Co-op bot AI mess...

[BlackYeti]

Since the co-op community is pretty big in this game I'm wondering why has noone complained yet about the wild mess the bot AI has become in coop? WG introduced changes to pathfinding that were supposed to stop bots beaching into islands, but guess what, they still do that but in addition:

-bots rarely go at full speed now, stop regularly and while it is good for aiming practice, they often fail to take any objectives which especially in epicenter ends games prematurely. Also disproportionaly punishes slow-firing ships.

-bots now completely miss their salvoes very often, they used to have perfect aim if you didn't change course which was also broken in a way but now it's just laughably easy to tank multpile bots now

 

In short, last patch completely broke bot AI and I'm seriously considering returning to randoms so if that was your goal WG, mission accomplished

[SodaBubbles]

24 minutes ago, BlackYeti said:

Since the co-op community is pretty big in this game I'm wondering why has noone complained yet about the wild mess the bot AI has become in coop? WG introduced changes to pathfinding that were supposed to stop bots beaching into islands, but guess what, they still do that but in addition:

-bots rarely go at full speed now, stop regularly and while it is good for aiming practice, they often fail to take any objectives which especially in epicenter ends games prematurely. Also disproportionaly punishes slow-firing ships.

-bots now completely miss their salvoes very often, they used to have perfect aim if you didn't change course which was also broken in a way but now it's just laughably easy to tank multpile bots now

 

In short, last patch completely broke bot AI and I'm seriously considering returning to randoms so if that was your goal WG, mission accomplished

It's a mess, for sure. 

[NobleRipper]

They implemented the island-avoidance change, and it seemed to work out alright.

 

Then they changed the underwater topography for the benefit of the submarines that we won't see in-game for ages if at all which had the effect of making islands extra-sticky, so the bots started getting stuck again.

 

Progress...?

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

16 hours ago, BlackYeti said:

In short, last patch completely broke bot AI and I'm seriously considering returning to randoms so if that was your goal WG, mission accomplished

It can't be that bad, surely?

[NewHorizons_1]

18 hours ago, NobleSauvage said:

They implemented the island-avoidance change, and it seemed to work out alright.

Sadly, their team-mate avoidance has gone.

I, now, regularly see two enemy bots sailing into each other without attempting to change course to break free of each other.

[Axilian_1]

I think you'll find the screwed up  BOT AI has been mentioned by quite a few people already with the usual lack of response from any one from WG so far - I  even brought it up in the English Live stream but was promptly ignored since they were too busy trying to sell us the latest reskinned BB

 

in the majority of Co-Op games I've played - and I probably play at least 20 a day

 

1. BOTs still ram islands and even more so than before  (so that update was successful not) - usually as well this means they can't fire and neither can you hit them at medium to long range (way to go for making the game more fun for BB's)

2. BOTs on the same side - ram each  other constantly and not just 2 of them at a time. This happens  not as much as point 1. , but I've now even seen  4 enemy bots - collide with each other and then just stop and wait to be bombed/air struck out of existence with no movement at all accept grinding against each other

3. BOTs when placed on both sides still just RAM each other blindly. I can understand it if a badly damaged BOT tried to take out an enemy as a last resort but these are full strength and it's farcical 

 

and this doesn't even take into account some of the other weird stuff in coop  that I've seeing since 10.7 went live- e.g.

the whole ship jumping intact out of the water before detonated when hit ,

torpedoes and ships grounding in apparently open water 

The F**king mercy rule going berserk - declaring the match is over before slow battle ships (e.g New York , Oklahoma , Colorado etc) can even get in range to fire a first salvo  

 

and my favourite  one 

 

grounding in a shallow and somehow then seeing my ship break in two even though there's no-one firing on me

 

If WG wanted to kill off co-op (which they appear to have been trying to do for the last few updates) they are doing an amazing job 

[Anktarktic1]

Yes, I can also confirm that new bots are even worse than before. I play only coop and I know every bot personally, every rivet, every bolt, every move they make.

In addition to mentioned old "bugs" they added new ones, including that one, when bots  stop in the middle of ocean for no reason. No island, no ship, no torps infront of them or anywhere near them, they just randomly stop or slow down or reverse. And they still run away from fight from the very beginning of battle, eventhough I mentioned and described in detail this bug years ago. Soon it will be decades ago, then century, then milllenium and it still will not be fixed, they will just add more errors and bugs and reworks nobody asked for.

[NobleRipper]

16 hours ago, Axilian_1 said:

and this doesn't even take into account some of the other weird stuff in coop  that I've seeing since 10.7 went live- e.g.
...

The F**king mercy rule going berserk - declaring the match is over before slow battle ships (e.g New York , Oklahoma , Colorado etc) can even get in range to fire a first salvo  

 

Very much agreed on points 1, 2 and 3; the short matches issue is one that's been around forever though (it's the way of co-op for the destroyers and fast cruisers to get in close and torpedo everything on the red team before the slower battleships can make much impression, which is why New Yorks et al. have to work ridiculously hard to even break 200 base XP most of the time). Believe it or not, the current state is an improvement on how it used to be because both teams now start with 400 points rather than 300 (in Domination matches at least): before the change it was entirely possible to kill enough red ships quickly enough to end the match in three minutes while three or so of them were still untouched at the back. Now the matches tend to reliably last 4-5 minutes instead.

 

To echo my previous post:

 

Progress...?

 

16 hours ago, Axilian_1 said:

If WG wanted to kill off co-op (which they appear to have been trying to do for the last few updates) they are doing an amazing job 

Yeah, it's not as though they're even really trying to pretend otherwise at this point, even in a lot of their official comms. What kind of game developer goes out of their way to deliberately sabotage large portions of their own game?

[webaake]

The Mercy Rule is way more prominent since 10.0.6. It is annoying, to say the least. There are many DMG points that WG doesn't have to pay for - less XP for the players. And they save on server time as well. I don't like it. And they must fix the Bot AI next update.

[HansRoaming]

The aiming is way off now.

 

At low tiers I can see the reason to nerf bots but mid to high tiers should be as good as they can make it.

[Axilian_1]

On 7/25/2021 at 8:17 PM, HansRoaming said:

The aiming is way off now.

 

At low tiers I can see the reason to nerf bots but mid to high tiers should be as good as they can make it.

 

 The only thing that seems to have had the aiming improved is the aircraft attacks - everything else seems worse 

[HansRoaming]

2 hours ago, Axilian_1 said:

 

 The only thing that seems to have had the aiming improved is the aircraft attacks - everything else seems worse 

I actually had some rockets hit me which was astounding.

 

The aiming defo needs to be solid at mid to high tiers.

[Camperdown]

On 7/25/2021 at 2:12 PM, NobleSauvage said:

Very much agreed on points 1, 2 and 3; the short matches issue is one that's been around forever though (it's the way of co-op for the destroyers and fast cruisers to get in close and torpedo everything on the red team before the slower battleships can make much impression, which is why New Yorks et al. have to work ridiculously hard to even break 200 base XP most of the time). Believe it or not, the current state is an improvement on how it used to be because both teams now start with 400 points rather than 300 (in Domination matches at least): before the change it was entirely possible to kill enough red ships quickly enough to end the match in three minutes while three or so of them were still untouched at the back. Now the matches tend to reliably last 4-5 minutes instead.

 

To echo my previous post:

 

Progress...?

 

Yeah, it's not as though they're even really trying to pretend otherwise at this point, even in a lot of their official comms. What kind of game developer goes out of their way to deliberately sabotage large portions of their own game?

Errmmm .....  WG?

Do I get points now? 

[NobleRipper]

23 minutes ago, Camperdown said:

Errmmm .....  WG?

Do I get points now? 

You do! But they come in the form of tokens that you can put towards random bundles that, if you purchase enough of them (likely requiring extra tokens that you have to pay for separately), will eventually drop the thing you wanted in the first place

[Marblehead_1]

I would add also that from last change almost excinted battles with majority of green bots which previously were nice as allowed to made funny scores ( and also be defeated if too much imprudence ) It could be due to Dutch Cruisers event and masses of hyped people grinding missions.

 

Bots are significantly less dangerous which isn't good as I rarely saw my team losing even single ship ( I played TVIII-X so lower tiers could be different ) which due to number of points most frequently causes that 1 or 2 enemy ships remains when battle ends which most frequently it's juicy full hp slow BB. Battles are faster as bots are dying faster but overall income dropped due to ill "rat race" and full human teams. Considering how wargreed treats PvE modes we should be sure it was made with purpose. 

 

For DD players I doubt that anything has chaged ( Paolo Emilio, Kleber, Marceau and Shimakaze had awsome farming potential in such mode ) but BB's got significantly reduced farming potential. CV's I think never were good farm ships in Co-Op beyond maybe high alpha ships like FDR or meme builds like DKM CV's.

 

I hope I worded this in understandable way.

[Johnny_Moneto]

Am 24.7.2021 um 21:14, Axilian_1 sagte:

If WG wanted to kill off co-op (which they appear to have been trying to do for the last few updates) they are doing an amazing job 

I have another theory what is happening here:

From time to time a new intern starts at WG. This person is then to work on co-op ai.

WG itself don't care too much about PVE, so it's the ideal training ground.

[VonBroich]

1 hour ago, Johnny_Moneto said:

new intern

more like some kid on work experience

[ThePopesHolyFinger]

On 7/23/2021 at 10:00 PM, BlackYeti said:

Since the co-op community is pretty big in this game I'm wondering why has noone complained yet about the wild mess the bot AI has become in coop?

 

I've raised tickets about bots. More about their retarded ramming each other, but weegee really don't give a flying [edited]about it.

From memory, the response was some pish like "we base them on real players"
I might have to risk a ban by quoting word for word :)


edited - I can't find the ticket now but I've definitely commented in posts visited by Community Managers. They're strangely silent on this

 

[Origin47]

WG has really messed up co-op game. On average you make 15%-20% less xp and credits and the bots are absolutely horrendous, they take weird routes,  they bump into islands even more, they bump into each other and then the bb bot just drags the cruiser bot, they stop full broadside in the middle of the map and reverse (much like a lot of the players in random :D ). Co-op is a sub-par experience. I suppose this is WG's business model, offer sub-par experiences, like cv rework, bot AI rework, submarines. WG is their own worst enemy. 

[webaake]

There was a server maintenance stop the other day and small client update (8,4 MB). Since then the Bots seems to be back to "normal". Whatever normal is LOL.

[DirtyHeddy]

45 minutes ago, webaake said:

There was a server maintenance stop the other day and small client update (8,4 MB). Since then the Bots seems to be back to "normal". Whatever normal is LOL.

No - not at all ...

They are in the same state as before the manitenance ...

 

[SodaBubbles]

Maintenance made no difference. They mill about aimlessly. You can drive right into the center of a mass of bots and kill them all.

They really need to revert the changes.

[aleksi111]

There indeed was significant drop, IMO something like -25% drop in Co-Op earnings that the mini patch seems to have [Mostly] fixed.

Also seemed to have fixed over-zelous ramming attempts by those bots that actually moved.

 

But beyond that the Bots suffer from several issues still:

 

1. Bot gun accuracy is down the toilet

-I think it's there's also something wrong with their targeting in General as you can see bot BB's expecially shaking their turrets left and right when in CQC like they are top tier tanks in WOT trying to bait shots to cheeks.

 

2. Some Bots seemingly moving at 1/4 or 1/2 speed since match begins while others push at max speed.

 

3. Serious island ramming issues

 

4. Chain-crashes to other bots, my Record is 4 bots ramming each other in one huge cluster behind island when they all had room and no torpedoes fired at them.

 

5. Bots now have tendency, randomly so not every bot, to never repair fires.

-Not the innitial 1st, but neither when you stack extra 2 for total of 3.

 

@MrConway @YabbaCoe @TheWarJaC

Anything you know of this?

 

[Maris_Piper]

I came on the Forum to ask if WG had drugged the Bots, and found this thread, WTF are they on are they giving them the Dev Vodka fgs 

[anonym_FDOLXpxOfXXq]

3 hours ago, aleksi111 said:

Also seemed to have fixed over-zelous ramming attempts by those bots that actually moved.

Well, I still saw those happening quite a few times today, so ... not sure about that.