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Oberost

Moving from Co-op to Random Battles?

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Hi all,

 

So here is the question: At what tier should I begin to think about leaving the safe waters of Co-op games and start swimming between the sharks of Random battles?

Right now I'm at T6 of Japanese CA line and also at T4 of Japanese BB line, and I feel that I'm not going to learn much more fighting against bots, but I'm a bit afraid of getting severely spanked the moment I get into a Random battle...

 

Any piece of advice, please?

 

Thanks in advance.

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Quality Poster, In AlfaTesters
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Personally, I would say get into randoms sooner rather than later. You might start developing some bad habits or expectations from co-op if you do intend to do randoms.

 

You might get slapped, it happens to the best occasionally, if you play either your cruisers or BBs then just play with care, real players are not as gung-ho as bots are and will certainly punish overextending or showing broadsides and make the most of their own advantages, like outspotting you with ships with better concealment and then being shot at by ships with longer range, bots dont typically care for these things. It won't be necessary for you to go charging anywhere, so just take your time. There are a lot of mechanics and other intricacies to familiarise yourself with in the future (be sure to check the wiki), so sometimes not everything will make sense, but you learn as you go.

 

If you prefer, you can also go back down to a lower tier, perhaps with a new line (you will advance much quicker via randoms than you did in coop), I think playing tiers 3-5 are quite good for getting acquainted with how battles generally play out.

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[VIBES]
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I wouldn't try anything past T6, in fact I remember practicing a lot with Wyoming, Izyaslav, Sampson and Fuso before moving on.

The Kuma is also nice, as are Pensacola, Orion, Ryujo, Leander...

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My tuppence worth is to get into Randoms and spend a while at Tiers 4-6 exploring the different lines to see what suits you in a 'versus real people' environment. Have fun and don't let the CVs get you down.

 

 

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T4-5 is the best moment, T6 you're thrown into T8, in which there veterans playing on things like Lenin or Massachusetts. Not best idea to learn how to play in randoms while being smacked hard by such more experienced players. 

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[CATS]
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You are still under beginner protection until Tier IV and 200 battles.

That makes Randoms a bit easier. Use your remaining battles on Tier IV to test it out.

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4 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

You are still under beginner protection until Tier IV and 200 battles.

That makes Randoms a bit easier. Use your remaining battles on Tier IV to test it out.

Agree, and going by recent experience tier IV seems to be the new sweet spot of the game anyway. So much has changed since the old days...

You'll only see opponents up to tier V, and the ship characteristics from IV to V are not that much different. So it's manageable.

 

Going back to the original question: just experiment a little and see how it feels - and if you are enjoying it. There is no point forcing yourself into random battles and going on a losing spree. That's no fun for anyone. And there is no point in playing higher tiers if you are not enjoying it. There is no endgame, prize or anything for anyone going up the tech tree, and the higher you go, the more difficult and expensive (regards in-game silver) it gets.

 

One of the advantages of this game architecture is that you can make this game whatever you want it to be for you. If you are highly competitive and like high winrates, it works for you. If you are not and just like to use it as a virtual model cabinet, it works for you, too. And anything in between.

 

As long as you are enjoying yourself. Have fun!

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Thanks to all of you for your kind answers.

 

I think I will try first with my T4 BB in randoms and see what happens. If I manage not to lose too often then I'll continue with the T5 BB and after that I'll try with the T6 CA.

 

Some of you have suggested to try other lines, but giving the fact that in-game money is scarce (even with premium account. Maybe in randoms I'll earn more silver, who knows...) I 'm going to keep playing with my two Japanese lines and see how it goes...

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35 minutes ago, Oberost said:

Thanks to all of you for your kind answers.

 

I think I will try first with my T4 BB in randoms and see what happens. If I manage not to lose too often then I'll continue with the T5 BB and after that I'll try with the T6 CA.

 

Some of you have suggested to try other lines, but giving the fact that in-game money is scarce (even with premium account. Maybe in randoms I'll earn more silver, who knows...) I 'm going to keep playing with my two Japanese lines and see how it goes...

Randoms are way more profitable exp and credits wise, Coop is basically meant to be unsustainable past tier 6-7

 

In terms of credits, "break even" point is tier 7-8 without premium in Randoms. If you consistently play well, then you can be mildly profitable even in T10. Even more so with premium account and/or premium paints on T10 vessels.

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14 hours ago, Oberost said:

At what tier should I begin to think about leaving the safe waters of Co-op games and start swimming between the sharks of Random battles?

Hi! Although a lot of people already answered, I can't help but join in. The answer is: ASAP. You'll get a better understanding of "what's what" when playing against other players.

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Am 7.7.2021 um 13:38, Oberost sagte:

[...]giving the fact that in-game money is scarce[...]

That is most definitely due to coop, from my own experience without premium it is already difficult to make a profit at T4 while playing coop, and with higher tiers that only gets worse. And while playing random battles doesn't mean you'll suddenly swim in silver, if you find a decent T5 or T6 you're already through with and that you like to play in randoms every once in a while (for example Furutaka or Kongo) that can finance quite a bit of trying out in low-tier. And since EXP progression is also way faster in randoms it isn't even that much of a time investment to play a new line up to T4 or T5 and see whether you like it. And playing randoms maybe you'll even be abe to save up some coal and get yourself a T5 or T6 premium from the armory, that will alleviate silver problems even further.

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On 7/6/2021 at 6:26 PM, Oberost said:

Any piece of advice, please?

Get into Randoms as early as you can; as @ColonelPete mentions, you get protected MM early on - this means you'll mostly face bots anyway, but get better rewards due to being in Random mode.

 

On 7/7/2021 at 7:38 AM, Oberost said:

in-game money is scarce

You'll make a lot more silver in Randoms (the rewards in Coop are gimped, mainly because it's easier), as mentioned previously, but it's also worth reviewing what the key reward drivers in the game are. The short version is damage, *but* it's not just lots of damage, but rather relative damage.

 

What this means in practical terms is that doing 1,000 hp of damage to something with a low hp pool like a DD will be far better rewarded than doing exactly the same amount of damage to something bigger like a BB. Unless the DD is an idiot, he'll probably be harder to hit (smaller target, and he'll dodge as soon as he realises you're taking an interest), but even so he's still worth pounding.

It's worth remembering this as it ties in to better target selection too: generally, the order you want to pulverise the opposition is (all things being equal) DDs first, then radar cruisers, then other cruisers, and only then the fatties; do this, and you're more likely to win (yay!), and you'll generally be better rewarded at the end of the battle.

 

BTW if you haven't found it yet, the economy section in the wiki gives more detailed info on how rewards are calculated: https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Economy

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Its as much about getting a good captain  You need min 10 points on a captain to get concealment expert ..That makes the game easier to play 

 

I love the JAP T5   BB and CA  ...i could play them for 1000 battles !!

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On 7/7/2021 at 12:26 AM, Oberost said:

Hi all,

 

So here is the question: At what tier should I begin to think about leaving the safe waters of Co-op games and start swimming between the sharks of Random battles?

Right now I'm at T6 of Japanese CA line and also at T4 of Japanese BB line, and I feel that I'm not going to learn much more fighting against bots, but I'm a bit afraid of getting severely spanked the moment I get into a Random battle...

 

Any piece of advice, please?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

I first tried Randoms in T4, after I got the Kuma. To be honest, being one of the most praised ships in T4, I thought the ship will compensate my lack of experience (like she will play for me or something :))) ). I was just soooo wrong. I switched back to coop after getting my axx kicked in like two dozens of battles where I was mostly dying after 2-3 minutes (well, in my defense I will mention that I was coming from the T3 St.Louis - there's a huge difference in the play-style of the two).

 

I tried again after I reached T7. Now, having more experience with many different ships from different nations, I was able to survive better and sometimes even have some remarkable performances (rarely, but happened...) :Smile_glasses:

I still sometimes (many times) die like a sucker, usually took by surprise and discovered by ships that have a radar at higher tiers (I don't have any of those yet, don't know the mechanics. Maybe I'll check on youtube... some day).

 

What I want to tell you, because you were complaining about the credits you gather in Coop... the average earnings in Random is at least 4 times bigger than in Coop, and I don't mean only about the credits, but the XP and freeXP as well. I can say I'd never go back to Coop again, unless required by some mission.

I'm not even waiting to upgrade a new ship in Coop, I simply take it to Randoms and I upgrade it in a handful of battles.

 

In conclusion, move to Randoms asap, but at the beginning expect to be obliterated at the slightest mistake and don't be discouraged if that happens, because it will happen! It's normal. Good luck!

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37 minutos antes, SmokinSerj dijo:

 

I first tried Randoms in T4, after I got the Kuma. To be honest, being one of the most praised ships in T4, I thought the ship will compensate my lack of experience (like she will play for me or something :))) ). I was just soooo wrong. I switched back to coop after getting my axx kicked in like two dozens of battles where I was mostly dying after 2-3 minutes (well, in my defense I will mention that I was coming from the T3 St.Louis - there's a huge difference in the play-style of the two).

 

I tried again after I reached T7. Now, having more experience with many different ships from different nations, I was able to survive better and sometimes even have some remarkable performances (rarely, but happened...) :Smile_glasses:

I still sometimes (many times) die like a sucker, usually took by surprise and discovered by ships that have a radar at higher tiers (I don't have any of those yet, don't know the mechanics. Maybe I'll check on youtube... some day).

 

What I want to tell you, because you were complaining about the credits you gather in Coop... the average earnings in Random is at least 4 times bigger than in Coop, and I don't mean only about the credits, but the XP and freeXP as well. I can say I'd never go back to Coop again, unless required by some mission.

I'm not even waiting to upgrade a new ship in Coop, I simply take it to Randoms and I upgrade it in a handful of battles.

 

In conclusion, move to Randoms asap, but at the beginning expect to be obliterated at the slightest mistake and don't be discouraged if that happens, because it will happen! It's normal. Good luck!

Thanks for the advice.

 

I did like all the previous posters told me to do and moved to random. The results are not bad, I managed to mantain a 50% WR with (I think) a decent performance in most battles, and of course my average income grew up a lot (both credits and XP).

 

BTW, I don't upgrade my ships playing them, I just use free XP to research modules to not be a burden for my team (more than I am right now...). I know than I can use free XP to buy ships, but right now I prefer to go fully equiped to battle...

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19 minutes ago, Oberost said:

I don't upgrade my ships playing them, I just use free XP to research modules to not be a burden for my team

Very kind of you to think like that. :Smile_honoring:

 

(Lesson learned)

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