Tin foiled hat ft. Jingles, and a topic I wanna discuss about

[totally_potato]

How about space ships in the game.

Would be pretty nice to have some of em. Perfectly russian engineered...........Yeah sry not happening

Dumb crap aside

 

Jingles posted a vid a few days ago 

so I reposted this vid and marked the time at which this discussion starts. So basically he and the trashkent player he featured are saying that CVs rockets really nuked DDs (and it really did), and less and less DDs were there. That took out one of the roles of cruisers. And more and more BBs started appearing, which lead to cruisers players getting demoralised to play. Add to that the CVs basically ignoring AA of many cruisers (including DM). So it was pretty much 5 BBs, 1 CV, and a couple of DDs. The DDs size increased a bit becoz BBs, and a few cruisers came back and got nuked anyway. So it basically was a shitshow. Now the rocket change occurred and more and more DDs are now coming. Since apart from some RNG based HE bombs, the DDs pretty much were safe from dmg from CV (well ofc not completely, but far less than before where it got butchered). Becoz of so many DDs, more and more cruisers are coming. Another reason for cruisers coming was becoz BBs significantly decreased. I can't label that as CAP. I play on NA, and I have see max 3 BBs per team with a crap ton of DDs and cruisers. So number of DDs were in check coz cruisers, and number of cruisers in check coz there a few BBs hanging around, and there now DDs that hard counter overextending cruisers (The new German line, druid, T8-10 FR DDs). So less boring camping static gameplay, as far as my experience in these last few days tell. And well subs are coming to the game so the Rocket change was for that probably. 

 

So my opinion is that, it feels kind of better than before. Based on the last few days. Am glad jingled and Trashkent guy pointed that out. So what's your opinion regarding all of this (No buff CV crybabies allowed, jk everyone is allowed LUL). Would be interesting to hear everyone's take on this. And for context, I have linked the vid above to exactly when the discussion starts.

[lovelacebeer]

Games do certainly seem more active and engaging since the changes to CV rocket squadrons (considerably less camping), it’s a nice improvement from my perspective as a surface ship player.

 

However I tend to agree with Jingles WG only did this change in anticipation of subs and not because of any desire to make things actually fun. 

[ColonelPete]

We had Space Ships in the game. Sometimes you can even get the camos.

 

BB numbers increased long before the CV became a stronger counter for DD.

And DD numbers went up, long before the rockets were changed.

 

Lack of cruisers is caused by the strength of BB. Add a year of mediocre cruiser releases and you get bad cruisers numbers.

 

Spoiler

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20210703/eu_week/average_class_u.html

 

[Deckeru_Maiku]

Or just say:

 

Without rockets the number of CVs got lower, while all other classes returned to the way of eternal changes we had since the game started, with only one fix point: there will always be too many BBs in the queue...

[159Hunter]

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

Add a year of mediocre cruiser releases and you get bad cruisers numbers.

Which WG aims to fix with gimmicky Dutch cruisers

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, 159Hunter said:

Which WG aims to fix with gimmicky Dutch cruisers

Which would be better and more interesting without the Gimmick.

[SV_Kompresor]

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

Which would be better and more interesting without the Gimmick.

Agreed

[159Hunter]

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

Which would be better and more interesting without the Gimmick.

 

Just now, SV_Kompresor said:

Agreed

Which is why neither of you will ever get a job in WG dev team 

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, 159Hunter said:

 

Which is why neither of you will ever get a job in WG dev team 

Lucky me

 

I would probably get a depression after a month.

[thiextar]

2 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Which would be better and more interesting without the Gimmick.

You say this, but without some kind of specialty / gimmick, she would just be a playstyle clone of something we already have and thus utterly pointless.

 

I agree that this specific gimmick seems a bit stupid, but i dont get this whole idea that gimmicks are bad, without gimmicks, we really cant have many ships at all before it becomes pointless adding new ones, cause theyd all have the same playstyle.

 

[ColonelPete]

5 hours ago, thiextar said:

You say this, but without some kind of specialty / gimmick, she would just be a playstyle clone of something we already have and thus utterly pointless.

 

I agree that this specific gimmick seems a bit stupid, but i dont get this whole idea that gimmicks are bad, without gimmicks, we really cant have many ships at all before it becomes pointless adding new ones, cause theyd all have the same playstyle.

 

Ships play different because of the combination of speed, armor layout, firing angles and guns. The way guns works depends on velocity, rate of fire, shell type and weight.

The Dutch line will have a mixture of cruiser types that will bring different playstyles in one line.

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

Vor 10 Stunden, Deckeru_Maiku sagte:

there will always be too many BBs in the queue...

Muh Benham sez there can never be too many BBs in the queue.

Only too many CVs.

[totally_potato]

2 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Ships play different because of the combination of speed, armor layout, firing angles and guns. The way guns works depends on velocity, rate of fire, shell type and weight.

The Dutch line will have a mixture of cruiser types that will bring different playstyles in one line.

there are only so many ships that will follow that. Lets take away all the gimmicks from DM and look at the base ship. Same with Hindi. Then why play DM over Hindi. 

 

There are a fair amount of combos. But gimmicks are required to a) support the ship in its intended role, b) to make it different. If gimmicks were never a thing, and your proposal of just different setup of guns, speed, etc was put up, this game would be over, 2 years ago. Gimmicks are completely fine. Overabundance of them are not, but gimmicks are necessary to make a ship/nation feel different. 

[Hugh_Ruka]

15 minutes ago, totally_potato said:

there are only so many ships that will follow that. Lets take away all the gimmicks from DM and look at the base ship. Same with Hindi. Then why play DM over Hindi. 

 

There are a fair amount of combos. But gimmicks are required to a) support the ship in its intended role, b) to make it different. If gimmicks were never a thing, and your proposal of just different setup of guns, speed, etc was put up, this game would be over, 2 years ago. Gimmicks are completely fine. Overabundance of them are not, but gimmicks are necessary to make a ship/nation feel different. 

actually just compare the Tashkent to the Khabarovsk ... they play differently yet the difference is not the gimmicks but core ship parameters ....

 

Or compare the Slava to the Yamato ...

[ColonelPete]

19 minutes ago, totally_potato said:

there are only so many ships that will follow that. Lets take away all the gimmicks from DM and look at the base ship. Same with Hindi. Then why play DM over Hindi. 

 

There are a fair amount of combos. But gimmicks are required to a) support the ship in its intended role, b) to make it different. If gimmicks were never a thing, and your proposal of just different setup of guns, speed, etc was put up, this game would be over, 2 years ago. Gimmicks are completely fine. Overabundance of them are not, but gimmicks are necessary to make a ship/nation feel different. 

Even without consumables Hindi and DM play differently.

Shell arcs and AP performance make sure of that.

[159Hunter]

1 hour ago, totally_potato said:

Lets take away all the gimmicks from DM and look at the base ship. Same with Hindi. Then why play DM over Hindi. 

And this shows you know nothing about these two cruisers...

[SodaBubbles]

13 hours ago, lovelacebeer said:

Games do certainly seem more active and engaging since the changes to CV rocket squadrons (considerably less camping), it’s a nice improvement from my perspective as a surface ship player.

 

However I tend to agree with Jingles WG only did this change in anticipation of subs and not because of any desire to make things actually fun. 

I agree. It must have caused heartbreaking for the devs to nerf their beloved CVs. But games have significantly improved. I might actually go back to playing high tier DD again. 

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

So it would seem that the tiny change of making DDs a little harder to hit with rockets, has dropped the CV population so drastically that it can actually be fun to take out a Tier VIII DD once more.

 

Even on the NA server.

Just had about a half a dozen Asashio and Harekaze games in a row with no fun police arriving on the scene, believe it or not. And the current crop of BBabies doesn't seem to know what an Asashio even is. I just wish I coud take it into Grend Bettles. Although strangely that's where the CV population seems to be spiking these days, probably in hopes of farming BBs when they feel they can't pull the wings off any other flies any more.

 

Could it be that there is now a very brief window of minimal BS in the game until the subs arrive?

 

Edit: I should not have jinxed it cause literally the second after posting this, I tried my luck on the EU server and promptly got into a 2.5-CV battle there.

Zitat

Even though luckily the enemy CVs were even specialler than the ones on my own team.

 

[totally_potato]

3 hours ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

actually just compare the Tashkent to the Khabarovsk ... they play differently yet the difference is not the gimmicks but core ship parameters ....

 

Or compare the Slava to the Yamato ...

yeah like Tashkent has more range for some reason, and one less gun. But that's leveling up. Their playstyle is still the same. Do some jackass farming, handle a potato DD, don't cry about it. That's basically what they do. 

 

Slava to Yamato? Slava does have a gimmick. Some artificial dispersion formula that makes no sense, while Yamato accuracy in modern WoWs is standard with good sigma. It doesn't rely on some special dispersion curve that encourages dispersion.

[MrWastee]

@totally_potato, while others already did elaborate on why gimmicks rather are an addition of desperation gameplaywise, i just gonna add the k.i.s.s. princip... it works, it basically makes systems effective. gimmicks are only against the imagined boredom of players, as well as bait em for gaining power over others (players/gimmicks/playstyles).

essentially, given the framing of the game, arcade is the only reason for gimmicks. the setting itself absolutely is not imo.... in doubt most of these ships went on same foot. this game started from a good balancing ground, just to endanger itselves balancing base further on and on, since at least addition of german hydro.

 

the more gimmicks, the harder to balance. while balance is a myth anyway in doubt, imbalance is what generates revenue! they just need to be cautious to keep this intentioned imbalance within a ceratin frame/threshhold. as soon as it becomes obvious players will rage, while this probability probably gets raised with every new addition. or, in other words, becomes more likely with every new addition, coz the dance on the razors edge they perform becomes harder and harder.

[Animalul2012]

DD numbers increased because the thunder players quited after not being able to shot from 28km and now they said"screw it I am gonna play those dirty dds mhhhhh I should get shimakaze or no better, halland I can spam undodgeable torpedoes with 15km range every 80 seconds. 

As for the cruisers:well the high cruisers are not weak,they just get punished way easier than a battleship(some of them at least) A broadside venezia is most likely going to explode, a supercruiser lacks either the battleship overmatching cappabilites and tankiness, while being even more vulnerable to fires.

Lower tier cruisers are impossible mode, no heals,often having bad detection,mediocre guns,large citadels,made out of chesse, there are some exceptions like belfast but playing the general cruisers vs a bb or even some dds....well its like trying to kill that guy in the video, not gonna happen anytime soon:

 

[totally_potato]

2 hours ago, MrWastee said:

@totally_potato, while others already did elaborate on why gimmicks rather are an addition of desperation gameplaywise, i just gonna add the k.i.s.s. princip... it works, it basically makes systems effective. gimmicks are only against the imagined boredom of players, as well as bait em for gaining power over others (players/gimmicks/playstyles).

essentially, given the framing of the game, arcade is the only reason for gimmicks. the setting itself absolutely is not imo.... in doubt most of these ships went on same foot. this game started from a good balancing ground, just to endanger itselves balancing base further on and on, since at least addition of german hydro.

 

the more gimmicks, the harder to balance. while balance is a myth anyway in doubt, imbalance is what generates revenue! they just need to be cautious to keep this intentioned imbalance within a ceratin frame/threshhold. as soon as it becomes obvious players will rage, while this probability probably gets raised with every new addition. or, in other words, becomes more likely with every new addition, coz the dance on the razors edge they perform becomes harder and harder.

ok. Understandable

[totally_potato]

Anyway, can we discuss about the topic given above. Gimmicks are completely unrelated here

Kindy open a different topic for that

[bakmaita]

1 hour ago, Animalul2012 said:

DD numbers increased because the thunder players quited after not being able to shot from 28km and now they said"screw it I am gonna play those dirty dds mhhhhh I should get shimakaze or no better, halland I can spam undodgeable torpedoes with 15km range every 80 seconds. 

As for the cruisers:well the high cruisers are not weak,they just get punished way easier than a battleship(some of them at least) A broadside venezia is most likely going to explode, a supercruiser lacks either the battleship overmatching cappabilites and tankiness, while being even more vulnerable to fires.

Lower tier cruisers are impossible mode, no heals,often having bad detection,mediocre guns,large citadels,made out of chesse, there are some exceptions like belfast but playing the general cruisers vs a bb or even some dds....well its like trying to kill that guy in the video, not gonna happen anytime soon:

-snip-

Please don't link that here, IDC if it is old or posted in humorous way, you are feeding views to a scumbag this way.

[Animalul2012]

12 minutes ago, bakmaita said:

Please don't link that here, IDC if it is old or posted in humorous way, you are feeding views to a scumbag this way.

Scumbag really? Are you kidding me