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arquata2019

Forumites giving me tips for Salem

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So, i was reading today a post of @GarrusBrutus , where he said "Quickest way to improve is to let experienced players analyse your replays. That why you get a lot of valuable feedback, tips and tricks." I was thinking of how much useful would be if forumites would comment my replay of my Salem to see and tell me which things i did wrong, if i could've done better, some general tips, it's nice to go support other flank, and so on. So, the replay is here:

My Salem build :

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.d528840c1f7923c8723a6488c0ee2a40.pngimage.thumb.png.7c8f88ae33533d5ee5130ef6e36f2d17.png

Can i learn more in Salem, by forumites analyzing my replay? :D

20210621_163743_PASC710-Salem_50_Gold_harbor.wowsreplay

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Weekend Tester
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Right, first off I don't play Americans, but I can still give you some general advice.

The map awareness is there, reaction to an oncoming threat and use of consumables is all fine, but when it comes to positioning, you are a bit all over the place I think. there were a couple of times where I though: oh no he's gonna die :Smile_teethhappy: 

From my experience of shooting a lot of Americans (don't take this out of context :fish_palm:), you give way to much broadside. The Amagi in mid game or the Des Meme could have easily slapped you if they shot AP/ shot you at all. And later on when you saw the Venice run to the right you completely ignored his positioning in favour of the two targets spotted in from of you. Which ultimately gave you a good ol slap.

 

Other then the positing of your ship in response to potential threats, I have found nothing out of the ordinary in your gameplay. I do believe that was quite good. Maybe a Salem main will come along and trash you and your replay, but I personally think this was a very good performance.

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20 minuti fa, Srle_Vigilante ha scritto:

From my experience of shooting a lot of Americans (don't take this out of context :fish_palm:), you give way to much broadside. The Amagi in mid game or the Des Meme could have easily slapped you if they shot AP/ shot you at all. And later on when you saw the Venice run to the right you completely ignored his positioning in favour of the two targets spotted in from of you. Which ultimately gave you a good ol slap. 

Oh, yep (You are referring to the Baltimore, i'm sure, there was no Des Moines :D), But i wanted to put myself in a kiting position/angled one so i could bounce enemy's shells and shoot with my turrets. About Amagi, i'd say i could have bounced her shots pretty easily, and i had a heal left, so i was rather ok. At the end i totally didn't expect Venezia to slap me that way, no because i didn't know her AP was able to citadel me, but because i ignored/didn't take a look at her and i pushed kinda aggressively.

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Quite obvious heavy AP is it's main strenght by what you show there. I think it was quite enlightning for me - who struggles in such Cruisers - to see you setting fire to BB and then AP selling their extremity plating for amazing damage, disposing enemy BB with ease.

 

I used Mysore in Ops that way - no choice since that is the only ammo it has  - but i had no idea heavy AP could be that effective vs BB in PvP without citadels.

 

But it is also obvious it is poor versus DD, ( low ROF probably ) and this while presence of radar would lead one to believe it should hunt DD. So that is more a sort of support radar to help your allied DD.

 

Improve ? Lol i though that play and damage pretty impressive.....you probably improved my abilites in such US Cruisers now watching this in awe...:Smile_teethhappy:

 

Btw : it did give my plaesure fire bombing you earlier today :Smile-_tongue:

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Hey!

 

Sure mate, ill give my honest opinion and advice. Little disclaimer: Playstyle differs from player to player. What works for me, might not work for you and vice versa. ;)

 

Its for example funny how different you have specced your captain. But here you seem to forget that you have "Halsey" on your Salem. He gives a boost to turret traverse and ammo switching skills!

I always recommend taking these skills on DesMoines/Salem with Halsey equiped.

 

Priority Target

I tend to run PT on all my cruisers. It gives me vital information: Besides the current number of players aiming at you, an increase in this number might indicate people from across the map getting shots at you. Or it can indicate people flanking you. "Who is aiming at me and from where?" Noone aiming at you? "Free Damage Farm Mode Engaged". Either way, PT keeps me informed and on my toes.

 

Radio Location

I understand it is a useful skill. Remember however, it can work against you and give your position away as well. Smart enemy players might deduct your position once the "located" icon appears or disappears on their screen. At four points it seems rather costly for a radar equiped ship.

 

Survivability Expert

When you manage your HP well, those 3500 hit points are a rather poor trade for three skill points. Useful for DDs, useless for CAs.

 

Outnumbered

Too costly and too situational to warrant the buff.

image.thumb.png.64b8067958c0bf51d5b27f4c2128ea8d.png

 

Now to the match itself:

 

First the team lineups

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.0ddad69e65842af76d36ff213aef186a.png

Things that immediately stand out to me are...

No CV, means you can island camp.

No overmatch BBs, means you can bowtank to some extend.

Standard battle, so you do not need to camp near objectives in the middle of the map. No need to rush forward. Patient and steady.

 

At the start however, you immediately commit to a very aggressive position without proper spotting. This limits your adaptability and eliminates other possibilities of play.

Spoiler

image.png.bbe52018f9225b6a326441f965988253.png

What I always tend to do at the start of the game is take up a position where i can shoot at big targets from relative safety.

On this map, with the standard gamemode, it is common for DDs to go very wide. Going towards a very aggressive position with your short range radar therefore is probably less useful, than simply apply DPM.

 

This position as a starting point seems very useful. You can farm their BBs whilst they cant shoot you back and you have plenty of options: proceed forward, go mid or turn away to kite if they hard push you.

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.bc3a531d475b9a0fa9edabe1a4288f74.png

 

At 16:00 you reverse full broadside to potential devastating torps, why? Why not angle the other way around?

Spoiler

image.png.5e682ee17a38297b0769710aef1008c0.png

 

Besides, this position that youre playing seems very safe but is actually very vulnerable. Its success depends on your teammates a lot and we all know how that often goes. An enemy hydro ship or DD perma spotting you, while an Akizuki farms you is very dangerous for example. Again: It is the standard gamemode. No need to play hyper aggressive. Preserve your HP for lategame plays, when it matters. Playing a tad safe at the start while your teammates gather information. This gives you the opportunity to make a more calculated move.

 

AP usage is good, but you could have inflicted more damage if you would have used it more. The AP pen angles on Salem are fantastic. My rule of thumb is "Use HE to set sticky fires, otherwise mostly AP".

 

 

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Thnx arquata2019 !  I have still MUCH  to learn but your replay made these type Cruisers make sense to me : you can actually gun down BB with heavy AP, in an alarming rate without ( being able to ) citadelling them !!  :Smile_teethhappy:

 

All this time i used HE against BB.....and then these type Cruisers  do not work. It's obvious +5 % AP damage is a desirable skill for these US Cruisers.

 

First time these "buckets" even remotely worked for me !

 

 

usC.jpg

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I'm not sure about Range Mod on the Salem.

 

Sure, it could help doing some chip damage from safety at range, but because the ballistics are so bad, it's often useless against anything more agile. It also limits your ability to win bow-in confrontations at short range, to capitalize on radar (DDs and British CLs) and in general to deal damage in most circumstances.

If you take Halsey (faster turret traverse) and use RPF (your guns are less likely to be turned the wrong way), the turret traverse penalty from the Reload Mod isn't that important.

 

As for your game, pushing up in front of a Pommern was a very risky move: sure, she can't overmatch your bow, but you could've been torped and ended your game there. She also had a fair amount of backup, and you were so far ahead that all the enemies around would naturally focus on you.

 

I'm also skeptical about your decision to leave the Northern flank once the Pommern went down. You guys had 1 DD + 1 CA against 2 DDs up there, but instead of your using the Maerker's spotting and your "muscles" to clean up and then converge middle from a flanking position, you gave up, left the Thunderer unescorted, and came, where the enemy team actually had 2 overmatching BBs (Amagi and Montana) that could spell trouble for you.

By not cleaning up the North, you missed on an opportunity to crossfire the bulk of the enemy in the middle/West, and instead you got crossfired yourself by the Venezia eventually.

 

I mean, you won and you did good damage, but in most scenarios the best way to help the team is to spread out and gain map control for crossfire. Near the end of the match, you had 8 ships all crammed inside your own base or just outside of it: the enemy team kind of didn't know how to approach your "deathball", but most teams do.

 

Also, at the end you pushed into an obvious crossfire, but the game was most likely won, so I can't blame you for seeking more damage and xp.

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1 ora fa, GarrusBrutus ha scritto:

At 16:00 you reverse full broadside to potential devastating torps, why? Why not angle the other way around?

  Nascondi contenuti

 

Thanks for pointing out those things to me :D.

But, if i "bowed-in" the island, like a normal Des Moines (pointing the North side of the minimap, upper side of the minimap), what would've i been able to do if Pommern pushed me? Sure, i could've disable her torps if i was lucky. But otherwise what could've i done? If i reversed people from the other side of the map would have been able to shoot at me, and maybe citadel me.

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54 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

I'm not sure about Range Mod on the Salem.

In current meta it is the way to go. Then again, my DM is fitting with reload mod.

So I can play both without switching mods.

 

I fully agree with @GarrusBrutus captain build

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10 minutes ago, arquata2019 said:

Thanks for pointing out those things to me :D.

But, if i "bowed-in" the island, like a normal Des Moines (pointing the North side of the minimap, upper side of the minimap), what would've i been able to do if Pommern pushed me? Sure, i could've disable her torps if i was lucky. But otherwise what could've i done? If i reversed people from the other side of the map would have been able to shoot at me, and maybe citadel me.

Pommern has to either drop torps at point blank (in which case he dies very quickly by giving both you and your teammates broadside) or when he comes around the corner, at which point they're easily dodgeable by simply reversing.

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8 minuti fa, 159Hunter ha scritto:

In current meta it is the way to go. Then again, my DM is fitting with reload mod. 

So I can play both without switching mods.

 

I fully agree with @GarrusBrutus captain build

How do you play DM with only 15,8 km range? Because you can't switch radar for spotter xD, 15,8km is so short requiring you to push/have enemies pushing or stay stationary

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31 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

In current meta it is the way to go.

What is the current meta?

Dead Eye is gone, there are plenty of BB captains that get close and personal, and I've seen several games with over 8 cruisers per side, the kind of environment where the Salem's ability to heal HE damage in nose-in confrontations should be (carefully) exploited.

 

On the contrary, if you don't need IFA (I still take it, and my Salem captain is actually more of an Alaska captain, so Gun Feeder is a must), you could probably maximize your short-range firepower:

 

1264690807_Screenshotfrom2021-06-2119-55-07.png.ddaf06d63c2c66f5b80755e74b9e2011.png

 

In deer-in-the-headlights situations like the one the OP found himself in against the Pommern, that 8% faster reload can be decisive in sinking a BB before she can let off the salvo that kills you. It's a bit overpriced at 4 points, but it synergizes well with the superheal and the short-range radar, provided you pay attention to crossfires.

I wouldn't take Top Grade Gunner on your average kiter CA (IJN, French, Ita, etc.) unless I was going for a risky "lighthouse build", but the Salem is especially strong when fighting within her concealment radius. Together with the Reload Mod, we're looking at a 19% DPM buff.

 

Meanwhile, the extra fire chance is a bad deal, imho: for 2 points you get the same benefit as a single fire signal, and besides you should be using AP a lot. With the Salem's rate of fire, the limit to your fire-setting output isn't really the fire chance, rather the ability to hit and permafire the bow and stern section as well, after the easy fire on the center of mass. I mean, the fire chance helps, but I would say the bottleneck is your aiming vs these lazy shells.

 

Just my 2 cents. :Smile_honoring:

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25 minutes ago, arquata2019 said:

How do you play DM with only 15,8 km range? Because you can't switch radar for spotter xD, 15,8km is so short requiring you to push/have enemies pushing or stay stationary

You make sure you get in close, hope your team doesn't abandon you and hope the enemy is too afraid to push into you.

It works very well

12 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

What is the current meta?

Dead Eye is gone, there are plenty of BB captains that get close and personal, and I've seen several games with over 8 cruisers per side, the kind of environment where the Salem's ability to heal HE damage in nose-in confrontations should be (carefully) exploited.

It's not as if everyone is now in brawling range though. Sometimes that extra range can work, and since Salem radar is far less usufull than DM, you can hang back a bit more imo.

Nose in confrontations are to be avoided. An opponent who knows what he's doing will kill your turrrets quickly. They are pretty fragile.

 

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5 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

Nose in confrontations are to be avoided. An opponent who knows what he's doing will kill your turrrets quickly. They are pretty fragile. 

I don't think I've ever lost a turret in the Salem. Incapacitated, sure, but not permanently. It's not like she's a Jean Bart :Smile_teethhappy:

 

In the middle-to-late game going nose-in is often a very powerful move, as long as you make sure you're not going to be crossfired or overmatched (or you bait 16'' guns into shooting your belt).

Going for reload helps in particular during the late game. Range is nice to have, of course, but you can usually get closer anyway, while reload sometimes is a kill-or-get-killed perk, and it can be decisive in securing a DD kill, as well.

 

I'm just saying what works best for me: I even tried the AA mod to get the +2 flak bursts during Def AA, and I naturally tried Range as well, but I eventually settled on Reload and never looked back.

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3 hours ago, arquata2019 said:

So, i was reading today a post of @GarrusBrutus , where he said "Quickest way to improve is to let experienced players analyse your replays. That why you get a lot of valuable feedback, tips and tricks." I was thinking of how much useful would be if forumites would comment my replay of my Salem to see and tell me which things i did wrong, if i could've done better, some general tips, it's nice to go support other flank, and so on. So, the replay is here:

My Salem build :

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.d528840c1f7923c8723a6488c0ee2a40.pngimage.thumb.png.7c8f88ae33533d5ee5130ef6e36f2d17.png

Can i learn more in Salem, by forumites analyzing my replay? :D

20210621_163743_PASC710-Salem_50_Gold_harbor.wowsreplay

Play it like a DM

You hold positions better than DM thnx to super heal

So use islands, and expose on the bit necessary to get the guns to the enemy

 

 

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