Ranked Battles MUST take individual performance into account as well

[DoggyJoe]

Hello everyone.
I have been focusing on PvP recently and I have noticed that (at least in Bronze) most of the people playing are quite bad.
In most cases, people that enter PvP are completely clueless, absolutely not interested in TeamWork (game doesn't even encourage it) and almost always play as this is a 100% SinglePlayer game.

Since we cannot team up with friends or our own teams, devs MUST look into individual performance as well !

- Some other games such as CSGO do this and it is great/fair (rare to rankup on a lose, but it did happen to me personally once and it felt great !)
I will attach a SS of my recent game as an example. When I lose these games, it feels as if I got cheated in some way :/

Love this game tho, it just needs some important upgrades!

[Aragathor]

Nothing will change, just enjoy the memes.

 

Spoiler

 

[159Hunter]

And how sgould they do this? 

Btw, your XP is your individual performance result of that match...

[Beastofwar]

In Bronze league randoms campers are still learning their usual behaviour does not work in small maps with lots of islands and  only 7 enemies. But i noticed after 3 sprints remaining in silver league these players still reached ( lower ) silver league too, leanring nothing at all.

 

DD, Cruisers and CV in silver league are ususally working together quite nice. The big oofing idiots are really camper-type BB there. But that is really about the player in it, not the ships.

 

CQC type BB and Cruisers usually do very well in ranked though. It is the one PvP mode you can enjoy their characteristics ( secondaries and torpedoes ) Beacuse of the small maps everything is closer and you should fight closer. There are also more islands then is usual in randoms. These are supposed to be used to agressively flank, encircle or surprise enemies at very short ranges. They work against long range camping by providing ample cover.

 

In ranked holding caps is everything.

 

 

 

 

[159Hunter]

7 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

There are also more islands then is usual in randoms. 

Right. Exactly the same maps are used in randoms and ranked but those in ranked have more islands ...

 

OP, this is just one blatant stupidity posted by BoW. I suggest you ignore him alltogether if you want to learn something about this game.

[principat121]

Fun Fact:

 

IF Wargaming would take into accout the individual performance YOU would eventually end up with players like this:

Am 27.6.2021 um 17:57, DoggyJoe sagte:

people that enter PvP are completely clueless, absolutely not interested in TeamWork

 

Why, you might ask! 

edit

 

 

 

Please restrain from blaming others, when your very own game performance is lacking all the stuff you demand from others.

Self awareness!

[Wulf_Ace]

43 minutes ago, DoggyJoe said:

Hello everyone.
I have been focusing on PvP recently and I have noticed that (at least in Bronze) most of the people playing are quite bad.
 

So you ar3 playing in lowest league and complaining? have you thought of ranking out to silver and gold, maybe you would find better teammates. Its not the last league for no reason.

also 60k damage is nothing special also.

[Nibenay78]

38 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 The big oofing idiots are really camper-type BB there.

<snip>

CQC type BB and Cruisers usually do very well in ranked though. It is the one PvP mode you can enjoy their characteristics ( secondaries and torpedoes ) Beacuse of the small maps everything is closer and you should fight closer. There are also more islands then is usual in randoms. These are supposed to be used to agressively flank, encircle or surprise enemies at very short ranges. They work against long range camping by providing ample cover.

 

In ranked holding caps is everything.

I camped like a champ behind islands in non-CQC BB! seems to work okay.

 

[Bear__Necessities]

3 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

I camped like a champ behind islands in non-CQC BB! seems to work okay.

 

Are you telling me, BoW, THE expert of all ranked experts is wrong??

 

I'm honestly so shocked.....

 

[Nibenay78]

38 minutes ago, Bear__Necessities said:

Are you telling me, BoW, THE expert of all ranked experts is wrong??

 

I'm honestly so shocked.....

 

He should come bomb me. After all I am hugging an island almost every game there. Wonder why I do that in a BB.

[Kr1gsG4ldr]

51 minuti fa, Wulf_Ace ha scritto:

60k damage is nothing special also.

For a Graf Spee and her wonky dispersion yes.

Consider even that in these ranked she's bottom tier.

[lameoll]

its not that damage is important tho  thats not an issue here.

 

The issue is he clearly cant carry himself let alone his teammates.

 

and hes complaining that he needs better teammates.

[Miragetank90]

Ranked takes individual performance into account already in a way, through the star saving mechanic.

 

Or did I misunderstand what you meant? 

[DoggyJoe]

For all of you elitists here - I am not complaining.
If I suck, then I suck and I should be put with people which suck, because I SUCK and not because it is an extremely simplistic MM design.

At the start of every match I say Hi and ask the Team what should we do.

In 9/10 matches NO ONE responds and proceeds to die too early while talking trash to the team.

[lameoll]

10 minutes ago, DoggyJoe said:

For all of you elitists here - I am not complaining.
If I suck, then I suck and I should be put with people which suck, because I SUCK and not because it is an extremely simplistic MM design.

At the start of every match I say Hi and ask the Team what should we do.

In 9/10 matches NO ONE responds and proceeds to die too early while talking trash to the team.

there is nothing elitist about this.

 

and im not saying you where complaining.( actualy i did) 

But its just a simple fact that bronze usualy has the worst players.

But it still has the more easy ships to solo carry in tho.

the only thing u can do is look at your own gameplay  and improve on that.

as if WG will actualy implement what u want. u will still be with the same kind of players in a team and nothing will change for u.

[Hugh_Ruka]

2 hours ago, DoggyJoe said:

Hello everyone.
I have been focusing on PvP recently and I have noticed that (at least in Bronze) most of the people playing are quite bad.
In most cases, people that enter PvP are completely clueless, absolutely not interested in TeamWork (game doesn't even encourage it) and almost always play as this is a 100% SinglePlayer game.

Since we cannot team up with friends or our own teams, devs MUST look into individual performance as well !

- Some other games such as CSGO do this and it is great/fair (rare to rankup on a lose, but it did happen to me personally once and it felt great !)
I will attach a SS of my recent game as an example. When I lose these games, it feels as if I got cheated in some way :/

Love this game tho, it just needs some important upgrades!

Care to outline the solution as well ? How do you expect the evaluation of individual performance to work ? And how is it used ?

[GarrusBrutus]

41 minutes ago, DoggyJoe said:

At the start of every match I say Hi and ask the Team what should we do.

In 9/10 matches NO ONE responds and proceeds to die too early while talking trash to the team.

You ask the players in bronze "what the team should do"? At some point it is good to take charge yourself and try to lead the team. You dont need to be superunicum to be a leader.

 

[Bear__Necessities]

39 minutes ago, lameoll said:

there is nothing elitist about this.

 

and im not saying you where complaining.( actualy i did) 

But its just a simple fact that bronze usualy has the worst players.

But it still has the more easy ships to solo carry in tho.

the only thing u can do is look at your own gameplay  and improve on that.

as if WG will actualy implement what u want. u will still be with the same kind of players in a team and nothing will change for u.

Upload a replay or 2 and ask for advice. We'd all happily help in that regard. 

[Verblonde]

4 hours ago, DoggyJoe said:

For all of you elitists here - I am not complaining.
If I suck, then I suck and I should be put with people which suck, because I SUCK and not because it is an extremely simplistic MM design.

The way Ranked works, the different leagues are - kind of - streams by a mixture of competence and persistence i.e. there are two ways to get to the next league: be good, or be very persistent. For the most part, after a few sprints have been completed (like now) the league that people are playing in more or less reflects their approximate skill level. So, by now, if you're in Bronze most people around you are of a vaguely similar standard to you.

 

Of course, there are some exceptions (some better players deliberately stay in lower leagues because they find the aggravation to reward ratio in higher leagues to not be worth it, and there are a few blithering idiots who are playing way too high, but got there by a mixture of luck and sheer persistence.

 

So, knowing this, what do you do about it?

• My first tip is to try and care less about winning (it'll help your blood pressure); whilst I don't advocate not trying, there are some games where you are Doomed regardless - try and master being sanguine about this.
• The second suggestion is to play ships that tend to be more influential in the small-team, small-map mode of Ranked; if you play ships which have lower levels of influence, you are more at the mercy of your team-mates. Play things that have greater influence and - if your skill level is sufficient - you have a greater chance of winning (this tends to mean DDs that are good DD-hunters and/or are good at the vision game, or radar cruisers, in particular).
• The third suggestion is to focus on getting as good as you can with a small number of suitable ships; this may take a while, so you are taking the long view here.

Have a look at this graph:

 

 

This is something that is often seen in the game; people push far too hard and too fast for T10. There are a few reasons this is a bad idea in general, including that you don't have time to pick up the necessary skill-set at the lower tiers before venturing higher, you don't have time to develop good enough captains, and so on.

 

In the specific case of Bronze Ranked, it features T6 and T7 ships, many of which you won't have spent long enough getting familiar with in the scenario that the above graph illustrates.

 

IMO the reason you are struggling is not because MM is stupid, but because you haven't spent the necessary time with suitable ships, and you haven't spent enough time learning the ropes sufficiently yet in general. It'll come, but it does take time.

[HystericalAccuracy]

2 hours ago, DoggyJoe said:

At the start of every match I say Hi and ask the Team what should we do.

In 9/10 matches NO ONE responds

I wouldn´t respond either. If someone doesn´t know what to do (what his role/position with his ship is) then he is in the wrong mode or ship. See where your DDs go and follow (or act accordingly). If you have a ship which can operate on its own (Hindi), then you pretty much don´t care what the team does initially, just do your stuff and adjust later. If you are the DD then make up your mind and set a clear course, your (competent) teammates will follow/act accordingly.

 

Because frankly, If someone puts you in a race and after the start-signal you start asking "what should I do?" - you are in the wrong place man.

 

 

Verblonde gave you kind advice but I will re-word it in primitive form: you climbed up the tiers way too fast and you have no business in high tiers or Ranking.

This are your most played ships. Seeing your stats I bet you extinguish (R-key) single fires.

 

 

3 hours ago, DoggyJoe said:

you elitists

you noob   - or is "Achiever" the more fitting term?

 

Knowing when to use DamCon has nothing to do with being "elitist".

Knowing when to use HE or AP has nothing to do with being "elitist".

It is basic understanding which you missed out on because you had to go up as fast as possible.

[GarrusBrutus]

if everyone plays against everyone the rewards are well deserved for whoever achieves the goal. If we seperate players based on skill, wouldn't it be unfair if a low skilled player who only plays against other low skilled players gets the same rewards as his high skilled counterpart? 

 

There is already a safety net for even the worst players: starsaving mechanism. If you cannot progress through bronze with that mechanic, than I'd suggest you go and watch some tutorials. 

[Alteisen]

14 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

You ask the players in bronze "what the team should do"? At some point it is good to take charge yourself and try to lead the team. You dont need to be superunicum to be a leader.

 

In bronze, talking to the team often felt like talking to a brickwall. Being good does help significantly because you can skip the talking part and carry your team to victory or at least die trying.

 

 

[GarrusBrutus]

18 minutes ago, Alteisen said:

In bronze, talking to the team often felt like talking to a brickwall. Being a good does help significantly because you can skip the talking part and carry your team to victory or at least die trying.

Talking to your team in anygamemode apart from clanbattles, is often futile. Especially on EU where only a handful of players seem to understand English. 

 

But I really do not understand the players who type "plan?" at the start of the game. At the start you have zero Intel on the enemy. So every gameplan goes out of the window the second the enemies are spotted. Players who ask what to do often simply commit to the "plan", only to die and blame that one player who responded for his "terrible plan". Yes yes I know, we've all had those games where your entire team pushed a flank and won. Wonderful. But those are very rare. 

 

This goes for the game in general but counts especially for ranked: it isn't that hard to decide what you should do to maximize your utility for the team. For example:

Survival>capping

If I'm in a DD and I spawn left, I go the left flank and vice versa. 

If I'm the only dd I go to the contested cap. 

If my flank is weak, I kite. 

If my flank is strong, I push. 

If I'm in a radar cruiser I position myself so I can radar a cap. 

If I'm in a bb I position myself so I can both tank and get into cover if need be. 

If there is a cv I don't go off by myself but stick with friendlies for AA. 

 

Etc. Etc. Etc. 

 

So next time you ask your team what the plan is: just do your job. 

[Shaka_D]

19 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

And how sgould they do this? 

Btw, your XP is your individual performance result of that match...

Very easy for them to do and hardly any effort either, all they need is to recognise that some players on the losing team play harder and score better than some players on the winning team. A new strategy is needed which punishes a poor performer on the winning team to help prevent many players from repeatedly benefitting from the action of others, but which additonally also acknowledges some players on the losing team are unfairly punished, despite their best efforts.

 

The retention of a star for the best scorer on the losing team is a nice start, but does not quite go far enough and also leads to players playing rather selfishly on their own team to ensure they score max by sitting back and damage farming. I see it all the time, and would vouch this is a common theme in most ranked battles I play. The current system itself is flawed because of it.

[Prophecy82]

18 hours ago, DoggyJoe said:

At the start of every match I say Hi and ask the Team what should we do.

In 9/10 matches NO ONE responds and proceeds to die too early while talking trash to the team.

Welcome to WoWs!