental options for premiums considered and the idea never came back. You can simply disable XP/credits generation for rental ships leaving players with expenses (modules, service costs) so the option is not abused ...

You can read the description of them, where are mentioned their pros and probably cons. 

Also you can check the videos and streams of our CCs, as they usually prepare the stuff for the day of the release of that ship.

We had some rental options, also they are still used mostly in winback and marketing campaigns, but so far there are no information, that it would became an option to try them out before the purchase, unfortunately. 

[T0byJug]

15 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

You can read the description of them, where are mentioned their pros and probably cons. 

Also you can check the videos and streams of our CCs, as they usually prepare the stuff for the day of the release of that ship.

We had some rental options, also they are still used mostly in winback and marketing campaigns, but so far there are no information, that it would became an option to try them out before the purchase, unfortunately. 

Also there are sites like this

https://gamemodels3d.com/games/worldofwarships/ (also douse many other games both from WG and other companys)

That you can even get info on ships not yet released (note you need to pay a small donation to see tier VI+ ships)

and don't buy the ship on the day of release wait a week or 2 or even a patch. Generally, if you buy a Dubloon ship one patch after release you can even use you vouchers that are in the Armoury 

start a thread on a forum asking about the ship your thinking of buying (ive seen quite a few of such threads)

 

Full disclosure I have a huge advantage over most of you as an ST I have more often than not played many games in the ship before it out. But there are many ways to see if a ship is any good or suits your playstyle before you buy.

[HMS_Edinburgh_C16]

what ship did that guy bought? 

[Hugh_Ruka]

1 hour ago, MimosA_A said:

That's a copyright directive... EDIT: Apologies, EURLEX sent me to the wrong one. 2019/770 only describes and clarifies your and the suppliers rights when (you think) something is wrong with a digital product or cancellation of long term contracts, it does not modify or overrule 2011/83. It doesn't mention the exceptions, because it only mentions things that were not part of or clear in the articles it expands on.

 

2011/83/EU is the consumer protection one... Article 16 m.

"the supply of digital content which is not supplied on a tangible medium if the performance has begun with the consumer’s prior express consent and his acknowledgment that he thereby loses his right of withdrawal."

 

I still have an issue with the word performance here. I guess it is an issue of "lost in translation". I have looked at my native language one and German one, both to me have a different meaning of the English version .... whatever.

It seems your view is the correct one. Unfortunately EU does use a general term for "digital content", which is not really good. Because under the same definition you can have music, movies, visual art, software etc ... and each of these categories is distinct in the specific sections. The question is, does f.e. the applicable law for music where it clashes with music as "digital content" take precedence or does the "digital content" part take precedence.

[Hugh_Ruka]

56 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

You can read the description of them, where are mentioned their pros and probably cons. 

Also you can check the videos and streams of our CCs, as they usually prepare the stuff for the day of the release of that ship.

We had some rental options, also they are still used mostly in winback and marketing campaigns, but so far there are no information, that it would became an option to try them out before the purchase, unfortunately. 

The problem with the above is, playstyles differ, ship and captain builds differ. What worked for some CC might not work for me. But I have no way to test.

 

It's the same when somebody recommends a movie to you. You may like the same genre but you might dislike that specific movie.

[MimosA_A]

29 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

"the supply of digital content which is not supplied on a tangible medium if the performance has begun with the consumer’s prior express consent and his acknowledgment that he thereby loses his right of withdrawal."

 

I still have an issue with the word performance here. I guess it is an issue of "lost in translation". I have looked at my native language one and German one, both to me have a different meaning of the English version .... whatever.

It seems your view is the correct one. Unfortunately EU does use a general term for "digital content", which is not really good. Because under the same definition you can have music, movies, visual art, software etc ... and each of these categories is distinct in the specific sections. The question is, does f.e. the applicable law for music where it clashes with music as "digital content" take precedence or does the "digital content" part take precedence. 

Yeah the choice of words can be frustrating in these kind of legal documents, but the intent of the directive is pretty clear IMHO.

Performance is quite an annoying word as it can mean several things, for example a music performance, but also just the execution of an action.

 

And I by no means think it's the best way to do things or an amazing piece of legislation that covers everything very well (hell, neither did the EU, hence the 2019 expansions ;) ), but like @T0byJug, I think it would be good if people would stop shouting that WG breaks the law and gets away with it etc.

[T0byJug]

23 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

"the supply of digital content which is not supplied on a tangible medium if the performance has begun with the consumer’s prior express consent and his acknowledgment that he thereby loses his right of withdrawal."

 

I still have an issue with the word performance here. I guess it is an issue of "lost in translation". I have looked at my native language one and German one, both to me have a different meaning of the English version .... whatever.

It seems your view is the correct one. Unfortunately EU does use a general term for "digital content", which is not really good. Because under the same definition you can have music, movies, visual art, software etc ... and each of these categories is distinct in the specific sections. The question is, does f.e. the applicable law for music where it clashes with music as "digital content" take precedence or does the "digital content" part take precedence.

Mate im not trying to say WG could not do things much better than they do.. as I say I'm really lucky as an ST I get to play ships before I buy as I test them....   as you agree the way they do it is just not against the law..   

[Karasu_Browarszky]

6 hours ago, HMS_Edinburgh_C16 said:

what ship did that guy bought? 

 

OP calls it 'Apollo', so we don't know. My gut feeling is it was Makarov...

[tocqueville8]

10 hours ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

Care to enlighten us HOW ? There are several key aspects of ships you cannot check by just looking at the ship in port.

I'm curious: what are those? The credit-making coefficient? Fuse-arming threshold?

 

You can check most things, from the armor profile to the consumables, either in Port or on https://wowsft.com/

[Karasu_Browarszky]

15 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

I'm curious: what are those? The credit-making coefficient? Fuse-arming threshold?

 

You can check most things, from the armor profile to the consumables, either in Port or on https://wowsft.com/

 

Ah, but you can't get the feel of the ship unless you been on her yourself, mate.