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hocamdomdom

I can't decide between Marceau and Immelmann

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I do enjoy both CV and DD gameplay however I was quit playing French tech three at Fantasque because of horrible AA and turret traverse. Marceau doesnt have those but floaty shells concerns me. On the other hand Immelmann with high plane speed and damage potential, unique skip bombers fancies me. Also I am thinking with FDR and Hakuryu ban in CBs Immelmann will get more chance in competitve gameplay.

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marceu doesn't really have to floaty shells and is a great pick. Immelmann lacking game influence is still fun to play somewhat due to the unique bombs. I would say get Immelmann for the unique CV game play. Since it doesn't have rockets you don't have to deal with the new kind of bad rocket mechanics. 

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Marceau is pure speed and guns ROF........imagine a drive by shooting by gangsters......that is what Marceau does to enemy DD and even larger ships.  :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Floaty shell arcs do not matter if you audaciously race past them at short ranges and many DD die in the act of trying to torpedo you at short range. Launched torpedo's are often too slow to threaten you also. If i am not mistaken it has the reduced damage from shells French DD mechanic too because it has no smoke and it rather a large ship. Other then that is is an excellent remote/unguarded cap snatcher in ranked wich makes it very influential in lots of matches.....speed, speed, speed....and gun ROF. It that boat you need not fear Smalands if you do not make the mistake of fighting them at longer distances where the slow shells disadvantage you ...remember : close range drive by's obliterate other DD.... You tha O.G. gangsta !:Smile_teethhappy:

 

Immelman skip bombing is a fun new mechanic and it can damage or kil DD and Light cruisers very well at the first drop line or between the 1st and the 2nd ( the bombs jump very low ) The bombs however are not very powerful vs large ships and the torpedo's are neither. I like to compare it to Indomitable : support type damage, not the most poweful CV around and interchangable with a (Super)Cruiser's damage.

 

Marceau fun moment :  ( note my AA is OFF vs CV and the shells arcs at close range targets are flat enough to rip up any DD )

 

driveby.jpg

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I think they are both great.

 

Marceau shells do float but you can get used to them. The DPM combined with the saturation mechanics make it one of the best DD dog fighters. It also burns battleships at long range very quickly.

 

Max Immelmann is also very strong.

sieging with skip bombers avoiding the enemy ships mid range AA and fighters.

Its the best CV sniper  and can still hurt DDs.

 

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I don't own the Immelman but I mostly hear good things about it. As I love the french DD's, with the current rocket changes, speedtanking carriers is even more fun. The french are not plane killers, but damage avoiders as far as carriers go. As long as you make sure you're not too close to enemy guns when you get hunted by a carrier, you should be able to speedtank it to your hearts content. If you don't like open water gunboating speedtanking go for the Immelman. If you do like it, finish the french DD line first before picking up the Marceau to see if you like the playstyle. Marceau is them most fun one of them all.

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1 hour ago, hocamdomdom said:

I do enjoy both CV and DD gameplay however I was quit playing French tech three at Fantasque because of horrible AA and turret traverse. Marceau doesnt have those but floaty shells concerns me. On the other hand Immelmann with high plane speed and damage potential, unique skip bombers fancies me. Also I am thinking with FDR and Hakuryu ban in CBs Immelmann will get more chance in competitve gameplay.

Well what do you prefer?

Do you like a DD that's as fast af boi with insane DPM, good AP and is quite tanky?

Or a CV that's actually fun, with unique bombs, and your typical torps, memey secs (which I find useful late game), and its as tanky as your typical BB, but with the most insane fire mechanics and dmg control.

 

Influence wise

Marceau hunts DDs, can yolo BBs, can take on cruisers due to its AP pen and DPM (no its no Elbing, or Kleber, but it does have some decent pen, so at closer ranges you can deal some hefty dmg to them, plus the torps). So it does have a fair bit of influence

 

Immelmann is a damage farmer.

It has no AP rockets to balans cruisers, or AP bombs to balans BBs. So it loses the influence factor that the MvR had.

 

Both are equally fun, respective to their classes. 

I don't think either are OP (coz lower caliber AP, hard counters Fr DDs coz they are kinda thicc and no saturation to save them vs AP. And that plus the speed makes Marceau tanky, so losing that hurts Marceau, coz it doesn't have the best HP) and (Immelmann has no influence and skip bombs don't dmg anything with a lot of armor, apart from fires)

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14 minutes ago, totally_potato said:

that's MvR. Immelmann is kinda bad against DDs

Not true, I whack them all the time and find them better than rockets against DDs. Even before this patch.

 

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9 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Not true, I whack them all the time and find them better than rockets.

 

 

True, dropped at 1st line ( closest to the planes ) or bewteen 1st and 2nd line minding the spaced drop pattern of the bombs so one bomb is aimed directly at the DD you can practically drop right on top of them for very high damage.

 

No dive bomber can be more accurate then that....so one might better enjoyed it before the nerf ? :Smile_sceptic:

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The Immelmann might do well in slow, static, snipe-y games against large targets with strong AA you don't want to get close to, i.e. Clan Battles (I've barely played them, so take this with a grain of salt). She seems like a good damage farmer, but she probably doesn't have the biggest game impact, as a lot of her damage output is HE and fires.

 

The Marceau, on the hand, can be very influential even with a low damage output, as she's great at:

- murdering isolated DDs

- repositioning to harass BBs (you don't need to sink them, just to make them retreat from the caps and herd them into positions where you team can surround them and crossfire them) or go hunt the CV

- capping in the late game despite CV harassment: her AA is good enough, and the French damage saturation also helps

 

Imho poor range and poor ballistics mean she's not a very good open-water gunboat, unlike the tech tree line and Soviet DDs as well, but she's better at doing strategically important things.

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6 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Not true, I whack them all the time and find them better than rockets against DDs. Even before this patch.

 

Good for you then:Smile_medal:

I find the good DD players, avoiding the skip bombs, by just weaving between them. 

I find the torps on MvR bring me more DD kills and dmg on DDs in general. Even the good DD players kinda struggle to the avoid the torps thnx to their speed and spread.

Ig I am just a guy with the right name:Smile_veryhappy:

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3 minutes ago, totally_potato said:

Good for you then:Smile_medal:

I find the good DD players, avoiding the skip bombs, by just weaving between them. 

I find the torps on MvR bring me more DD kills and dmg on DDs in general. Even the good DD players kinda struggle to the avoid the torps thnx to their speed and spread.

Ig I am just a guy with the right name:Smile_veryhappy:

 

That is because these players have not learned yet to aim 1 bomb of the pattern at the DD at right-on-top-of-the-dd range and not all of them.....

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4 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

That is because these players have not learned yet to aim 1 bomb of the pattern at the DD at above-right-on-top-of-the-dd range and not all of them.....

I meant me here in the skip bomb hitting DD part

so yeah

Ig aiming with skip bombers are beyond my potato mind. But I do nuke a fair few cruisers (the ones with vodka in particular:Smile_playing:) and the BBs

I personally find the MvR torps way more consistent vs DDs, which even the above average IQ and skill DD find hard to dodge (let alone something like Elbing)

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15 minutes ago, totally_potato said:

I meant me here in the skip bomb hitting DD part

so yeah

Ig aiming with skip bombers are beyond my potato mind. But I do nuke a fair few cruisers (the ones with vodka in particular:Smile_playing:) and the BBs

I personally find the MvR torps way more consistent vs DDs, which even the above average IQ and skill DD find hard to dodge (let alone something like Elbing)

I remember being charged by a Halland in my Haku.

 

Couldn't land rockets for whatever reason so took the torps out and hit him with consecutive drops.

 

DDs are dodging all kinds of things but torps require a longer and more determined effort to avoid.

 

Skip bombers took me a long time to learn, I started off thinking the purchase was a mistake and then it clicked with me and:

Max Immelmann 10 Germany 254 64.17% 1 847 114 510 1.59 4.22 Details

 

 

I'm not a great player but something in this CV clicks with me, again after about 20 battles getting used to how to use these bombs.

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27 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

That is because these players have not learned yet to aim 1 bomb of the pattern at the DD at right-on-top-of-the-dd range and not all of them.....

I always aim with the centre line as it seems to give better vertical dispersion. 

 

It's the only line with  both a rise and fall so each bomb covers a slightly larger area then either the first or third line.

 

If a DD doesn't react, I would expect 2-3 hits. If a DD tries to dodge I would usually get one.

A good DD player, with only your planes to worry about, can dodge strikes fairly easily but the same goes for rockets really.

 

Third line is great for use against most targets, Stalingrad is a great target now they have no FP btw.

 

I rarely use first line if I can avoid it as dispersion is a little wonky, though probably still better than most dive bombs.

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3 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

I remember being charged by a Halland in my Haku.

 

Couldn't land rockets for whatever reason so took the torps out and hit him with consecutive drops.

 

DDs are dodging all kinds of things but torps require a longer and more determined effort to avoid.

 

Skip bombers took me a long time to learn, I started off thinking the purchase was a mistake and then it clicked with me and:

Max Immelmann 10 Germany 254 64.17% 1 847 114 510 1.59 4.22 Details

 

 

I'm not a great player but something in this CV clicks with me, again after about 20 battles getting used to how to use these bombs.

Haku torps are slow tho. MvR spread covers a fair area to hit the DD, and the torps are 20 knots faster

I sucked with them vs DDs at first, but I am a rather efficient DD killer with these torps. Probably even more so since the rocket rework

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1 minute ago, gopher31 said:

If a DD doesn't react, I would expect 2-3 hits. If a DD tries to dodge I would usually get one.

A good DD player, with only your planes to worry about, can dodge strikes fairly easily but the same goes for rockets really.

now? Yes

but before it was guarenteed dmg on a DD with rockets which is kinda infuriating in all honesty, coz losing 4k at the beginning literally throws that 3 points on SE out of the window.

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BTW Immelmann is also the best CV sniper.

 

I will kill a CV with two squadrons, three if it reacts.

CV long dam con and short fires work against them with an Immelmann!

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I was in the same situation and I chose Marceau because Soviet CVs are announced and they may utilize skip bombers better than Immelmann. We'll just wait and see.

 

On the other hand, I got Marceau and it has been very great. Especially in Grand Battles against super battleships she does great. May not be easy to play if you are unfamiliar with French DDs, but she's a must have ship if you ask me. 

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2 minutes ago, totally_potato said:

Haku torps are slow tho. MvR spread covers a fair area to hit the DD, and the torps are 20 knots faster

I sucked with them vs DDs at first, but I am a rather efficient DD killer with these torps. Probably even more so since the rocket rework

Haku torps at 50 knots, MVR are 55.

 

Could you be thinking of the Midway?

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38 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Haku torps at 50 knots, MVR are 55.

 

Could you be thinking of the Midway?

oh yeah nvm. That's midway. I am so trash, I just played a match in Haku and I forgot:Smile_facepalm:

I meant they carry only 2 in a super narrow spread, which can be avoided, while MvR spread is not too wide, not too narrow

Somehow confused Midway and Haku torps KEKW

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