[ITA] Kr1gsG4ldr Players 194 posts 13,285 battles Report post #1 Posted July 15, 2021 The new changes that have been made to the bots to avoid incoming torpedoes or collisions with other ships or collisions with islands do not seem to work properly, quite the opposite. These are just a couple of examples, but i assure you it has happened a lot of times during my gaming sessions, in some of them i have found people complaining in chat about this, as it affects the ability to "do something" (i had some difficult too, do you remember Mr. Bean's skits at roundabout? To my eyes they looked like those) because we all now that coop mode can be very frustrating sometimes for a reason or another and there is no need to add other obstacles to make the life increasingly impossible for those who simply want to relax for that hour or to do some missions quickly if you don't have enough time available. I don't know if there is the same mess in the operations, didn't try them yet, but I hope not. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DK-MK] Varian_Dorn Players 804 posts 19,917 battles Report post #2 Posted July 15, 2021 Worse than before ? This is a almost frightening prospect. I'll check it out as soon as I can, thanks for the info. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NECRO] Deckeru_Maiku Beta Tester 6,636 posts 24,864 battles Report post #3 Posted July 15, 2021 10 hours ago, Varian_Dorn said: Worse than before ? This is a almost frightening prospect. I'll check it out as soon as I can, thanks for the info. And now imagine bot controlled subs getting thrown into the battle, too... Oh, the lulz we all will have... 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NWP] 159Hunter Players 4,528 posts Report post #4 Posted July 16, 2021 WG probably realized the skill gap between bots and players was increasing. So they acted fast and narrowed it again to acceptable proportions. 2 12 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yanayuki Players 283 posts 9,802 battles Report post #5 Posted July 16, 2021 Funny how people just assume there are still people at WG who can actually code. WG is by now 90% sales department, 10% graphics designers. Noone there even remotely knows how to code stuff, let alone simple AI. Their "improvement" was most likely just removing code that someone thought was "unneccessary" so they can downscale the costs for servers. 8 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[ITA] Kr1gsG4ldr Players 194 posts 13,285 battles Report post #6 Posted July 16, 2021 5 ore fa, Yanayuki ha scritto: Funny how people just assume there are still people at WG who can actually code. WG is by now 90% sales department, 10% graphics designers. Noone there even remotely knows how to code stuff, let alone simple AI. Their "improvement" was most likely just removing code that someone thought was "unneccessary" so they can downscale the costs for servers. Yes, in part i share your thoughts, but keep in mind that the wicked way in which the work was done, (the entire code should have been rewritten, or at least a big part) it could even reduce the cost of servers in the short term period, but i believe that continuous episodes of code breaking and other problems lead to inevitable maintenance costs more and more frequent to try to plug up the crap, unless they don't care anymore, which i strongly believe, could also explode everything and them simply... don't care. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Figment Beta Tester 3,801 posts 10,499 battles Report post #7 Posted July 16, 2021 Coding AI is tricky apparently. Since most of their coders code for PvP only, I'm not sure how experienced they are with AI pathing as it's not something they expect players to use much, even if they added an auto-pilot that's still super basic and flawed. The autopilot is a good example of how underdeveloped this section of the code is. Backing up is a huge problem, so is navigating some ships through narrows. The AI doesn't know when to accelerate or break to make it through a tight corner or passage, no matter how many markers you use, they tend to overshoot their mark. AI doesn't back up with steering to get to a nearby position behind you, but goes straight back up and then does something silly, or more likely choses a forward path that involves exposing your ship by going towards enemies instead of away from them. And that's not even the coding for a full NPU (non-player unit) that has to do more. Plus there's a good chance there's conflicting or hierarchical steering input. On the one hand they want NPUs to dodge torps, on the other steer towards the nearest enemy (more or less, if not outright ram it since bots on both sides steer towards one another, sometimes failing in it), avoid islands (seems last in the hierarchy). And sometimes instead of at enemies, they'll try to go for caps centers and just sit there, all confused. Target prioritization is a mess as well: sometimes they focus a player on the other side of the map with nearby threats completely ignored, which must have been triggered by something in their prioritization system (maybe based on class, hp, etc.). Either way, largest threat detection and targets of opportunity aren't selected properly, if at all. And that's beyond leading or selecting the appropriate ammo for the angle. Management of consumeables and all is also poor. Then there's the lack of target memory, where if you smoke as a DD, the AI instantly forgets you're there and you were fighting them. I mean, AI in this game is so poor, I really can't tell why people play it aside from finishing some missions quicker or get some target practice or captain retraining, because it's really not much fun to play coop. :/ 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DK-MK] Varian_Dorn Players 804 posts 19,917 battles Report post #8 Posted July 16, 2021 Coop has its merits That said, I can't detect any more or less "stupidity" on the bots than before. Which means they're still rather... direct... in their approach and still pull questionable maneuvers at times. This also makes it more embarrassing to actually lose to them ^^ 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Figment Beta Tester 3,801 posts 10,499 battles Report post #9 Posted July 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, Varian_Dorn said: Coop has its merits That said, I can't detect any more or less "stupidity" on the bots than before. Which means they're still rather... direct... in their approach and still pull questionable maneuvers at times. This also makes it more embarrassing to actually lose to them ^^ I nearly saw it happen once. I had killed 4 as a DD, got hydroed and died to fire as I had just used repair at low hp, but figured the remaining players would finish of the rest with ease. Imagine my horror when they go and get Soyuzed in the citadel one by one. Luckily one survived at 1500ish hp. Saving my 100% rating in Coop. I mean seriously, people lose these matches? D: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[ITA] Kr1gsG4ldr Players 194 posts 13,285 battles Report post #10 Posted July 16, 2021 1 ora fa, Varian_Dorn ha scritto: Coop has its merits That said, I can't detect any more or less "stupidity" on the bots than before. Which means they're still rather... direct... in their approach and still pull questionable maneuvers at times. This also makes it more embarrassing to actually lose to them ^^ What can I say, it makes me strange to be the only one to whom strange things are happening that did not happen before, or rather, before the update they were less frequent than now and that's why I opened the topic, to see if even at the others are happening these strange things and for give some voice at some complaints i saw in some chat about this. Just this morning I was on the Two Brothers map, it happened that 2 battleships got stuck behind the island in the upper north, in fact two ships were missing and they were those, we just needed to win on points, in the face of directly! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[FLASH] DirtyHeddy Players 1,138 posts 27,786 battles Report post #11 Posted July 16, 2021 2 hours ago, Varian_Dorn said: Coop has its merits That said, I can't detect any more or less "stupidity" on the bots than before. Which means they're still rather... direct... in their approach and still pull questionable maneuvers at times. This also makes it more embarrassing to actually lose to them ^^ I agree so far, but there is something different with the bots. They do not all come Yolo down the map. They partially appear to be unoriented, e.g. slow down to full stop without observable reason - in open waters. Maybe the subs are already there, and we don't know but the bots know ... :-) And they run more often into each other ... or into islands. I had a game recently where not the one usual :Dumbot: got stuck, but several of them on different islands ... THAT was new ... So if WG would state they haven't changed a bit on the bots they presumably lie ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NECRO] Deckeru_Maiku Beta Tester 6,636 posts 24,864 battles Report post #12 Posted July 16, 2021 3 hours ago, Figment said: I nearly saw it happen once. I had killed 4 as a DD, got hydroed and died to fire as I had just used repair at low hp, but figured the remaining players would finish of the rest with ease. Imagine my horror when they go and get Soyuzed in the citadel one by one. Luckily one survived at 1500ish hp. Saving my 100% rating in Coop. I mean seriously, people lose these matches? D: Just play more... my CoOp winrate was also (close to) 100% - but then there are battles that nobody can carry, not even against bots... so now it's only 99.23% (meaning I lost ~25 of 3374 battles... So just play more and the 100% will vanish.. sooner or later... 53 minutes ago, DirtyHeddy said: So if WG would state they haven't changed a bit on the bots they presumably lie ... But WG wrote in the patch notes update notes that they upgraded the bots... to make them better, stronger, faster... of course they probably lack the six millions $ to make it work... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[B-N-Z] bratisla_boy Players 449 posts 6,567 battles Report post #13 Posted July 16, 2021 Le 15/07/2021 à 13:17, LordInvader98k a dit : The new changes that have been made to the bots to avoid incoming torpedoes I may have encountered a bug then, because I just played a coop game with a sea mine Sims (51 knots torps) and I saw a bot Sims and two bots cruisers litteraly going straight into my torps, not even bothering to do a last ditch manoeuver (although they could have avoided it). I put the replay here, I wonder if I should send it to support - although the fact I'm using mods will make the ticket dismissed ... 20210716_230317_PASD029-Sims-1941_41_Conquest.wowsreplay Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NWP] Bear__Necessities Players 5,291 posts 15,379 battles Report post #14 Posted July 17, 2021 I assume bots jus match the average player... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[KKDR] webaake Players 302 posts Report post #15 Posted July 17, 2021 The bots ARE slower, no doubt about it. And they seem to beach as often as before. WG has to rewrite this next update. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NECRO] MementoMori_6030 [NECRO] Players 6,381 posts Report post #16 Posted July 17, 2021 The most annoying thing is that the bots dodge torps with divine skill (also called cheating), and with the aiming bug it becomes a quite futile endeavour to use torps in operations if you are not suicidally close. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[KOKOS] DanSilverwing Players 1,193 posts 19,517 battles Report post #17 Posted July 17, 2021 Every change to appease the BB mafia just made the game worse. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[VILSE] Thanks_for_all_the_fish Players 75 posts 18,799 battles Report post #18 Posted July 17, 2021 Agree with the OP. Because yes, the bots are definately dumber than before. I read the patchnotes and thought happy thoughts...finally some attention to coop, however little. Maybe now we'd get rid of the beaching bots, and the thankfully rather rare instance where they went the same spot and just stayed there for 10 mins changing from forward to reverse every 20 seconds until one of them could progress. And that they'd start using speed to avoid torps was also welcome....then. Because I was SO wrong. First off, they seem MUCH slower now. I mean, as if they can't use full speed anymore. They seem to actively SEEK out eachother now, which ofcourse makes them move even slower as they try to not actually collide. And even this fails, I've seen bots push eachother today... As for beaching...well, the pushing I just mentioned was one bot pushing another into an island. And then the one doing the pushing also beached. They used to be able to navigate slightly. Now they might as well just stay still, because any attempt they do fails. And I dearly hope all this isn't happening in scenario as well... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BMF] DJ_7 Players 21 posts 23,008 battles Report post #19 Posted July 17, 2021 22 horas antes, Deckeru_Maiku dijo: Just play more... my CoOp winrate was also (close to) 100% - but then there are battles that nobody can carry, not even against bots... so now it's only 99.23% (meaning I lost ~25 of 3374 battles... So just play more and the 100% will vanish.. sooner or later... But WG wrote in the patch notes update notes that they upgraded the bots... to make them better, stronger, faster... of course they probably lack the six millions $ to make it work... I imagine the next upgrade in the same direction could be disabling bot artillery. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TACHA] HansRoaming Players 409 posts 9,842 battles Report post #20 Posted July 18, 2021 Their aim seems to be wonky these days where they used to be spot on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-TPF-] invicta2012 Players 6,382 posts 26,855 battles Report post #21 Posted July 18, 2021 They should probably revert the change. If you have an RN DD you can fire single torps and make them all beach themselves. It's comedically bad. And their aim is way off - it's like they can't compensate for speed changes any more, but are using a fixed value. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[RNBCD] The_White_Whale Players 283 posts 3,035 battles Report post #22 Posted July 18, 2021 Played a couple of coop games last night to grind some campaign missions, the bots moved forward a bit, clustered together in their home cap and never moved again. The cruisers even stopped shooting, although they did still attempt to torp anyone who strayed into their torpedo range. I presume that WG have disabled the AI in order to save a bit of money on the server costs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[KKDR] webaake Players 302 posts Report post #23 Posted July 18, 2021 After further playing it's really obviuos - the Bots are more stupid and aims worse than before. Maybe it's because of an influx of new players during summer break from school? WG has certainely made the Co-op game easier for new players anyway. And no team killing either? What's up with this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[G-O-M] Aethervoxx Players 2,597 posts 13,191 battles Report post #24 Posted August 2, 2021 I saw a battle where the W side had Bots that sank 6 enemy (my team) but my side the Bots could only manage 3 sinkings. So, yes, some Bots are dumber than others. Plus, some Bots can now sink up to 3 enemy (maybe more, who knows?) and these enemy sinkings are not all Bot players. That's the scary part. So, OP, I have to disagree with your contention that Bots are now 'more dumb than before'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BAD-F] Sir_Grzegorz Beta Tester 798 posts 16,103 battles Report post #25 Posted August 2, 2021 I would say the bots are now not eager to die first. I do not play much co-op but I have seen bots reversing in spawn. That leads to cases in almost each battle that there was one bot that had to be chased, making games longer and annoying. Previously you only needed to chase the CV, now it can by any bot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
